Evolution is a hoax

[notbatman]

^^^ This from the guy who swears up and down that scientists and the media cannot lie about outer space or the shape of the earth. 

[af_newbie]

The reason we don't know is that we live by faith and belief. In other words, we are religious beings, and live religious lives.

Some of us trust God, so we know by faith. No big crunch. No big bang. Destruction of this universe soon. But loss of this universe to all of us when we die.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

Have you examined all the principles and application of all - or at least most - science? Or do you have faith in scientists and the media, that they are telling you the truth?

Yes, I did, for the most part. But that was not the question.

When you have and understand the evidence you don't need faith.

You, on the other hand, are like a lost lamb in the woods, to be chewed up and converted to a pile of manure
by any pack of wolves (priests) that comes along.

If there is one scientist in the world who lies, there will be thousands who will expose him/her in a New York minute.  Science is the only way we know to get to the objective truth.  Their results are checked over and over.  Every graduate or post-graduate student wants to invalidate previous scientific results and make a name for himself/herself.

But to you it means nothing, nonsensical words scribbled down by anonymous goat herders, who knows when and where, translated and mistranslated by hundreds of other scribes, added and modified millennia later by some old men with pointy hats, those words mean everything.  You accept them without any examination or evidence.  Study other Bronze Age, prior and later myths, you'll understand the parallels and the reasons why the Bible was written.  Study high-school Physics, Biology, Chemistry, you'll understand why the Bible content is pure, unadulterated scientific nonsense.

Your rejection of science is revolting.  

I think people like you are interesting study subjects, Psychologists and Psychiatrists should study you to figure out which part of your brain is affected by your delusion.

You are a sad, broken toy, donated to one church, now passed around like a $5 crack whore.

[BADecker]

Have you examined all the principles and application of all - or at least most - science? Or do you have faith in scientists and the media, that they are telling you the truth?

Yes, I did, for the most part. But that was not the question.

So, now everybody can see your churning weakness that anyone has to put up with just to respond to you.

First you answer the question, even bolding it so that we all can see the question you are answering. Then you say it wasn't the question. If it wasn't the question, why did you bold it and answer it? No wonder you don't understand what I am posting.

Don't worry. You have friends, here. I am calling out to all Christians in the forum to pray for af_newbie.

Btw, you still haven't shown any proof for evolution. But you wouldn't understand it if you had any. After all, you can't even explain the evidence in your own words.

Evolution remains a hoax.

[af_newbie]

Have you examined all the principles and application of all - or at least most - science? Or do you have faith in scientists and the media, that they are telling you the truth?

Yes, I did, for the most part. But that was not the question.

So, now everybody can see your churning weakness that anyone has to put up with just to respond to you.

First you answer the question, even bolding it so that we all can see the question you are answering. Then you say it wasn't the question. If it wasn't the question, why did you bold it and answer it? No wonder you don't understand what I am posting.

Don't worry. You have friends, here. I am calling out to all Christians in the forum to pray for af_newbie.

Btw, you still haven't shown any proof for evolution. But you wouldn't understand it if you had any. After all, you can't even explain the evidence in your own words.

Evolution remains a hoax.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

[BADecker]

Have you examined all the principles and application of all - or at least most - science? Or do you have faith in scientists and the media, that they are telling you the truth?

Yes, I did, for the most part. But that was not the question.

So, now everybody can see your churning weakness that anyone has to put up with just to respond to you.

First you answer the question, even bolding it so that we all can see the question you are answering. Then you say it wasn't the question. If it wasn't the question, why did you bold it and answer it? No wonder you don't understand what I am posting.

Don't worry. You have friends, here. I am calling out to all Christians in the forum to pray for af_newbie.

Btw, you still haven't shown any proof for evolution. But you wouldn't understand it if you had any. After all, you can't even explain the evidence in your own words.

Evolution remains a hoax.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

You seem to. You don't understand how evolution could exist, yet you have faith that it does.

Evolution is a hoax.

[af_newbie]

Have you examined all the principles and application of all - or at least most - science? Or do you have faith in scientists and the media, that they are telling you the truth?

Yes, I did, for the most part. But that was not the question.

So, now everybody can see your churning weakness that anyone has to put up with just to respond to you.

First you answer the question, even bolding it so that we all can see the question you are answering. Then you say it wasn't the question. If it wasn't the question, why did you bold it and answer it? No wonder you don't understand what I am posting.

Don't worry. You have friends, here. I am calling out to all Christians in the forum to pray for af_newbie.

Btw, you still haven't shown any proof for evolution. But you wouldn't understand it if you had any. After all, you can't even explain the evidence in your own words.

Evolution remains a hoax.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

You seem to. You don't understand how evolution could exist, yet you have faith that it does.

Evolution is a hoax.

I asked you.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

[BADecker]

You seem to. You don't understand how evolution could exist, yet you have faith that it does.

Evolution is a hoax.

I asked you.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

Bravo! Not only did you recognize that you asked a question, but you even repeated the question itself. Excellent!

Or did you only copy and paste it from somewhere else. However, for you that is still very good.

[af_newbie]

You seem to. You don't understand how evolution could exist, yet you have faith that it does.

Evolution is a hoax.

I asked you.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

Bravo! Not only did you recognize that you asked a question, but you even repeated the question itself. Excellent!

Or did you only copy and paste it from somewhere else. However, for you that is still very good.

So answer the question.  I don't cut and paste from anywhere.  If I do, I will use quotes and italic font to mark external content.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

[BADecker]

Bravo! Not only did you recognize that you asked a question, but you even repeated the question itself. Excellent!

Or did you only copy and paste it from somewhere else. However, for you that is still very good.

So answer the question.  I don't cut and paste from anywhere.  If I do, I will use quotes and italic font to mark external content.

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

Excellent! You actually copy rather than cut and paste. Bravo!

[styca]

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

I'll just interject to add another voice to the side of reason here.
Faith by definition is not the way to distinguish what is true from what is false.
We determine the difference using logic, a form of which being science. Accumulation of evidence to support a theory, so that it becomes quite obviously fact - like evolution, for example.

'Faith' is just a word to denote belief in a thing for which there is absolutely no evidence - God, Russell's Teapot, Flying Spaghetti Monster. But can also equally well be applied to beliefs where the evidence is stacked against it - flat earth, creationism etc.

[BADecker]

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

I'll just interject to add another voice to the side of reason here.
Faith by definition is not the way to distinguish what is true from what is false.
We determine the difference using logic, a form of which being science. Accumulation of evidence to support a theory, so that it becomes quite obviously fact - like evolution, for example.

'Faith' is just a word to denote belief in a thing for which there is absolutely no evidence - God, Russell's Teapot, Flying Spaghetti Monster. But can also equally well be applied to beliefs where the evidence is stacked against it - flat earth, creationism etc.

While faith is not the way to determine what is true or false, faith is at the base of the determination. Simply what I mean is, even if you do an experiment the same way 10,000 times, and you get the same result all 10,000 of those times, there is no way that you know for a fact that 10,001 won't be different. Until you do 10,001, there is a tiny nagging doubt, one that you may have hidden under loads of experience, that this time it might be different.

Science alleviates this idea of faith as much as they can by stating that the experiment is an absolute fact if it happens the same way 10 to the 40th power number of times (or thereabout), without being different once.

Regarding the existence of God, there is no faith. There is knowledge. The knowledge is based on going beyond 10 to the 40th power regarding some things that are literally impossible without God. It is based on the Machine-Maker of the universe; we have no other evidence of machines coming into existence but by makers. And there is the complexity of what exists... the knowledge that the more complex the machine, the more capable the maker. If FSM can be shown to have been able to make the machine universe, then the FSM might be God. The point is that God exists.

Faith regarding God is faith in what God says. God says things in different ways. The quality of us having all kinds of things for life shows that God is capable. It suggests that He will continue to be capable just in the fact that we see the needs of life taken care of all over the place. But because we see problems in life, the good things become faith things. But this isn't God speaking by words.

When God speaks by words via holy books, this is another way we have faith. We see if what God says in the holy books matches what exists. It's a form of faith in God if we believe Him... even if the belief is only based on His past truthfulness.

When God speaks to any of us directly, we might have faith in Him by believing what He says directly to us. The rest of us shouldn't place trust in what any person says he heard from God, directly, except if there is evidence that what the hearer says He heard from God is the truth. And it should be checked out to see if it isn't something that anybody could have discerned had they looked. It has to have the quality of being unique to the God-hearer.

The point is, God isn't believed to exist. He is known to exist. The believing (faith) part is believing what God says.

[af_newbie]

Do you think faith is a reliable way to discover what is true and what is false?

I'll just interject to add another voice to the side of reason here.
Faith by definition is not the way to distinguish what is true from what is false.
We determine the difference using logic, a form of which being science. Accumulation of evidence to support a theory, so that it becomes quite obviously fact - like evolution, for example.

'Faith' is just a word to denote belief in a thing for which there is absolutely no evidence - God, Russell's Teapot, Flying Spaghetti Monster. But can also equally well be applied to beliefs where the evidence is stacked against it - flat earth, creationism etc.

While faith is not the way to determine what is true or false, faith is at the base of the determination. Simply what I mean is, even if you do an experiment the same way 10,000 times, and you get the same result all 10,000 of those times, there is no way that you know for a fact that 10,001 won't be different. Until you do 10,001, there is a tiny nagging doubt, one that you may have hidden under loads of experience, that this time it might be different.

Science alleviates this idea of faith as much as they can by stating that the experiment is an absolute fact if it happens the same way 10 to the 40th power number of times (or thereabout), without being different once.

Regarding the existence of God, there is no faith. There is knowledge. The knowledge is based on going beyond 10 to the 40th power regarding some things that are literally impossible without God. It is based on the Machine-Maker of the universe; we have no other evidence of machines coming into existence but by makers. And there is the complexity of what exists... the knowledge that the more complex the machine, the more capable the maker. If FSM can be shown to have been able to make the machine universe, then the FSM might be God. The point is that God exists.

Faith regarding God is faith in what God says. God says things in different ways. The quality of us having all kinds of things for life shows that God is capable. It suggests that He will continue to be capable just in the fact that we see the needs of life taken care of all over the place. But because we see problems in life, the good things become faith things. But this isn't God speaking by words.

When God speaks by words via holy books, this is another way we have faith. We see if what God says in the holy books matches what exists. It's a form of faith in God if we believe Him... even if the belief is only based on His past truthfulness.

When God speaks to any of us directly, we might have faith in Him by believing what He says directly to us. The rest of us shouldn't place trust in what any person says he heard from God, directly, except if there is evidence that what the hearer says He heard from God is the truth. And it should be checked out to see if it isn't something that anybody could have discerned had they looked. It has to have the quality of being unique to the God-hearer.

The point is, God isn't believed to exist. He is known to exist. The believing (faith) part is believing what God says.

The moment you start using faith as your base, you've made your first mistake.

Remember that if watchmakers have makers; their makers also have their own makers, ad infinitum.  If you follow your logic to its conclusion, it is not logical to assume that a maker would not have his/her maker.  

Some properties in nature are emergent.  Maybe life is just that. A carbon-based, self-replicating dune.

It is not reasonable to believe in something without evidence.

God does not speak, God does not exist.  If you hear God you are a delusional schizophrenic.

[BADecker]

The moment you start using faith as your base, you've made your first mistake.

Remember that if watchmakers have makers; their makers also have their own makers, ad infinitum.  If you follow your logic to its conclusion, it is not logical to assume that a maker would not have his/her maker.  

Some properties in nature are emergent.  Maybe life is just that. A carbon-based, self-replicating dune.

It is not reasonable to believe in something without evidence.

God does not speak, God does not exist.  If you hear God you are a delusional schizophrenic.

Oh, oh. You are constantly making your first mistake. And you know it by the mistakes you have made.

Just because you don't want to admit your mistakes, doesn't mean that you haven't made them. Did you ever get a problem wrong in school? Did you ever burn yourself? Did you ever get a little fender bender? What have you done wrong that you weren't expecting to be wrong, but it was wrong?

The point is that many of the things you did wrong, you thought you did right. Before you found out that you were wrong, you thought you were right. Some of them may have even come as a surprise. Some of them, after you were told that you were wrong, you still couldn't believe it, and had to work through it thoroughly before you realized that you were wrong.

Now, in the mistakes you made, you were honestly thinking that you didn't make a mistake until you found out later that you did. You had faith in your abilities, or in your surroundings, or in the integrity of others, or in whatever, that you were acting correctly. Then you found out there was a mistake involved.

Think of all the people who made a driving mistake, if only it was that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Think of all the airliner crashes where people died... died having faith in all the circumstances of the flight... but the plane crashed and killed them.

Now, think about anything that you do. How do you know that you aren't making a mistake this time? Sure, most of the things that you do work out. But how do you know for a fact that this one thing isn't a mistake? You don't! You don't know FOR A FACT about any of them until later. If you absolutely DID know, you wouldn't make your mistakes.

You are essentially acting in faith in all of it. Experience tells you that things generally run pretty smooth. But experience, also, tells you that you have and will make mistakes. But you don't just stop. You continue because you have faith that if their are mistakes in your life, that somehow you will be able to handle them.

If life happened to be a little less stable than it is, you would be making more mistakes. As it is, you have faith that it will work out.

[af_newbie]

The moment you start using faith as your base, you've made your first mistake.

Remember that if watchmakers have makers; their makers also have their own makers, ad infinitum.  If you follow your logic to its conclusion, it is not logical to assume that a maker would not have his/her maker.  

Some properties in nature are emergent.  Maybe life is just that. A carbon-based, self-replicating dune.

It is not reasonable to believe in something without evidence.

God does not speak, God does not exist.  If you hear God you are a delusional schizophrenic.

Oh, oh. You are constantly making your first mistake. And you know it by the mistakes you have made.

Just because you don't want to admit your mistakes, doesn't mean that you haven't made them. Did you ever get a problem wrong in school? Did you ever burn yourself? Did you ever get a little fender bender? What have you done wrong that you weren't expecting to be wrong, but it was wrong?

The point is that many of the things you did wrong, you thought you did right. Before you found out that you were wrong, you thought you were right. Some of them may have even come as a surprise. Some of them, after you were told that you were wrong, you still couldn't believe it, and had to work through it thoroughly before you realized that you were wrong.

Now, in the mistakes you made, you were honestly thinking that you didn't make a mistake until you found out later that you did. You had faith in your abilities, or in your surroundings, or in the integrity of others, or in whatever, that you were acting correctly. Then you found out there was a mistake involved.

Think of all the people who made a driving mistake, if only it was that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Think of all the airliner crashes where people died... died having faith in all the circumstances of the flight... but the plane crashed and killed them.

Now, think about anything that you do. How do you know that you aren't making a mistake this time? Sure, most of the things that you do work out. But how do you know for a fact that this one thing isn't a mistake? You don't! You don't know FOR A FACT about any of them until later. If you absolutely DID know, you wouldn't make your mistakes.

You are essentially acting in faith in all of it. Experience tells you that things generally run pretty smooth. But experience, also, tells you that you have and will make mistakes. But you don't just stop. You continue because you have faith that if their are mistakes in your life, that somehow you will be able to handle them.

If life happened to be a little less stable than it is, you would be making more mistakes. As it is, you have faith that it will work out.

re: How do you know that you aren't making a mistake this time?

Because, unlike you, I have read all three Abrahamic holy books, and there is no way in hell that these books were inspired by the creator of the universe.

And because the creator of the universe failed to show his sorry ass, i.e. there is absolutely no evidence of his existence.

Just people talking about their dreams, feelings, hopes, and delusions.  That is all religions are, smoke and mirrors.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity.

[styca]

Regarding the existence of God, there is no faith. There is knowledge. The knowledge is based on going beyond 10 to the 40th power regarding some things that are literally impossible without God. It is based on the Machine-Maker of the universe; we have no other evidence of machines coming into existence but by makers.

There is absolutely no knowledge or evidence for God. If you think you have knowledge of something but there is zero evidence for it, then it isn't knowledge, it's faith.
Nothing is proven to be literally impossible without God.
We have huge amounts of evidence of machines, such as humans, coming into existence through evolution, without a maker.

And there is the complexity of what exists... the knowledge that the more complex the machine, the more capable the maker.

Evolution. Complexity can and does evolve over time. Things like eyeballs didn't suddenly spring into existence, they started as slightly light-sensitive skin. Evolution takes huge amounts of time.

If FSM can be shown to have been able to make the machine universe, then the FSM might be God. The point is that God exists.

Yes, if FSM can be shown to have made the universe I will accept (but not worship) it as God. The point is we have zero evidence.

[BADecker]

Regarding the existence of God, there is no faith. There is knowledge. The knowledge is based on going beyond 10 to the 40th power regarding some things that are literally impossible without God. It is based on the Machine-Maker of the universe; we have no other evidence of machines coming into existence but by makers.

There is absolutely no knowledge or evidence for God. If you think you have knowledge of something but there is zero evidence for it, then it isn't knowledge, it's faith.
Nothing is proven to be literally impossible without God.
We have huge amounts of evidence of machines, such as humans, coming into existence through evolution, without a maker.

Besides the machine universe having a maker as all machines, there is the proof for God in the fact that when you combine cause-and-effect, entropy and complexity as they are in this universe, there is no other method for the universe to exist other than creation by God.

Throw handfuls of element dust into the air for a hundred years. Nature will never make anything approaching the complexity of life out of any of it. There has to be design, and nature isn't intelligent, so it can't design things. Accidents don't make complexity, or can you show us some accidental complexity and prove it was accidental?

And there is the complexity of what exists... the knowledge that the more complex the machine, the more capable the maker.

Evolution. Complexity can and does evolve over time. Things like eyeballs didn't suddenly spring into existence, they started as slightly light-sensitive skin. Evolution takes huge amounts of time.

That's a nice story that you have there. But you don't have any proof that the so-called various stages of eye development in the animals in nature, weren't created by God to be just this way. But we have lots of evidence that they were created by God to be the way they are, rather than stages in changing development. What is our evidence? Like beget like. Their offspring are the same as their parents regarding eye development, and development in the rest of their bodies.

So far, nobody has proven that changes are anything other than simple change, adaptation, or like-begets-like. This doesn't mean that we can't create something in the lab. But in nature, there is nothing like evolution.

If FSM can be shown to have been able to make the machine universe, then the FSM might be God. The point is that God exists.

Yes, if FSM can be shown to have made the universe I will accept (but not worship) it as God. The point is we have zero evidence.

The FSM has no God-description behind it. It is an idol set up by people, with no methods or evidence for the claims the people make about it.

Whatever God really is, such is shown that God exists through the methods described in my first response, above.

All that anybody has for evolution-theory-evolution is talk... a fun science fiction story. There is evidence for it that fits other things better. And there is no proof at all. Believing in evolution is religious belief.

Evolution is a hoax.

[af_newbie]

Regarding the existence of God, there is no faith. There is knowledge. The knowledge is based on going beyond 10 to the 40th power regarding some things that are literally impossible without God. It is based on the Machine-Maker of the universe; we have no other evidence of machines coming into existence but by makers.

There is absolutely no knowledge or evidence for God. If you think you have knowledge of something but there is zero evidence for it, then it isn't knowledge, it's faith.
Nothing is proven to be literally impossible without God.
We have huge amounts of evidence of machines, such as humans, coming into existence through evolution, without a maker.

Besides the machine universe having a maker as all machines, there is the proof for God in the fact that when you combine cause-and-effect, entropy and complexity as they are in this universe, there is no other method for the universe to exist other than creation by God.

Throw handfuls of element dust into the air for a hundred years. Nature will never make anything approaching the complexity of life out of any of it. There has to be design, and nature isn't intelligent, so it can't design things. Accidents don't make complexity, or can you show us some accidental complexity and prove it was accidental?

And there is the complexity of what exists... the knowledge that the more complex the machine, the more capable the maker.

Evolution. Complexity can and does evolve over time. Things like eyeballs didn't suddenly spring into existence, they started as slightly light-sensitive skin. Evolution takes huge amounts of time.

That's a nice story that you have there. But you don't have any proof that the so-called various stages of eye development in the animals in nature, weren't created by God to be just this way. But we have lots of evidence that they were created by God to be the way they are, rather than stages in changing development. What is our evidence? Like beget like. Their offspring are the same as their parents regarding eye development, and development in the rest of their bodies.

So far, nobody has proven that changes are anything other than simple change, adaptation, or like-begets-like. This doesn't mean that we can't create something in the lab. But in nature, there is nothing like evolution.

If FSM can be shown to have been able to make the machine universe, then the FSM might be God. The point is that God exists.

Yes, if FSM can be shown to have made the universe I will accept (but not worship) it as God. The point is we have zero evidence.

The FSM has no God-description behind it. It is an idol set up by people, with no methods or evidence for the claims the people make about it.

Whatever God really is, such is shown that God exists through the methods described in my first response, above.

All that anybody has for evolution-theory-evolution is talk... a fun science fiction story. There is evidence for it that fits other things better. And there is no proof at all. Believing in evolution is religious belief.

Evolution is a hoax.

What is God and how was it created?

[BADecker]

What is God and how was it He created?

The fact that God was not in the universe before He created it, shows that the essence of God is something that we can't know except that He tells us. Why? Because we, being universe beings, can't think in extra-universal terms necessary for knowing anything about God.

However, you ask this question in the wrong thread. This is the thread where we emphatically prove that evolution is a hoax.

I hate to have to hurt all those evolution religion believers' feelings. But it is better that their feelings are hurt here, so that they find God and get saved.

Evolution is a hoax.

[af_newbie]

What is God and how was it He created?

The fact that God was not in the universe before He created it, shows that the essence of God is something that we can't know except that He tells us. Why? Because we, being universe beings, can't think in extra-universal terms necessary for knowing anything about God.

However, you ask this question in the wrong thread. This is the thread where we emphatically prove that evolution is a hoax.

I hate to have to hurt all those evolution religion believers' feelings. But it is better that their feelings are hurt here, so that they find God and get saved.

Evolution is a hoax.

You brought up the C&E and the watchmaker argument.  So answer the question.

What is God and how was 'He' created?

PS. I did not know God had a penis, but if you insist, I will go with it.  So we know he has a penis, what else can you tell me about him?

[styca]

PS. I did not know God had a penis, but if you insist, I will go with it.

Careful, lest He smite you with It.