Buying BFL debt. $0.10 per dollar owed.

[Frankie Delaney]

So I can go get a refund for 100% of my order value in USD from BFL or I can get 1/10 from you? People were paying more for pirate money 1 month after he closed down -.-

Try again once BFL stops giving refunds and stopped communicating for weeks and you might have better luck! If BFL turns out to be a scam the whole plan is so elaborate that even Dr. Evil would be impressed. Like really, they make a an actual ASIC and claim it turned out bad so they can string everyone along to collect more preorders? Brilliant scam! Since you know there is very little doubt that they actually have a working ASIC, it's performance just isn't where it was expected to be.

BFL will start shipping sometime in the future  , if they were in the gaming industry they could have borrowed "soon" from a blizzard entertainment timeline.
 

Nobody is forcing you to take my offer, nobody is forcing you to request a refund. The day will come when your refund request from BFL hasn't shown up for a month, and you start considering my offer.


When it does, i'll be there. You believe you'll make your profit from BFL shipping a functional product, i don't believe that is a possiblity. If it does happen, i will profit in the same manner, but as a contingency, i have this thread. This is the first offer to buy debt owed by a defunct company, the operators of which i have information and means to litigate against.

If you believe they will ship, keep your order. if you believe they won't, request a refund. When that fails, i'm option three with the bitcoin to ensure you see SOME refund.

Stop it with your logic and reason already, just give the man your money

Incase you missed it, I am the only one prepared to give anybody money at this point.

[1714845965]

1714845965

[1714845965]

1714845965

[Frankie Delaney]

Bruno and smoothie, don't you find it odd that, even as an obvious sock puppet, OP has spent his entire time on the forums bashing BFL, now only to want to buy in? Might that be interpreted by some as an attempt to spread FUD for profit?

Fuck me, right. I am both a company shill and detractor. Angry customer with sunk costs is completely out of the question. I must simultaneously be both the company and the competition. Prepared to scam people by paying them money.

[jspielberg]

Incase you missed it, I am the only one prepared to give anybody money at this point.

Well... other than BFL... but like you said.  I requested my refund from BFL a couple of weeks back and it was still honored.

When that well dries up, in all seriousness, I think you are smart to get out in front of this.

[rograz]

Nobody is forcing you to take my offer, nobody is forcing you to request a refund. The day will come when your refund request from BFL hasn't shown up for a month, and you start considering my offer.

Still doesn't change the fact that today under current conditions your post is a waste of server storage since it offers nothing and is completely pointless.

It would be like me offering to buy Apple shares at 20 USD each and saying that the day will come when you thanked me for this offer!

[Matthew N. Wright]

Fuck me, right. I am both a company shill and detractor. Angry customer with sunk costs is completely out of the question. I must simultaneously be both the company and the competition. Prepared to scam people by paying them money.

That was a pretty lazy response if you ask me. When you offer people pennies on the dollar for something that they can get a dollar for on the dollar and something you've spent your entire post history decrying as a scam, it looks shady to say the least.

You pretend to promote skepticism by attacking others for not doing their due diligence in matters, but once people bring your own intentions into question your response is as predictably insincere as any other reactionary sockpuppet would be.

Your claim to righteousness based on a *future* offer has no validity, as you are offering it *now*. When the time comes that BFL has gone bankrupt and can't refund anyone for anything, is anyone supposed to believe the sockpuppet that spent his entire post history warning of BFL being a scam is going to pay anything just because he made a vague offer to do so a while back? Or is it more likely he'll just never log in again?

There are benefits to remaining anonymous-- you get to dodge responsibilities and never need to face consequences for your actions. The downside of being anonymous is, you'll never be able to argue your legitimacy when someone claims that you're just looking for sucker newbies to fleece by spreading FUD.

Can't have it both ways.

[repentance]

Motives aside, I'm not sure how the OP can't lose money on this.

If he buys people's BFL "debt" now and BFL delivers, they're going to deliver to the people who ordered the units, not the OP.

If BFL gets to the point where they start refusing refunds, then it's unlikely they'll have any assets which can be recovered by unsecured creditors in a lawsuit.  I'm not even sure about how customers would go about legally assigning their interest in a "debt" which isn't yet due (it's not a debt until such time as a refund request isn't honoured).

What's to stop someone from selling their BFL debt to the OP now and getting a refund from BFL or taking delivery of their unit and making themselves and easy 10%?  BFL's under no obligation to honour any agreements made between their customers and third parties in respect of ASIC orders.

How is the OP even going to confirm that someone hasn't already cancelled their order and received a refund?  I seriously doubt BFL is going to share such information with the OP.

[Frankie Delaney]

Nobody is forcing you to take my offer, nobody is forcing you to request a refund. The day will come when your refund request from BFL hasn't shown up for a month, and you start considering my offer.

Still doesn't change the fact that today under current conditions your post is a waste of server storage since it offers nothing and is completely pointless.

It would be like me offering to buy Apple shares at 20 USD each and saying that the day will come when you thanked me for this offer!

Other than the fact that a $1500 investment in apple right now nets you shares in apple.

Your claim to righteousness based on a *future* offer has no validity, as you are offering it *now*. When the time comes that BFL has gone bankrupt and can't refund anyone for anything, is anyone supposed to believe the sockpuppet that spent his entire post history warning of BFL being a scam to pay anything or likely just never log in again?

But what i claim is not based on the future. It's based on what i believe to be the currently veiled present. The easiest way to disagree is to ignore me.

There are benefits to remaining anonymous-- you get to dodge responsibilities and never need to face consequences for your actions, like people like myself do on a regular basis. The downside of being anonymous is, you'll never be able to argue your legitimacy.

I guess the alternative would be just to post my passport, and assume people will ignore my most recent scam, also still dodging responsibilities and still never facing consequences. What fucking legitimacy do you have? had you won your bet, what lengths would you have gone to to ensure you were paid? how many would suffer for you to collect? I remain semi-anonymous for my own personal safety, but even that has to be a step above known scammer. I registered with my own name in the interest of a complete public identity should it be required, but i'm not requesting loans, i'm not making bets, i'm placing a standing offer to buy. A no risk offer to exchange money for investment. I don't think providing my social security number is needed for this transaction.

I will pay $0.25 on the dollar for anyone considering the offer.

Fuck off. This isn't an auction thread.

[Viceroy]

I will pay 30 cents on the dollar.  (your childish language is uncalled for)

[Frankie Delaney]

Motives aside, I'm not sure how the OP can't lose money on this.

If he buys people's BFL "debt" now and BFL delivers, they're going to deliver to the people who ordered the units, not the OP.

If BFL gets to the point where they start refusing refunds, then it's unlikely they'll have any assets which can be recovered by unsecured creditors in a lawsuit.  I'm not even sure about how customers would go about legally assigning their interest in a "debt" which isn't yet due (it's not a debt until such time as a refund request isn't honoured).

What's to stop someone from selling their BFL debt to the OP now and getting a refund from BFL or taking delivery of their unit and making themselves and easy 10%?  BFL's under no obligation to honour any agreements made between their customers and third parties in respect of ASIC orders.

How is the OP even going to confirm that someone hasn't already cancelled their order and received a refund?  I seriously doubt BFL is going to share such information with the OP.

Without giving too much away with regards to my legal strategy, 4 people have made themselves and their personal assets liable by representing themselves as officers of the company in more than 1 country. I'm not opening myself up to scammers by purchasing their "word" that they're selling me their order. I'm not an idiot, i wouldn't make the offer, and won't issue payment without a means to recover my investment. I made that mistake with my initial BFL order, and won't make it again.

[rograz]

I made that mistake with my initial BFL order, and won't make it again.

Guess what you can call BFL right now and get every single cent back that your order cost, isn't it great?

If you are the in the "BUT I WANT THE AMOUNT OF  BTC I PAID BACK RABBEL RABBEL RABBEL" crowd. guess what? That's not how shit works in the real world. In the real world you get back the value of your order, orders were always priced in USD, you get USD back simple.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I guess the alternative would be just to post my passport, and assume people will ignore my most recent scam

What scam did you commit recently? I've never scammed nor stolen from anyone. I am pretty well known for pulling giant pranks at the expense of others though (something I have no interest in doing anymore).

still dodging responsibilities and still never facing consequences.

You might want to click the link in my signature. Or if this comment was specifically about the bet and you're not thinking people were being paid for it, this thread might be more to the point.

What fucking legitimacy do you have?

I wasn't aware this thread was about me, but since you ask, despite co-founding Bitcoin Magazine, DialCoin, the largest business incubator group in Bitcoin, and paying off every loan or bad investment I've made despite personal risks and discomfort, I don't have much "legitimacy" to give opinions on BFL because my expertise is not in ASIC development. My expertise is more in the area of human behavior, specifically people trying to take advantage of other people and misrepresenting themselves, which I feel the sockpuppet offer for 10% of BFL's current 100% refund is. You can continue to try shifting the focus to your criticics' credibility, or you can start responding to actual concerns. Or you can just ignore us all and paste a giant ASCII middle finger. You are anonymous afterall.

A no risk offer to exchange money for investment. I don't think providing my social security number is needed for this transaction.

No risk? You're offering a loss of 90%, and a promise that the offer will be open when people actually need it. That sounds like a 90%~100% risk to me. As for this being "better" than a bet, don't forget that my bet was also "no risk" (and half the people already admitted they weren't planning on paying as they knew it was a prank).

[Frankie Delaney]

I will pay 30 cents on the dollar.  (your childish language is uncalled for)

Ok then, allow me to use more appropriate language.


This is neither the time nor the place to start an auction. Should somebody choose to auction off their order and/or debt with regaurds to butterfly labs and the delivery and/or failure to deliver their bitcoin mining products, feel free to out bid me there. This is not an auction. This is an offer to purchase debt owed to customers of butterfly labs with the intention of accumulating a sufficient amount to justify legal action.

In the interests of absolute transparency. I do not own any potion of butterfly labs I do have orders placed through butterfly labs. I do not believe my orders will be fulfilled. The cost for retainer for a lawyer capable of recovering my investment in butterfly labs in the countries in which their officers live/claim to live is larger than my current investment in butterfly labs, but still more than i would care to lose to what is obviously fraud.

Jesus christ, only on BCT could somebody prepared to pay for something be called out as a scammer by somebody who is completely deserving of the tag.

[Frankie Delaney]

I guess the alternative would be just to post my passport, and assume people will ignore my most recent scam

What scam did you commit recently? I've never scammed nor stolen from anyone. I am pretty well known for pulling giant pranks at the expense of others though (something I have no interest in doing anymore).

Oh, so only the last 3 months count? betting somebody, reneging when you lose, and becoming militant if you win is just a prank now?

still dodging responsibilities and still never facing consequences.

You might want to click the link in my signature. Or if this comment was specifically about the bet and you're not thinking people were being paid for it, this thread might be more to the point.

[/quote]
Oh, suddenly a large gambling win and high exchange rate can turn a scammer into an honest person.

What fucking legitimacy do you have?

I wasn't aware this thread was about me, but since you ask, despite co-founding Bitcoin Magazine, DialCoin, the largest business incubator group in Bitcoin, and paying off every loan or bad investment I've made despite personal risks and discomfort, I don't have much "legitimacy" to give opinions on BFL because my expertise is not in ASIC development. My expertise is more in the area of human behavior, specifically people trying to take advantage of other people and misrepresenting themselves, which I feel the sockpuppet offer for 10% of BFL's current 100% refund is.

You are making this thread about you, you make every thread about you. You are a sociopath, it's what you do.

had you won your bet, what lengths would you have gone to to ensure you were paid?

The bet was a prank both for attention (which I got) and to prove a point about people being far too trusting. I had already discussed what I would do if I won (give everything back) or lost (give one of 5 previously created excuses). None of this is relevant though, because the bet in itself was insanely reckless and poorly thought out. I hadn't considered that it would affect people's lives so horribly, and it moved me to take responsibility for it, regardless of how hard that was.

No, the bet was a hedge against your personal investment in pirateat40's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam. This thread is my hedge(albeit in a less scumbag way) against butterfly labs's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam. I have positioned myself as such that nobody i do business with will have been wronged. They will achieve their best possible outcome, i will achieve my best possible outcome.

You quite possibly drove pirate investors to suicide, and benefited from it. I am more interested in saving people from it, while still being able to benefit, even if that benefit is breaking even.

I remain semi-anonymous for my own personal safety, but even that has to be a step above known scammer.

Who's a known scammer? If that was a reference to me, what have I stolen?

A lost bet is a debt, ask any bookie, you stole over 10k.
[/quote]

A no risk offer to exchange money for investment. I don't think providing my social security number is needed for this transaction.

No risk? 90% risk it seems. Also, for the record my bet was also "no risk" because it was designed to not require escrow.[/quote]

My offer is to those who are unable to achieve a 100% refund from BFL.

Also, refering to this "record", how does avoiding security provided by escrow turn your bullshit bet into no risk? had your bet required escrow, had you been required to put up 1 btc for every btc bet, less people using your bet as a hedge against pirate losses would have lost everything they had. What i am offering is the exact opposite in every way of the bet you earned a scammer tag for.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I think you just went full retard.

[Tamerz]

He has every right to make this offer, we all have now just placed our opinions that it is a terrible offer, the best thing is to probably just let it be what it is. People can take it or leave it.

I personally think it is the wrong place for it, but whatever, I'm not a mod.

[Frankie Delaney]

looks like you are calling ME. scammer because you don't know the forum rules.  my offer stand.  pm me if interested.

I'm not calling anybody a scammer, except mathew N, Wright, who is quite obviously a scammer(but lol it was a joke k guise?). I am simply saying this is my offer, standing until i say otherwise, as of april 19, 11:38PM, 2013. I don't need 300 people popping in saying "i bid 11 cents" when they won't be there the moment somebody needs to sell.

[Frankie Delaney]

I think you just went full retard.

I corrected you on a point by point basis, and your only response is "lolretard"

Whatever you paid to get rid of your scammer tag was too much.

[repentance]

Without giving too much away with regards to my legal strategy, 4 people have made themselves and their personal assets liable by representing themselves as officers of the company in more than 1 country. I'm not opening myself up to scammers by purchasing their "word" that they're selling me their order. I'm not an idiot, i wouldn't make the offer, and won't issue payment without a means to recover my investment. I made that mistake with my initial BFL order, and won't make it again.

You do realise that staff are not necessarily officers of a company regardless of their inflated job titles.  If you've managed to get 4 people to admit that they're directors of BFL, then more power to you - but you still have to prove more than incompetence on the part of BFL before you can pierce the corporate veil and go after their personal assets (assuming they're not smart enough to have made their assets judgement-proof).  

The reason why such litigation is so rarely pursued is because it's so damned expensive and the prospects of recovering meaningful amounts after legal expenses are so small, especially when multiple jurisdictions are involved.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Whatever you paid to get rid of your scammer tag was too much.

I don't think so, and neither do the people whom I paid as they were people who placed bets with me and won. (e.g. the scammer tag was removed because I'm not a scammer)

I corrected you on a point by point basis

I couldn't see a single point in there, just baseless speculation of what you personally think happened.

Back to offering 10% of something people can get 100% for right now...

[rograz]

So no one wants to sell me apple shares for 20 usd then? they will be worthless one day, I promise.