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Author Topic: [ANN] Bancor | Protocol for Smart-tokens, solving the liquidity problem  (Read 367636 times)
Razaberry
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June 01, 2017, 04:16:16 AM
 #901

We already have token platforms like ETH or WAVE.
Do you have a good reason for using Bancor instead?

So far, nobody could answer my legit question

Copy-pasted from an answer on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bancor/comments/6dpmhm/bancor_vs_waves/

it is very possible for both Bancor and Waves to thrive as they only compete on some aspect of their use cases, and are potentially complimentary so long as both ETH & Waves blockchains thrive.

Their competitive aspect lies in the fact that both Bancor & Waves aim to be the creation medium behind a whole slew of new tokens representing countless new types of value.

Bancor has two major differences to Waves here:

The first is that Bancor tokens are fully liquid from day one. So even if its some tiny token that never aims to become worth millions or be traded on a large scale... it's still always immediately exchangeable for any other coin or token on the entire Bancor network (including ETH and every major ERC20 token)

Waves has their decentralized exchange, of course, but it still requires that you find a second party to trade with, which rules out small-market-cap tokens.

The second is that Bancor is build on Ethereum tech. At the moment, that means we're backed by a more developed & successful blockchain, and therefore have a larger set of currencies and of users to launch with.

However should Waves succeed and become a widely used blockchain of tokens, the two can indirectly collaborate. Tokens on both Ethereum and Waves blockchains can be 1:1 tokenized for each other. Waves Token backed ERC20 tokens could use the Bancor network for liquidity & as reserve tokens.

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June 01, 2017, 06:19:02 AM
 #902

Hey, i got a question. Does anybody participated in pre-sale on https://www.bitcoinsuisse.ch/bancor/ ? I've just checked the site and there is a lot of things you have to do to register.

Just wonder how it works excatly - you send them fiat and have a guaranteed BANCOR tokens form ICO?
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June 01, 2017, 07:03:01 AM
 #903

Hey, i got a question. Does anybody participated in pre-sale on https://www.bitcoinsuisse.ch/bancor/ ? I've just checked the site and there is a lot of things you have to do to register.

Just wonder how it works excatly - you send them fiat and have a guaranteed BANCOR tokens form ICO?

the company organized participation of the crowd in the initial offering, it gives the majority the opportunity to purchase  holding in 10-15 minutes.

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June 01, 2017, 09:09:09 AM
 #904

We already have token platforms like ETH or WAVE.
Do you have a good reason for using Bancor instead?

So far, nobody could answer my legit question

Copy-pasted from an answer on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bancor/comments/6dpmhm/bancor_vs_waves/

it is very possible for both Bancor and Waves to thrive as they only compete on some aspect of their use cases, and are potentially complimentary so long as both ETH & Waves blockchains thrive.

Their competitive aspect lies in the fact that both Bancor & Waves aim to be the creation medium behind a whole slew of new tokens representing countless new types of value.

Bancor has two major differences to Waves here:

The first is that Bancor tokens are fully liquid from day one. So even if its some tiny token that never aims to become worth millions or be traded on a large scale... it's still always immediately exchangeable for any other coin or token on the entire Bancor network (including ETH and every major ERC20 token)

Waves has their decentralized exchange, of course, but it still requires that you find a second party to trade with, which rules out small-market-cap tokens.

The second is that Bancor is build on Ethereum tech. At the moment, that means we're backed by a more developed & successful blockchain, and therefore have a larger set of currencies and of users to launch with.

However should Waves succeed and become a widely used blockchain of tokens, the two can indirectly collaborate. Tokens on both Ethereum and Waves blockchains can be 1:1 tokenized for each other. Waves Token backed ERC20 tokens could use the Bancor network for liquidity & as reserve tokens.

Thank you Razzaberry. Very nice way to put it, rather than speculating on what's different.

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June 01, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
 #905

Dear group,

we are proud to announce another important partnership to help spread complementary currencies around the world and bring the blockchain revolution to main street!

Bancor has just partnered with Qoin, one of the pioneers of community currencies. Together we will deploy smart tokens around the world and make a real difference in local economies.
https://blog.bancor.network/bancor-and-qoin-partner-to-deliver-platform-for-community-currencies-52f43abfd572


This is great news I also hope Bancor will have bright future. I hope upcoming ICO will be helpful to raise huge funds to keep continue develop this services. Bancor has great concept with functional platform.
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June 01, 2017, 09:14:55 AM
 #906

We already have token platforms like ETH or WAVE.
Do you have a good reason for using Bancor instead?

So far, nobody could answer my legit question

Copy-pasted from an answer on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bancor/comments/6dpmhm/bancor_vs_waves/

it is very possible for both Bancor and Waves to thrive as they only compete on some aspect of their use cases, and are potentially complimentary so long as both ETH & Waves blockchains thrive.

Their competitive aspect lies in the fact that both Bancor & Waves aim to be the creation medium behind a whole slew of new tokens representing countless new types of value.

Bancor has two major differences to Waves here:

The first is that Bancor tokens are fully liquid from day one. So even if its some tiny token that never aims to become worth millions or be traded on a large scale... it's still always immediately exchangeable for any other coin or token on the entire Bancor network (including ETH and every major ERC20 token)

Waves has their decentralized exchange, of course, but it still requires that you find a second party to trade with, which rules out small-market-cap tokens.

The second is that Bancor is build on Ethereum tech. At the moment, that means we're backed by a more developed & successful blockchain, and therefore have a larger set of currencies and of users to launch with.

However should Waves succeed and become a widely used blockchain of tokens, the two can indirectly collaborate. Tokens on both Ethereum and Waves blockchains can be 1:1 tokenized for each other. Waves Token backed ERC20 tokens could use the Bancor network for liquidity & as reserve tokens.

Thank you Razzaberry. Very nice way to put it, rather than speculating on what's different.

The way BAT was scooped up in 30 seconds yesterday, do you think Bancor would face the same fate? In that case, investors will have to very prepared, or be left with nothing...  Embarrassed

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June 01, 2017, 09:19:14 AM
 #907

We already have token platforms like ETH or WAVE.
Do you have a good reason for using Bancor instead?

So far, nobody could answer my legit question

Copy-pasted from an answer on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bancor/comments/6dpmhm/bancor_vs_waves/

it is very possible for both Bancor and Waves to thrive as they only compete on some aspect of their use cases, and are potentially complimentary so long as both ETH & Waves blockchains thrive.

Their competitive aspect lies in the fact that both Bancor & Waves aim to be the creation medium behind a whole slew of new tokens representing countless new types of value.

Bancor has two major differences to Waves here:

The first is that Bancor tokens are fully liquid from day one. So even if its some tiny token that never aims to become worth millions or be traded on a large scale... it's still always immediately exchangeable for any other coin or token on the entire Bancor network (including ETH and every major ERC20 token)

Waves has their decentralized exchange, of course, but it still requires that you find a second party to trade with, which rules out small-market-cap tokens.

The second is that Bancor is build on Ethereum tech. At the moment, that means we're backed by a more developed & successful blockchain, and therefore have a larger set of currencies and of users to launch with.

However should Waves succeed and become a widely used blockchain of tokens, the two can indirectly collaborate. Tokens on both Ethereum and Waves blockchains can be 1:1 tokenized for each other. Waves Token backed ERC20 tokens could use the Bancor network for liquidity & as reserve tokens.

Thank you Razzaberry. Very nice way to put it, rather than speculating on what's different.

The way BAT was scooped up in 30 seconds yesterday, do you think Bancor would face the same fate? In that case, investors will have to very prepared, or be left with nothing...  Embarrassed

There was not a topic in the Forum of the bat . Icetracker heard from investors, although it's interesting that not only end in 30 seconds . BANCOR' s ICO now it will be good to explain the history.

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cormacoin
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June 01, 2017, 11:49:12 AM
 #908

Anyone manage to apply for the Bitcoin Suisse sale? I've applied and received the bank details but they didn't supply a reference number for the Sepa transfer (intending to pay in euro). How will they know my transaction comes from me without a reference? Also, I applied to purchase (for example) 500 euro worth assuming that the fees would be calculated afterwards and I would pay separately. Does anyone know if I can send, lets say the 600-ish euro that would cover the the amount in tokens I want plus the Bitcoin Suisse fees? I'm worried sending more than my original application states will confuse things since my application would read 500 (numbers are just for illustration). I've emailled them but haven't received a reply yet, I'm sure they're up to their eyes at the moment.
Would appreciate if anyone with knowledge could help on this one. Thanks!
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June 01, 2017, 12:14:22 PM
 #909

Is there any update on the starting date of the ICO? Would like to be prepared for this one, looks really interesting  Cool
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June 01, 2017, 02:49:29 PM
 #910

Bancor Protocol website in Filipino coming soon!
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June 01, 2017, 02:54:54 PM
 #911

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFuiS2hc9j8










.
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June 01, 2017, 03:50:25 PM
 #912

Is there any update on the starting date of the ICO? Would like to be prepared for this one, looks really interesting  Cool

Based on ICO calendar it will open on June 15.
blakeh
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June 01, 2017, 03:57:37 PM
 #913

The BitcoinSuisse seems pretty crazy for fees.
Flat 100 CHF ($138 CAD) + 1.5%

Not to mention the crazy information required.

Pass...

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June 01, 2017, 04:03:03 PM
 #914

The BitcoinSuisse seems pretty crazy for fees.
Flat 100 CHF ($138 CAD) + 1.5%

Not to mention the crazy information required.

Pass...

Mostly users who are interested to invest via BTC than The BitcoinSuisse is best choice for them as well as it offering facility to use fiat too. If you think conversion pretty high than wait for main ICO round.
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June 01, 2017, 05:27:16 PM
 #915

The BitcoinSuisse seems pretty crazy for fees.
Flat 100 CHF ($138 CAD) + 1.5%

Not to mention the crazy information required.

Pass...

Mostly users who are interested to invest via BTC than The BitcoinSuisse is best choice for them as well as it offering facility to use fiat too. If you think conversion pretty high than wait for main ICO round.

What do you mean? I don't think there will be fees for ETH/BTC investment in ICO. And unless you invest 100 000$ than 100CHF flat fee is in fact crazy.
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June 01, 2017, 05:33:56 PM
 #916


Quote
Does the Bancor protocol price discovery mechanism add to the price
volatility, compared to crypto-exchanges?
On the contrary. By holding a reserve balance which preserves a constant ratio to the
market-cap, the price volatility of smart tokens is not subject to the current market depth
since the reserve functions as a predictable and controlled alternative to the traditional
order book which normally provides market depth. We’ve seen that regular exchanges
generally hold around 1% market depth, meaning that any smart token with a CRR above
1% could be relatively more

This is total BS! According to your own formula, at 1% fractional reserve, changing supply by 1% will change the price by 150%. Is not this volatile??? Yeah right, the formula for price change is deterministic, but a trade is a random event, and any function of random event is a random variable. With low fractional reserve your tokens are going to be as volatile as any low volume tokens on exchanges.



Okay, what would happen if, say, someone bought 1% of the supply of Bitcoin? That would be a ~$370 Million USD purchase.

I imagine that too would change the BTC price in a volatile way. Any 1% purchase/liquidation of any currency would.

Exactly. Then what's a point in your token if it is not any different?

Edit: and by the way, $300M is about a daily trade volume for bitcoin, and it does not change bitcont price by 150%. Your token is actually not going to be like bitcoin, with low fractional reserve it is going to be same as  those illiquid and highly volatile tokens out there.


There's a big difference between a daily trading volume of 1% and someone either buying or selling 1%. You know this. My argument holds, because ANY currency which experiences a 1% buy/sell will experience huge fluctuation as a result.

The point of the BNT token is simple: to be the default reserve currency of smart tokens on the Bancor network, tying them all together so that all token-changers work as one (so you can exchange any currency for any other) and so that a raise in value of any token on the network raises the value of BNT and therefore of every token holding BNT in reserve. As for Bancor being the same as a illiquid token, it will be liquid for ETH from day 1.

Holding a fractional reserve token in reserve? Are you kidding me??? Who in good mind will do this?

.
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June 01, 2017, 07:34:38 PM
 #917


Quote
Does the Bancor protocol price discovery mechanism add to the price
volatility, compared to crypto-exchanges?
On the contrary. By holding a reserve balance which preserves a constant ratio to the
market-cap, the price volatility of smart tokens is not subject to the current market depth
since the reserve functions as a predictable and controlled alternative to the traditional
order book which normally provides market depth. We’ve seen that regular exchanges
generally hold around 1% market depth, meaning that any smart token with a CRR above
1% could be relatively more

This is total BS! According to your own formula, at 1% fractional reserve, changing supply by 1% will change the price by 150%. Is not this volatile??? Yeah right, the formula for price change is deterministic, but a trade is a random event, and any function of random event is a random variable. With low fractional reserve your tokens are going to be as volatile as any low volume tokens on exchanges.



Okay, what would happen if, say, someone bought 1% of the supply of Bitcoin? That would be a ~$370 Million USD purchase.

I imagine that too would change the BTC price in a volatile way. Any 1% purchase/liquidation of any currency would.

Exactly. Then what's a point in your token if it is not any different?

Edit: and by the way, $300M is about a daily trade volume for bitcoin, and it does not change bitcont price by 150%. Your token is actually not going to be like bitcoin, with low fractional reserve it is going to be same as  those illiquid and highly volatile tokens out there.


There's a big difference between a daily trading volume of 1% and someone either buying or selling 1%. You know this. My argument holds, because ANY currency which experiences a 1% buy/sell will experience huge fluctuation as a result.

The point of the BNT token is simple: to be the default reserve currency of smart tokens on the Bancor network, tying them all together so that all token-changers work as one (so you can exchange any currency for any other) and so that a raise in value of any token on the network raises the value of BNT and therefore of every token holding BNT in reserve. As for Bancor being the same as a illiquid token, it will be liquid for ETH from day 1.

Holding a fractional reserve token in reserve? Are you kidding me??? Who in good mind will do this?


I dont think you should look at the tokens as fractional reserves, the reserve is merely a tool for liquidity and usually when speaking about fractional reserve the reserve is the thing that gives the value to the coin which in this case it isnt. its just the market depth for liquidity in this case or atleast thats how i see it from what i read

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June 01, 2017, 07:53:07 PM
 #918


I dont think you should look at the tokens as fractional reserves, the reserve is merely a tool for liquidity and usually when speaking about fractional reserve the reserve is the thing that gives the value to the coin which in this case it isnt. its just the market depth for liquidity in this case or atleast thats how i see it from what i read

Collateralized token is very nice thing which has a number of use cases and reserve can provide some liquidity, which will depend on its size. You can manage liquidity with a smart contract by keeping constant CRR, or you could use this reserve to put buy/sell orders on exchange and manage it with a trading bot, the result would be the same. But saying that 1% of reserve will make a token fully liquid is a complete bullshit. Also, if token B is backed by token A at fractional CRR, it does not make sense to use token B as reserve for token C instead of using token A. This is an infinite money multiplier.

.
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June 01, 2017, 11:43:47 PM
 #919


I dont think you should look at the tokens as fractional reserves, the reserve is merely a tool for liquidity and usually when speaking about fractional reserve the reserve is the thing that gives the value to the coin which in this case it isnt. its just the market depth for liquidity in this case or atleast thats how i see it from what i read

Collateralized token is very nice thing which has a number of use cases and reserve can provide some liquidity, which will depend on its size. You can manage liquidity with a smart contract by keeping constant CRR, or you could use this reserve to put buy/sell orders on exchange and manage it with a trading bot, the result would be the same. But saying that 1% of reserve will make a token fully liquid is a complete bullshit. Also, if token B is backed by token A at fractional CRR, it does not make sense to use token B as reserve for token C instead of using token A. This is an infinite money multiplier.
You are free to continue to the chain of CRR: Token A backed by ETH, Token B backed by Token A, Token C backed by Token B and so on. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. However, the real value of a token comes from its utility, not from the reserve alone. If people don't think your coin has any utility, you can keep issuing them but no one other than you will buy into it. However, if you're able to create a long-chain economy of tokens, then there's nothing stopping them from going on a long-chain reserve as well.
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June 02, 2017, 12:40:30 AM
 #920

Could someone tell me  should I post here after I join Bitcointalk Bounties signature and avatar?

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