Buying BFL debt. $0.10 per dollar owed.

[pizza]

WOW.

I've been idly following this whole BFL debacle for a few months, as I've got a few shares in a mining fund that's waiting on a pre-order.

The behaviour of BFL staff on this forum and others is absolutely disgraceful.

BFL, you folks have brought great, great shame to yourselves -- not through your hilariously inaccurate deadlines, but through your interactions with others on this forum.

Would you buy ANYTHING from a company whose representatives are calling others "pieces of shit" and "idiots" in public forums?

Absolutely disgraceful. Both of you should shut the fuck up until you start shipping. Until that happens, YOUR PRIORITY IS ON DELIVERING. Not mouthing off to strangers.

Your arrogance has made you the laughing stock of the entire Bitcoin community.

YOUR ARROGANCE IS WHY YOUR COMPANY WILL FAIL.

STFU bitch! Im bill gates from Microsoft buy Windows 8, Metro rocks you piece of shit, fuck apple.

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[Vorksholk]

I would suggest not selling your BFL pre-orders. I guarantee you BFL will deliver. $0.10 on the dollar is very low, and likely OP is working towards buying a bunch of preorders at a really good price. If you want to buy out of the product you pre-ordered, try ebay, you might actually turn a nice profit.

[Melchom]

I would suggest not selling your BFL pre-orders. I guarantee you BFL will deliver. $0.10 on the dollar is very low, and likely OP is working towards buying a bunch of preorders at a really good price. If you want to buy out of the product you pre-ordered, try ebay, you might actually turn a nice profit.

thanks for the common sense

[pizza]

I would suggest not selling your BFL pre-orders. I guarantee you BFL will deliver. $0.10 on the dollar is very low, and likely OP is working towards buying a bunch of preorders at a really good price. If you want to buy out of the product you pre-ordered, try ebay, you might actually turn a nice profit.

Yes they def. Will when 50gh/sec is worthless. Or better yet we're cancelling production to work on super computer chips, we will just offer you 50% off the new chips for your old ASIC and since you never got them you dont have to ship anything!

[Bogart]

I guarantee you BFL will deliver.

You do, eh?

Would you care to back that up with an insurance policy?

Say I pay you $0.10 on the dollar to insure my BFL order.  Then, if they fail to deliver, you repay me the full dollar-value of my BFL order.

Say, with a delivery deadline of December 31 2013, to be generous.

[k9quaint]

At least BFL investors now have some options.

[barneyss]

i aree with this post owner
but i'll do better, i'll buy your order for $100,00 bucks!!!! i dont care if its a 5, 25, 50 or 1500, i just wanna help you

[Matthew N. Wright]

WOW.

I've been idly following this whole BFL debacle for a few months, as I've got a few shares in a mining fund that's waiting on a pre-order.

The behaviour of BFL staff on this forum and others is absolutely disgraceful.

BFL, you folks have brought great, great shame to yourselves -- not through your hilariously inaccurate deadlines, but through your interactions with others on this forum.

Would you buy ANYTHING from a company whose representatives are calling others "pieces of shit" and "idiots" in public forums?

Absolutely disgraceful. Both of you should shut the fuck up until you start shipping. Until that happens, YOUR PRIORITY IS ON DELIVERING. Not mouthing off to strangers.

Your arrogance has made you the laughing stock of the entire Bitcoin community.

YOUR ARROGANCE IS WHY YOUR COMPANY WILL FAIL.

STFU bitch! Im bill gates from Microsoft buy Windows 8, Metro rocks you piece of shit, fuck apple.

I loled.

[becoin]

Have they stopped fulfilling refunds or something?

Yes, BFL is refusing full bitcoin refunds while OP said he doesn't care about bitcoin/$ exchange rate.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

@Inaba
shut up and pay 1000BTC to charity

I never received the memo showing that the PR guy of a company is allowed to make bets on their behalf. If you remember when BFL first came on the scene, the user BFL spoke about bets if such-and-such happens/doesn't happen, and Josh was right there in the mix.

[Inaba]

It's obvious with recent propaganda videos and lack of communication that the entire scheme is ready to collapse,

This is not incompatible with shipping some units. +0.

Of course it is.  If the entire alleged "scheme" collapsed, how would one ship out units?  The definition of a collapsed "scheme" is one where it is no longer producing the result.  Therefore it would be impossible to ship units.

In the interests of absolute transparency. I do not own any potion of butterfly labs I do have orders placed through butterfly labs. I do not believe my orders will be fulfilled.

It's quite possible they could fulfil some orders, but not his. +0.

This has some merit until you take the context of the post, which I did not quote in it's entirety.  Therefore your statement that it's possible is invalid in light of the context.  His claim is that it's impossible for BFL to be a real company and that it's a scam.  If it were a scam, it would not ship product, therefore, once again, if BFL fulfilled any orders it would likely fulfill his order.  The only realistic assement of not fulfilling his order would be BFL not fulfilling ANY orders.

This is further backed up by the fact  that he continues to maintain orders with BFL when he could just as easily get a refund.  Therefore it's quite clear that he doesn't even believe his own lies.

You believe you'll make your profit from BFL shipping a functional product, i don't believe that is a possiblity.

Again, not incompatible with shipping some units. +0.

I agree with this one for the most part, but again in the context of his statements and the fact that he maintains orders, it's clear that either he's the stupidest person in the world (for keeping orders with a company he doesn't believe will ship) or he's lying.  Either way, it's clear evidence that he actually believes BFL will ship product and that it's not a scam.

This thread is my hedge(albeit in a less scumbag way) against butterfly labs's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam.

This is probably the closest to saying "they will not ship," but could also refer to the fact that BFL was obviously using customer preorders to fund R&D and there was never a guarantee that they would have a product. If they had failed, all of the "pre-orderers" would be completely screwed, as that money was GONE. Hence, Ponzi scheme that may have gotten lucky and actually produced a working product (sort of). +0

Unfortunately, your entire premise is false.  There is nothing "obvious" about BFL using customer perorders to fund R&D.  That's just a fantasy you've made up (or repeated, as the case may be) and there is no credible evidence to support this assertion.  You may wish it to be true and you may want to believe it to be true, but you are unable to produce any credible evidence to support your assertion, which essentially makes it false (since it is false), and the only credible source of information (whether you choose to accept it as credible or not is immaterial, since it's your ONLY source) states otherwise.

Wow, the absolute definition of hypocrisy here. "Lying," "dirt bag," "piece of shit," you sure seem to fit all of those descriptions yourself, Josh. Amazing that you can throw them around so easily.

Really?  Can you point out where the hypocrisy is?  See, the problem is, you can't provide any evidence that I've done these things.  You may, again, want them to be true, but just because you want something so badly doesn't make them true.  The fact of the matter is, I have not lied or made up false information like Frankie here (or yourself, clearly)... and I can demonstrate that you have done so.  You are not able to do the same... there's a reason for that.  Frankie (and yourself) are lying, I am not.    If you disagree with this, please provide some evidence.  I've provided evidence that both you and Frankie are lying in this very post (and previous posts).  Your statement of "BFL is obviously using preorders for R & D" is an outright lie.  Frankie, we have already demonstrated his lying in great detail.

[rograz]

Yes, BFL is refusing full bitcoin refunds while OP said he doesn't care about bitcoin/$ exchange rate.

BFL never priced their products in BTC, they never received any BTC for their orders. Nothing different than me ordering things from the US and having my sek converted into usd, If I got a refund in this case it would always be for the usd value and not the amount of sek taken from my account. When will people stop bitching about this.

[John Self]

Just get a refund (especially if you have a minirig) directly from them and ignore OP's idea- doubtless he would be buying after the crash if he had such good lawyers and he could just request a refund and get ten times more than he gave you, but still request one before the glorified GPUs they're shipping now (i.e. in 2 weeks time) begin to disappoint customers. BFL's fools good has enamoured many from a distance, but when handled it gives a squelchy brownness and faint odour of BFL_Josh.

Preempt the stampede, if you aren't convinced that the BFL team are unhinged just read the semi-literate and rude offerings above. They'd rather take a bet and "ship" Luke or some cocksucker the first hot turd off the stove just to make a bunch of bitcoins than honour the existing one they have to a charity, which tells you as much as anything could.

[tigerfree]

It's obvious with recent propaganda videos and lack of communication that the entire scheme is ready to collapse,

This is not incompatible with shipping some units. +0.

Of course it is.  If the entire alleged "scheme" collapsed, how would one ship out units?  The definition of a collapsed "scheme" is one where it is no longer producing the result.  Therefore it would be impossible to ship units.

In the interests of absolute transparency. I do not own any potion of butterfly labs I do have orders placed through butterfly labs. I do not believe my orders will be fulfilled.

It's quite possible they could fulfil some orders, but not his. +0.

This has some merit until you take the context of the post, which I did not quote in it's entirety.  Therefore your statement that it's possible is invalid in light of the context.  His claim is that it's impossible for BFL to be a real company and that it's a scam.  If it were a scam, it would not ship product, therefore, once again, if BFL fulfilled any orders it would likely fulfill his order.  The only realistic assement of not fulfilling his order would be BFL not fulfilling ANY orders.

This is further backed up by the fact  that he continues to maintain orders with BFL when he could just as easily get a refund.  Therefore it's quite clear that he doesn't even believe his own lies.

You believe you'll make your profit from BFL shipping a functional product, i don't believe that is a possiblity.

Again, not incompatible with shipping some units. +0.

I agree with this one for the most part, but again in the context of his statements and the fact that he maintains orders, it's clear that either he's the stupidest person in the world (for keeping orders with a company he doesn't believe will ship) or he's lying.  Either way, it's clear evidence that he actually believes BFL will ship product and that it's not a scam.

This thread is my hedge(albeit in a less scumbag way) against butterfly labs's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam.

This is probably the closest to saying "they will not ship," but could also refer to the fact that BFL was obviously using customer preorders to fund R&D and there was never a guarantee that they would have a product. If they had failed, all of the "pre-orderers" would be completely screwed, as that money was GONE. Hence, Ponzi scheme that may have gotten lucky and actually produced a working product (sort of). +0

Unfortunately, your entire premise is false.  There is nothing "obvious" about BFL using customer perorders to fund R&D.  That's just a fantasy you've made up (or repeated, as the case may be) and there is no credible evidence to support this assertion.  You may wish it to be true and you may want to believe it to be true, but you are unable to produce any credible evidence to support your assertion, which essentially makes it false (since it is false), and the only credible source of information (whether you choose to accept it as credible or not is immaterial, since it's your ONLY source) states otherwise.

Wow, the absolute definition of hypocrisy here. "Lying," "dirt bag," "piece of shit," you sure seem to fit all of those descriptions yourself, Josh. Amazing that you can throw them around so easily.

Really?  Can you point out where the hypocrisy is?  See, the problem is, you can't provide any evidence that I've done these things.  You may, again, want them to be true, but just because you want something so badly doesn't make them true.  The fact of the matter is, I have not lied or made up false information like Frankie here (or yourself, clearly)... and I can demonstrate that you have done so.  You are not able to do the same... there's a reason for that.  Frankie (and yourself) are lying, I am not.    If you disagree with this, please provide some evidence.  I've provided evidence that both you and Frankie are lying in this very post (and previous posts).  Your statement of "BFL is obviously using preorders for R & D" is an outright lie.  Frankie, we have already demonstrated his lying in great detail.

when you are going to ship the pre order give us a final time we waited 7 month and more off course you are going to ignore my post  because you cant give us the final time  for shipping  any way good luck with your company .

[PuertoLibre]

This is the reason you will never be successful like Yifu and Avalon.  You are busy making bets on a message board and calling your customers lying pieces of shit.  They are busy shipping units to customers.

Uh, That, and the idea that he is probably paying for these bets with customers funds....

Unless he has a side job...I doubt he gets paid 130k a month or 65k a month to be laying down these huge bets.

He has not yet given any indication that he has paid the 1000 BTC that he lost. Yet here he is drawing huge sums of Bitcoins for yet another bet...seemingly on a whim.

It just adds to the dysfunctional nature that is BFL. Now we have a COO who is seemingly a gambler with (speculatively) customers funds. If I were a BFL customer I would be dead serious about getting my money back. ASAP!

[PuertoLibre]

I would suggest not selling your BFL pre-orders. I guarantee you BFL will deliver. $0.10 on the dollar is very low, and likely OP is working towards buying a bunch of preorders at a really good price. If you want to buy out of the product you pre-ordered, try ebay, you might actually turn a nice profit.

How would that work?

Paypal buyer protection would leave a huge hole the size of Kansas in their wallet. You are not going to be doing anyone a favor by non-delivery. The only people who can legitimately sell ASIC hardware meant for Bitcoin mining are Avalon Customers.

Any Ebay listing with BFL hardware is just plain fraud as none [or 99.99%] of the customers have any hardware.

Is this an effort to increase the size and scope of a huge mistake?

[John Self]

Now we have a COO who is seemingly a gambler with (speculatively) customers funds. If I were a BFL customer I would be dead serious about getting my money back. ASAP!

Wow well pointed out, they just seem like teenagers until you realise how much of real people's (earned) money they have stolen through their lies, and to go around betting that money to win arguments against people who are rightly sick of their bullshit is even more shameful than usual. If possible.

[Frizz23]

The fact of the matter is, I have not lied or made up false information ....

LOL. Josh? Seriously? You have not lied?

[ursa]

Hey Josh,
 
Who killed the FPGA market with bullshit like 1w/GH/s and dumping prices and failed to deliver?
Who promised 1000 BTC to charity if fails to achieve the power goal?
Shut the fuck up and DELIVER or REFUND or go to RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (you and your bosses)

[becoin]

BFL never priced their products in BTC

They did. I have an invoice from BFL with a clearly stated price both in $ AND bitcoin!

they never received any BTC for their orders.

They did. I've sent bitcoins to the bitcoin address they've pointed me to. I have a screenshot!

Nothing different than me ordering things from the US and having my sek converted into usd

It is very different. Read something about credit card payment processing first and stop comparing apples to oranges!

If I pay $ and my credit card is run in SEK it is MY BANK (I've signed contract with when my cc was issued) that is converting the SEK in $ and IS sending $$. The TRANSACTION currency is $$. This is why refund is in $. While paying in bitcoins the TRANSACTION currency is bitcoins. The refund must be in bitcoins.

BFL crooks usually say customers choose to pay through Bitpay. No! It is BFL that choose to accept customer' bitcoins through BitPay! BFL company is a customer of BitPay, not me. I don't have as a customer any contractual obligations or contractual relations with BitPay. For instance, can I pay BFL through the PayPal option, if BFL have such an option on their website, without being a PayPal customer? Of course, I can't!!! I paid the exact amount in bitcoins to the bitcoin address BFL specified on their invoice. It is BFL's choice to use BitPay's service to receive bitcoin payments from customers. BFL customers don't have any control on how BFL handle their bitcoin payments, how much bitcoins they convert in $, and how much they keep in bitcoin.