[ANN][ECA] Electra ⚡ | POS 3.0e | Super Rewards Bonanza

[Robofus]

For your information, the komodo developers don't code the atomic swap of other projects/coins. Just final test and integration once the project's devs have finished.

And as you have already been answered, developers don't need to be public..... As on Bitcoin or more recently on Grin..........

You can check their commits on the github when Ruanne published it and validate. -> https://twitter.com/ECA_Ruru

Can you tell me what you're looking for by wasting your time attacking Electra?


PS: concerning the 31M it's about E01 not the foundation...

 you should come  "Discord" if you have so many questions or write in single message (without double post) which mixes all the discussion.

[1714117807]

1714117807

[1714117807]

1714117807

[LightInOut]

Sorry Robert and Robofus


I guess everything is 100% FREE for Electra 

[AltInvestor2018]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.  
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do.  
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.  
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands.  

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.  

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Thank you for your professional,  non-condescending answer.  I don't ask these questions to create FUD, as Robert has implied in his response,  but out of a real sense of concern for the management and direction of the project.  
Dec 6th on the explorer shows 5.4m transferred out which is unaccounted for on the sheet the team provided you with?
My other big concern is that the Foundation Board doesn't have the time available to commit  to the project.  As volunteers,  their time is definitely appreciated,  however it would appear the Project could be being held back due to their inability to commit more time.  It's very worrisome that the responses for why things aren't done always contain a disclaimer that falls along the lines of "we're volunteers,  appreciate what you get,  we don't have time".
Is there no way that the current Foundation members could assign rights or powers to people such as Master Den and Asmoth who are available more?
Last question... it has been discussed frequently in the past that a way for the community to have more input and voting powers would be implemented, but so far it just seems to be becoming more and more restrictive and exclusive to an extremely small handful of people. Has the idea of a "community run" coin & community voting rights been abandoned? Just as a for instance... the decision to use foundation funds to fund Aircoins is questionable at best IMO. Much more effective forms of advertising they could be paying for.  
Thank you again for your professionalism and cooperation.  

[robertsebastian]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.  
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do.  
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.  
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands.  

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.  

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Thank you for your professional,  non-condescending answer.  I don't ask these questions to create FUD, as Robert has implied in his response,  but out of a real sense of concern for the management and direction of the project.  
Dec 6th on the explorer shows 5.4m transferred out which is unaccounted for on the sheet the team provided you with?
My other big concern is that the Foundation Board doesn't have the time available to commit  to the project.  As volunteers,  their time is definitely appreciated,  however it would appear the Project could be being held back due to their inability to commit more time.  It's very worrisome that the responses for why things aren't done always contain a disclaimer that falls along the lines of "we're volunteers,  appreciate what you get,  we don't have time".
Is there no way that the current Foundation members could assign rights or powers to people such as Master Den and Asmoth who are available more?
Last question... it has been discussed frequently in the past that a way for the community to have more input and voting powers would be implemented, but so far it just seems to be becoming more and more restrictive and exclusive to an extremely small handful of people. Has the idea of a "community run" coin & community voting rights been abandoned? Just as a for instance... the decision to use foundation funds to fund Aircoins is questionable at best IMO. Much more effective forms of advertising they could be paying for.  
Thank you again for your professionalism and cooperation.  


I can assure everyone that we have enough time to do whats is needed, necessary and urgent for the foundation. It seems you are not fully aware of what has been discussed in the coordinator calls, or on our social media. Very soon as board of advisors will be installed to advice and help with the tasks that the foundation should do. The board of advisors are for example existing of the names that you mention.

On the other hand we won't do extra work that is not necessary. If the law doesn't oblige us to file annual reports, we will not make them. And so on..

Having a foundation and shaping it for good use is something that cost time and it is perfectly fine to take the time. We have frequent calls and discuss how we, as foundation, can grow and develop into becoming more and more professional. As you also missed in the recent communications since founding of the Foundation is that we have plans for community inclusion in decision making and these plans have been shared.

If you would like you can share your personal data with me so we can have a phone call or skype call to discuss your concerns as bag hodler of ECA and perhaps see if you could help out in an active manner. After all, we can't do this only with the small team that we have.. we need more active and skilled people that are loyal, positive, willing to build, spend time and help others. This could be you!

feel free to send me a DM on Telegram or Discord.

[LightInOut]

the decision to use foundation funds to fund Aircoins is questionable at best IMO. Much more effective forms of advertising they could be paying for.  
Thank you again for your professionalism and cooperation.  

Does Aircoins provide analytics as to how many of their users receive ECA airdrops via their app?

Will Electra foundation be responsible for maintaining this partnership? or will members be required to donate ECA to Aircoins?

I would like to know what the ROI is of this partnership!

[AltInvestor2018]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/

Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 

[loweyboy]

Fantastic work by all the devs, team members and community members, active or silent. I have been involved since September 2017 and have never once had cause to doubt the Project or E01, who is beyond reproach, ultimately professional. Whilst some naer do wells try and FUD, he has always risen above their cowardly attempts, well-done that man, one day I truly hope to be able to buy you a beer or two.

[LightInOut]

Here comes the "Electra Army" of suppressors

If anyone has a valid question or concern they call upon everyone to push the messages down so others don't see it 

[robertsebastian]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.  
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do.  
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.  
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands.  

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.  

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/

Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable.  
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time.  
  


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.

[/quote]

[BobTrade]

I would like to congratulate the entire Electra team for the great achievements they are obtaining with honesty and dedication. It's amazing what a small team and without big money managed to achieve in such a short time. Great job guys, respect!

[LightInOut]

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.

Robert! You tell us you hired external, anonymous devs for the fork? What did they work on? What did Komodo do? I do not understand how everything is free 

[Apfelgluck]

Komodo does support... That's as simple as this... You're a bit slow.

[AltInvestor2018]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/

Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.

[/quote]


It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.

[LightInOut]

Komodo does support... That's as simple as this... You're a bit slow.

You are an idiot and simple minded person that just listens to whatever they tell you.


Go message Komodo and you will see how expensive their fees are. But hey Electra gets everything for free 

[altfeeder]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/

Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.

It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
[/quote]

About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.

E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.

Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.

To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no. 

furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).

If you have question, contact me on discord.

Regards Bob

[AltInvestor2018]

As an armchair critic,  backseat driver,  fudder, whatever you want to call me,  these are things the teams need to start doing again,  which all seem to have gone by the wayside since the mass exodus of key team members last summer (I know someone,  somewhere,  is going to reply with "they weren't key team members" but they very obviously were or things wouldn't have gotten left like they have). THIS IS CONSTRUCTIVE ADVICE AND IS NOT MEANT AS FUD.
1. Back room updates - these improved transparency immensely.  
2. Proofreading EVERYTHING that gets posted on social media.  The spelling and grammar errors that are regularly in posts now are really unprofessional looking.  
3. Help wanted ads - You keep claiming people should volunteer. To where? The only post I've seen in months is for developers.  
4. Translation team - what happened to getting everything translated for a global community?
5. Engineering call agendas
6. Consistent engineering calls held on the date they're supposed to be
7. Engineering call transcripts for easy access
8. Articles written by ECA with pertinent,  informative content
9. Marketing has pretty much died... what happened to the graphics,  information, updates etc?
10. Current roadmap
11. Updated whitepaper
12. Updated team information.
13. Community input,  opportunities for engineering call content requests

From the time the teams were formed until about July or August almost everything about this coin and its management was impressive, even in a "down" market.  It was constantly growing and evolving.  Sure it had some hiccups,  but the team more than made up for it,  keeping everyone informed and excited on a continuous basis.  
Having talked to many of the team members that left,  their reasons for leaving had nothing at all to do with a down market.
Before you claim not enough time or volunteers, my personal suggestion would be to beg the key people who left to come back. Pay them, take up donations,  use foundation funds... whatever it takes,  just try to get them back.  The ones I can think of are people like Crypto Life, Undertow, Mom, Ivan, Maverick...
Which brings me to my next point on volunteers.  I myself would never personally volunteer for this project because of the way the volunteers are regarded after they leave.  It's made very clear that no matter who it is that leaves,  they didn't really matter and are easily replaceable.  Their reasons are reduced to "they couldn't stick it through" , belittling their contributions and real reasons they had for leaving.  Obviously,  some of them aren't replaceable. For instance,  you'll probably never get volunteers again with the same qualifications and abilities as the people I listed above.  Hell, you can't get people like them for paid positions,  let alone volunteer ones.  
Maverick was one of the most effective marketers or "hype" expert I've ever seen.  
Mom had unbelievable experience and seemed to somehow keep it all under control.
Ivan did massive amounts of development.  
Crypto Life was an expert in pretty much everything,  and an amazing community person.  
Undertow wrote good articles,  and based on everything that was released during his time,  was a professional proofer.  
I don't know who was responsible for each of the things that have been abandoned since they all left,  but you need to get them all back, & the only way you can do that in a timely manner is to try to get some of those key people back.

[AltInvestor2018]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/

Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.

It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.

About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.

E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.

Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.

To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no. 

furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).

If you have question, contact me on discord.

Regards Bob
[/quote]
Thank you for your clear and concise answer, particularly that part which addressed how it's decided what gets paid and how.  Completely understandable that every payment out wouldn't and shouldn't be in full detail.  General terminology would probably work the best ie...Advertising,  Exchange fees,  dues and subscriptions,  etc.  Just like it would be in an accounting program. 
Honestly,  malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on,  who's doing what,  what's spent,  etc.  It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know.  My worry went from "they're spending a lot,  quickly,  and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort. 

[altfeeder]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/

Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.

It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.

About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.

E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.

Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.

To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no. 

furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).

If you have question, contact me on discord.

Regards Bob

Thank you for your clear and concise answer, particularly that part which addressed how it's decided what gets paid and how.  Completely understandable that every payment out wouldn't and shouldn't be in full detail.  General terminology would probably work the best ie...Advertising,  Exchange fees,  dues and subscriptions,  etc.  Just like it would be in an accounting program. 
Honestly,  malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on,  who's doing what,  what's spent,  etc.  It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know.  My worry went from "they're spending a lot,  quickly,  and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort. 
[/quote]

No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.

Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.

[AltInvestor2018]

Dear Stakeholders,

31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.

Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds.  To date,  they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you,  5m from donation wallet),  with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed. 
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings,  which they've also failed to do. 
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes. 
By all accounts,  you are more transparent than the Foundation,  and the premine would be better off in your hands. 

I just saw on Discord that Robert claims the Foundation hasn't spent 14 million... Which means he doesn't know what's going on,  or its something he doesn't want known.  This brings up another question of who exactly has access to the funds and who authorizes or keeps track? If Robert himself doesn't have a clue,  the options are
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track,  or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good,  valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent. 

The 31.5 million will not be deducted.

The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).

My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png

Dear community,

I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.

On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.

So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.

Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.

End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,

Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/

Robert,  I have always held you in high regards, however your condescending attitude towards anyone who dares to ask a question is exactly why I chose to post my questions anonymously in here instead of in Discord, where I'll be ostracized for daring to question anything. I'm in there daily,  and see how everyone's treated if they're not cheerleading.  I am indeed grateful for all the volunteers,  however being a volunteer doesn't mean you're above reproach or not accountable. 
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence,  not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website  was live.  It's now live,  and still nothing is available.  As you've intimated,  almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation.  It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord.  30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October,  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes,  or accounting,  even if the volunteers are all part time. 
 


 

I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not.  I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them

If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.

On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.

I wish you the best.

It's been 5 months since I posted any questions,  at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time,  it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to,  and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes. 
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk.  E01's, yes.  Consistently and timely.  The Foundation's, no.  Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER  I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting.  The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent,  which means YOU didn't even know until I asked. 
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues,  concerns,  and questions.
Answering questions in a direct,  factual manner as E01 does in far more professional,  and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.

About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.

E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.

Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.

To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no. 

furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).

If you have question, contact me on discord.

Regards Bob

Thank you for your clear and concise answer, particularly that part which addressed how it's decided what gets paid and how.  Completely understandable that every payment out wouldn't and shouldn't be in full detail.  General terminology would probably work the best ie...Advertising,  Exchange fees,  dues and subscriptions,  etc.  Just like it would be in an accounting program. 
Honestly,  malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on,  who's doing what,  what's spent,  etc.  It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know.  My worry went from "they're spending a lot,  quickly,  and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort. 

No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.

Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.


[/quote]
Just an FYI that Dec 6 payouts still don't reconcile with spreadsheet,  but I'm sure you'll get that fixed.  The spreadsheet doesn't reflect the payouts to Coindeal winners 1-8. (Found that on one of your previous posts about the Coindeal payout).
Thank you again for your help. 

[Sergo80]

I cant wait to see new features with upcoming fork. The team is doing unbelievable amazing work on this project. This project should be inspiration for all blockchain projects out there in this times.