Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[shmadz]

Bitcoin is simply a mechanism to allow transparency.

[Adrian-x]

Fiat is *designed* to lose value over time.  That's what discourages hoarding and encourages investing.  Who but in idiot would invest in a business that earns 10% a year, when one could get more by simply keeping his money in a mattress?  (The Bitcoiner's Dream)  Fiat is not intended to be a good store of value.

Regardless of Bitcoin's claim to be a good store of value, over the last year Bitcoin has really been losing it--even when measured in USD!  And since we both agree that fiat is utter shit store of value, how shit does that make Bitcoin?

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year? oh yes I forgot they are, and the poor suckers at the bottom who earn those inflating dollars last pay the highest price, gosh I love systems that propagate poverty.  

[NotLambchop]

Fiat is *designed* to lose value over time.  That's what discourages hoarding and encourages investing.  Who but in idiot would invest in a business that earns 10% a year, when one could get more by simply keeping his money in a mattress?  (The Bitcoiner's Dream)  Fiat is not intended to be a good store of value.

Regardless of Bitcoin's claim to be a good store of value, over the last year Bitcoin has really been losing it--even when measured in USD!  And since we both agree that fiat is utter shit store of value, how shit does that make Bitcoin?

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year? oh yes I forgot they are, and the poor suckers at the bottom who earn those inflating dollars last pay the highest price, gosh I love systems that propagate poverty.  

What makes you think you're entitled to hoard while others starve?
The "poor suckers" live from paycheck to paycheck (if that), there's no excess to "save."
It's the sorta-rich fuckers who bitch about inflation and taxes.

But guess what, rich wannabe?  The real rich are smarter and shrewder than you, I'm afraid you'll have to resign yourself to a life of mediocrity

[mymenace]

Fiat is *designed* to lose value over time.  That's what discourages hoarding and encourages investing.  Who but in idiot would invest in a business that earns 10% a year, when one could get more by simply keeping his money in a mattress?  (The Bitcoiner's Dream)  Fiat is not intended to be a good store of value.

Regardless of Bitcoin's claim to be a good store of value, over the last year Bitcoin has really been losing it--even when measured in USD!  And since we both agree that fiat is utter shit store of value, how shit does that make Bitcoin?

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year? oh yes I forgot they are, and the poor suckers at the bottom who earn those inflating dollars last pay the highest price, gosh I love systems that propagate poverty.  

What makes you think you're entitled to hoard while others starve?
The "poor suckers" live from paycheck to paycheck (if that), there's no excess to "save."
It's the sorta-rich fuckers who bitch about inflation and taxes.

But guess what, rich wannabe?  The real rich are smarter and shrewder than you, I'm afraid you'll have to resign yourself to a life of mediocrity

what is forex trading?

bitcoin shit store of value

that means the initial investment 4 years ago is crap

 is 4 years a good short term investment?

[NewLiberty]

An article published several years ago told how Brock Pierce built a billion-dollar company that cornered the market of virtual money and other virtual goods from some computer game (IIRC, World of Warchraft).  He got partners in China who set up "mines" of  those virtual goods.  They had umpteen Chinese workers playing the game all day long, stopping only to eat and sleep on the premises.  His company collapsed when regular players of the game sued it, claiming that their gaming experience was ruined because those Chinese miners were everywhere in the game, and cared only about collecting stuff.

I just remembered that from the news. This was before Bitcoin wasn't it?

Edit: http://boingboing.net/2007/11/15/goldfarming-empire-l.html

Yes, but I was thinking of this two-part Wired article:
The Decline and Fall of an Ultra Rich Online Gaming Empire
http://archive.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/16-12/ff_ige?currentPage=all

A Drive Through Laurel Canyon With Brock Pierce
http://archive.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/16-12/ff_ige_pierce

Protest lack of democracy in China, get sent to jail and be forced to play World of Warcraft,
If you don't make your quota of Warcraft gold, you get beat up with a plastic pipe.
True story:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

[JorgeStolfi]

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year?

There is no recipe for immortality, no monument that will neer become a ruin, no cellphone battery that will last forever.   No store of value is totally risk- and loss-free, including bitcoin.  Life just sucks.

Bitcoin wasn't even designed to be such a thing: "non-inflationary", in the technical sense of having a fixed money supply, does not guarantee preservation of value.

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent.  Then you do not need to speculate; even if you hold the thing for decades, you may get the ful value of your investment back, and some more. But of course you may have bad luck and stock on some Enron or WorldCom.  That risk is increased if you are too greedy, and look for higher returns rather than solidity.  You must keep watch, and be ready to switch if it seems that the company is faltering.  You can also invest indirectly in investment funds, and trade some of the returns for the convenience and risk reduction.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[noobtrader]

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year?

There is no recipe for immortality, no monument that will neer become a ruin, no cellphone battery that will last forever.   No store of value is totally risk- and loss-free, including bitcoin.  Life just sucks.

Bitcoin wasn't even designed to be such a thing: "non-inflationary", in the technical sense of having a fixed money supply, does not guarantee preservation of value.

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent.  Then you do not need to speculate; even if you hold the thing for decades, you may get the ful value of your investment back, and some more. But of course you may have bad luck and stock on some Enron or WorldCom.  That risk is increased if you are too greedy, and look for higher returns rather than solidity.  You must keep watch, and be ready to switch if it seems that the company is faltering.  You can also invest indirectly in investment funds, and trade some of the returns for the convenience and risk reduction.

or......

you can buy bitcoin and put it on swap @ bitfinex and receive yield just like stock and it will be ultra risky and ultra reward type of investment...

BTW :
next event, FBI sales of bitcorn and black friday...  bearish to 300

[empowering]

how does one save if one is always forced to speculate on the market, or are 10% profits guaranteed every year?

There is no recipe for immortality, no monument that will neer become a ruin, no cellphone battery that will last forever.   No store of value is totally risk- and loss-free, including bitcoin.  Life just sucks.

Bitcoin wasn't even designed to be such a thing: "non-inflationary", in the technical sense of having a fixed money supply, does not guarantee preservation of value.

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent.  Then you do not need to speculate; even if you hold the thing for decades, you may get the ful value of your investment back, and some more. But of course you may have bad luck and stock on some Enron or WorldCom.  That risk is increased if you are too greedy, and look for higher returns rather than solidity.  You must keep watch, and be ready to switch if it seems that the company is faltering.  You can also invest indirectly in investment funds, and trade some of the returns for the convenience and risk reduction.

or you can have a crazed monkey fling darts at a dartboard and pick your stocks and investments that way..... just sayin

[Richy_T]

Are there fully working Bitcoin wallets for Android, iOS and Windows Phone (true trustless wallet with sending capabilities)?

Maybe this is what you want.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

I don't think it would be realistic to run the full blockchain on a phone so the kind of wallet he is thinking of would have to talk back to a version of the bitcoin client running on a computer you control. I suspect this one, like Mycelium, talks to a server hosting the blockchain.

(Though with Mycelium, at least, the transaction signing does occur on the phone so it should be safe for certain values of safe)

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Richy_T]

The best you can do is invest in things that actually produce valuable goods or services, such as stocks of solid companies, or real estate that you can rent. 

Not even that. The presses have been running and these things are in a bubble (in the case of real estate, still in a bubble since the last one was not allowed to deflate as was needed). There is really no great place to put money right now. Possibly food & ammunition.

[mymenace]

Are there fully working Bitcoin wallets for Android, iOS and Windows Phone (true trustless wallet with sending capabilities)?

Maybe this is what you want.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

I don't think it would be realistic to run the full blockchain on a phone so the kind of wallet he is thinking of would have to talk back to a version of the bitcoin client running on a computer you control. I suspect this one, like Mycelium, talks to a server hosting the blockchain.

(Though with Mycelium, at least, the transaction signing does occur on the phone so it should be safe for certain values of safe)

https://www.circle.com

http://www.coindesk.com/circle-launches-mobile-apps-ios-android/

US only at the moment and the best thing is your btc is insured

[janos666]

Are there fully working Bitcoin wallets for Android, iOS and Windows Phone (true trustless wallet with sending capabilities)?

Maybe this is what you want.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

I don't think it would be realistic to run the full blockchain on a phone so the kind of wallet he is thinking of would have to talk back to a version of the bitcoin client running on a computer you control. I suspect this one, like Mycelium, talks to a server hosting the blockchain.

(Though with Mycelium, at least, the transaction signing does occur on the phone so it should be safe for certain values of safe)

Yes, I checked the linked software. It seems to be a web wallet with an offline GUI.
Does the Android version of Mycelium work the same way as the PC version?

@mymenace - This is not even in the ballpark.

[Chef Ramsay]

Nice morning bullish spike on Houbi. By the time I get up later it'll be interesting to see which way the wind is blowing here.

[Richy_T]

Are there fully working Bitcoin wallets for Android, iOS and Windows Phone (true trustless wallet with sending capabilities)?

Maybe this is what you want.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

I don't think it would be realistic to run the full blockchain on a phone so the kind of wallet he is thinking of would have to talk back to a version of the bitcoin client running on a computer you control. I suspect this one, like Mycelium, talks to a server hosting the blockchain.

(Though with Mycelium, at least, the transaction signing does occur on the phone so it should be safe for certain values of safe)

Yes, I checked the linked software. It seems to be a web wallet with an offline GUI.
Does the Android version of Mycelium work the same way as the PC version?

@mymenace - This is not even in the ballpark.

I was not aware of a PC version. On the Android version, it relies on a server to process the blockchain but the keys are kept entirely on the local phone.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[macsga]

In modern times, BTC instead of gold should do it. Funny that J.P. Morgan stated that back then...

[janos666]

Are there fully working Bitcoin wallets for Android, iOS and Windows Phone (true trustless wallet with sending capabilities)?

Maybe this is what you want.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

I don't think it would be realistic to run the full blockchain on a phone so the kind of wallet he is thinking of would have to talk back to a version of the bitcoin client running on a computer you control. I suspect this one, like Mycelium, talks to a server hosting the blockchain.

(Though with Mycelium, at least, the transaction signing does occur on the phone so it should be safe for certain values of safe)

Yes, I checked the linked software. It seems to be a web wallet with an offline GUI.
Does the Android version of Mycelium work the same way as the PC version?

@mymenace - This is not even in the ballpark.

I was not aware of a PC version. On the Android version, it relies on a server to process the blockchain but the keys are kept entirely on the local phone.

May be because it doesn't exist. Sorry, my bad.
My knowledge regarding the actual wallet softwares was full of gaps. I read a paper about the possible implementations which mentioned some existing wallets by their names as examples for the possible wallet types. Thus, I read about how Bitcoin "Core", Mycelium or BlockChain.info work and I knew the "Core" is way too big of a snack for current smarthones but I missed that little detail about Mycelium that it's a smartphone wallet (it not only exists for Android but it doesn't even have a desktop version at all). I thought even this kind of wallet is yet to be implemented for smartphones but it's available already. Good to know.
(This happened because I can easily afford to use the Core version at home but I can't really make use of a smartphone wallet anyway.)


@macsga

Isn't that quote goes more like: "Gold is money and nothing else."?