[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented

[magneto]

I used chipmixer a few days ago and I got tricked, after sending my coins I got 3 small chips with the promise of merging them to get a big chip but the merging button wasn't working then I had to pay fees 3 times with one time of my main deposit, literally I lost 20% of my coins just paying fees. lol

Hmm, Chipmixer definitely didn't do this on purpose. It is likely a bug of some kind. I haven't yet tested out the new site after it got a makeover but i can't see anyone else complaining about this issue, so it could be something on your end as well.

Either way, please contact chipmixer support. They'll probably refund you the difference in fees because it's a small amount involved here. As you know bitcoin miner fees are quite high and you can't really blame chipmixer for it.

Hopefully your next coin mixing experience will be somewhat better.

[1714140190]

1714140190

[1714140190]

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[Yuuto]

We have received reply from Electrum author. Plugin won't be included in wallet by default. Author believes it would create a law risk to add mixer into wallet. Our hook was merged so our plugin will work with new version, but it will need to be installed separately.

We have published an article at r/Bitcoin about how to use ChipMixer to avoid upcoming "declare cryptocurrencies" US law: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6jzc41/easy_way_to_avoid_upcoming_us_declare_btc_law/

Just saw this update.

Even though it's not included in Electrum by default, at least there is somewhere to download it! So good job devs of Chipmixer, we all appreciate your work and trying to improve the user experience of bitcoin in general.

Using a mixer isn't being paranoid, it's simply one extra step for anyone trying to track you down to go through. It won't give you perfect anonymity but it will be light years ahead of the anonymity bitcoin provides. Chipmixer is a great way to start if you haven't used their service yet, it's quite newbie friendly, and it's free too.

[EXtremeAEX]

Is the video not up yet? Right now its just an image placeholder for a video. I believe a video would be really helpful for new users.

I have still have one thing which I still cannot figure out, please enlighten me. When you deposit into an address, the chips are claimed to be already credited in the account via different sizes of chips, and how is this done so? It says that it the amount would already be there, so your deposit have no connection with the mixer chips. How does this work?

[Kyraishi]

Is the video not up yet? Right now its just an image placeholder for a video. I believe a video would be really helpful for new users.

Don't think so, at least not yet.

I have still have one thing which I still cannot figure out, please enlighten me. When you deposit into an address, the chips are claimed to be already credited in the account via different sizes of chips, and how is this done so? It says that it the amount would already be there, so your deposit have no connection with the mixer chips. How does this work?

Okay, so what happens is chipmixer gets previous user funds, sends them as different outputs(0.001 BTC, 0.002 BTC etc.) to addresses to fund individual "chips". This way, your privacy is guaranteed as the coin comes from a pool of user funds, and it is definitely not your coin because it is done before the whole mixing process starts. Then when you deposit you'll get aforementioned chips that add up to the value of your deposit. Simple as that, yet very secure and private.

[Muhammed Zakir]

  -snip-

I have still have one thing which I still cannot figure out, please enlighten me. When you deposit into an address, the chips are claimed to be already credited in the account via different sizes of chips, and how is this done so? It says that it the amount would already be there, so your deposit have no connection with the mixer chips. How does this work?

Okay, so what happens is chipmixer gets previous user funds, sends them as different outputs(0.001 BTC, 0.002 BTC etc.) to addresses to fund individual "chips". This way, your privacy is guaranteed as the coin comes from a pool of user funds, and it is definitely not your coin because it is done before the whole mixing process starts. Then when you deposit you'll get aforementioned chips that add up to the value of your deposit. Simple as that, yet very secure and private.

Assuming chips in ChipMixer as "poker chips"(chips in casinos) may make understanding them easier.

[btcney]

Assuming chips in ChipMixer as "poker chips"(chips in casinos) may make understanding them easier.

Correct, i think that was the sort of thing that the Chipmixer team was aiming for as well.

The whole concept is quite easy to undrestand actually. But the "chips" make it impossible for chipmixer to reuse funds from your address, thus ensuring better anonymity than what you'd get from a normal bitcoin wallet.

I just saw Chipmixer's post on reddit as well regarding their way to combat the new regulations. I was wondering though, you can just have a 2-2 multisig and leave one of the keys at home or in the possession of a friend as well right?

[Muhammed Zakir]

Assuming chips in ChipMixer as "poker chips"(chips in casinos) may make understanding them easier.

Correct, i think that was the sort of thing that the Chipmixer team was aiming for as well.

The whole concept is quite easy to undrestand actually. But the "chips" make it impossible for chipmixer to reuse funds from your address, thus ensuring better anonymity than what you'd get from a normal bitcoin wallet.

I just saw Chipmixer's post on reddit as well regarding their way to combat the new regulations. I was wondering though, you can just have a 2-2 multisig and leave one of the keys at home or in the possession of a friend as well right?

Yes. You can keep one for yourself and one to whomever you want.

* Don't send your private key to someone you don't trust.

P.S. Main point in ChipMixer's post in Reddit  is timelock [1] transaction, not multisig.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Timelock

[magneto]

Yes. You can keep one for yourself and one to whomever you want.

* Don't send your private key to someone you don't trust.

P.S. Main point in ChipMixer's post in Reddit  is timelock [1] transaction, not multisig.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Timelock

Great explanation.

Basically, the proof section of the Chipmixer site is its main provably fair mechanism, since it publishes private keys every single day to prove that bets aren't rigged. What you can do is create a multisig wallet with one of your own private keys and the other as Chipmixer's private key, and voila, your coins aren't technically yours anymore.

I have a question - if your coins are in multisig at the time of a hard fork, what will happen to your funds? Is there any way that Chipmixer can offer this service trustlessly as well, for example with nlocktime?

[xypos]

I really do think that after you guys added the provably fair mechanism for betting, as well as being able to commonize, merge split chips etc. and having a completely new designed site you guys are definitely in the top 3 choices for bitcoin mixers around at the moment.

However as someone above me mentioned, i don't think that the youtube video works yet? It's just an image i think, if you click on it nothing ahppens.

On reddit there are a lot of criticism, i don't think it's fair. First of all, chipmixer does not know who uses their provably fair betting service as a way to timelock coins to basically bypass future restrictions(potentially), therefore even if they wanted to extort someone they don't know who to target. Secondly, chipmixer has spent already at least 5-10 btc on advertising and is probably going to spend a lot more in the future, and i don't even think that people are going to send more than 1 btc into their multisig address. I really do think that chipmixer is trying to offer a genuine service to the benefit of the community here.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Yes. You can keep one for yourself and one to whomever you want.

* Don't send your private key to someone you don't trust.

P.S. Main point in ChipMixer's post in Reddit  is timelock [1] transaction, not multisig.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Timelock

Great explanation.

Basically, the proof section of the Chipmixer site is its main provably fair mechanism, since it publishes private keys every single day to prove that bets aren't rigged. What you can do is create a multisig wallet with one of your own private keys and the other as Chipmixer's private key, and voila, your coins aren't technically yours anymore.

So you must be careful in choosing whom to add as a cosigner and not to create a 2-of-2 multisig address with a party who could potentially not sign your transaction. Otherwise, you will loose your coins send to that address. For example, you used 2-of-2 multisig when trading and you had an argument with the buyer/seller, he could decide not to sign transaction and you will loose your Bitcoin. Vice versa, you can do the same too! For trading, it's better to include one or more trusted third party depending on the trade as a cosigner, creating a 2-of-3 multisig address or m-of-n multisig address, n>=3 & m<n.

I have a question - if your coins are in multisig at the time of a hard fork, what will happen to your funds?

Multisig addresses are no different than normal address when it comes to transaction other than 2 or more signatures are required to send Bitcoin in it. Therefore, if there is a hardfork, you can broadcast your transaction into both chains or you can use a client which supports the chain you want. Usually, wallets choose a chain which is technically better/correct or widely accepted.


There is no "coins" in blockchain, only outputs. When a hardfork happens, blockchain will be split into. A chain on top of the blockchain without new rules and a blockchain with new rules. Outputs after hardfork in a chain will be invalid in the other blockchain. When choosing a chain, you must be careful not to chose a chain which nobody or very few people use because you can not broadcast a transaction which includes an output in a blockchain, to other chain.

If you don't understand, consider the current blockchain as a "path", say main_path. What happens when hardforking is, like the path being split into two different paths, say path 1(chain 1) & path 2(chain 2). You can choose which one to walk on  -- choose chain.

• Now, consider you are walking on main_path and you or someone stored something, say money, in a place along the way -- a transaction in current blockchain.
• You go on main_path and at the end, you are met with two paths, path 1 & path 2  -- hardfork
• You choose path 1  -- chain 1.
  
• You or someone else deposited money in a place on path 1  -- sending/receiving transaction in chain 1
• Let's say, after sometime, you want to take all the money you stored along the way. -- sending output
• Regardless of the path(path 1 & path 2) you want to walk to, you *will* have to go through main_path  -- current blockchain.
• You can take money deposited in main_path regardless of which path you want to go *to* because to get to path 1 or path 2, you have to go through main_path  --  using output in main chain in a transaction and broadcasting it to either of the chains - chain 1 & chain 2.

Now, consider these questions:

Q) Will you be able to get your deposit(output) in path 1(chain 1), if you go through path 2(chain 2)?
A) No.

Q) Doesn't that mean that if you send Bitcoin in chain 1, then that transaction won't be shown in chain 2?
A) Yes.

Q) If so, doesn't that mean we can spend double-spend?
A) Yes. But do note that, outputs in only *one* chain will be valuable.

Q) But, how do I know which chain to follow?
A) You can follow a chain which is followed by most.

Q) I followed a chain and there were many who used that blockchain. My transactions are all in blocks belonging to that chain. What do I do if no one uses that chain anymore? Can I recover my Bitcoin?
A) Your Bitcoin in main_chain will be there in the other blockchain even if you have already used it in the "wrong" chain. All the Bitcoin you received after hardfork, that is, when you used "wrong" chain, will be lost. You have to tell senders to resend Bitcoin to new address and this time, broadcast transaction to the "current/accepted" chain.

Did I miss anything or can't you understand someting? Feel free to ask in *another thread*.

Don't understand you understand anything at all? Ask your questions/doubts in a new thread and someone will answer you.

*  Word "output" here refers to UTXO(unspent transaction output).

Is there any way that Chipmixer can offer this service trustlessly as well, for example with nlocktime?

I am not sure how ChipMixer does it. But, there is already a wallet which use nLocktime. You may have heard about it. It is called GreenAddress.

https://greenaddress.it/

[Muhammed Zakir]

  -snip-
However as someone above me mentioned, i don't think that the youtube video works yet? It's just an image i think, if you click on it nothing ahppens.

Yes, it is just an image.

On reddit there are a lot of criticism, i don't think it's fair. First of all, chipmixer does not know who uses their provably fair betting service as a way to timelock coins to basically bypass future restrictions(potentially), therefore even if they wanted to extort someone they don't know who to target. Secondly, chipmixer has spent already at least 5-10 btc on advertising and is probably going to spend a lot more in the future, and i don't even think that people are going to send more than 1 btc into their multisig address. I really do think that chipmixer is trying to offer a genuine service to the benefit of the community here.

A user may not deposit a big amount, maybe 10 BTC at a time. And yes, if they have spent more than 10 BTC as cost, then stealing it won't make sense. At best, they would break-even, which also doesn't make sense. However, you are only talking about it in the perspective "1 user deposit x amount". What you must consider is that if every user deposit 1 BTC each, it going to be a big amount. If there are looking for short-term profit, they might as well steal them.* So it is not hard to understand many of them are against ChipMixer's service because they just don't have enough trust.

* I am not saying ChipMixer will actually steal from you! I don't have any particular comment on whether they will steal or not. Anyway, you should never trust *any* online service with money more than you can afford to lose.

[ranlo]

Yes. You can keep one for yourself and one to whomever you want.

* Don't send your private key to someone you don't trust.

P.S. Main point in ChipMixer's post in Reddit  is timelock [1] transaction, not multisig.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Timelock

Great explanation.

Basically, the proof section of the Chipmixer site is its main provably fair mechanism, since it publishes private keys every single day to prove that bets aren't rigged. What you can do is create a multisig wallet with one of your own private keys and the other as Chipmixer's private key, and voila, your coins aren't technically yours anymore.

So you must be careful in choosing whom to add as a cosigner and not to create a 2-of-2 multisig address with a party who could potentially not sign your transaction. Otherwise, you will loose your coins send to that address. For example, you used 2-of-2 multisig when trading and you had an argument with the buyer/seller, he could decide not to sign transaction and you will loose your Bitcoin. Vice versa, you can do the same too! For trading, it's better to include one or more trusted third party depending on the trade as a cosigner, creating a 2-of-3 multisig address or m-of-n multisig address, n>=3 & m<n.

I have a question - if your coins are in multisig at the time of a hard fork, what will happen to your funds?

Multisig addresses are no different than normal address when it comes to transaction other than 2 or more signatures are required to send Bitcoin in it. Therefore, if there is a hardfork, you can broadcast your transaction into both chains or you can use a client which supports the chain you want. Usually, wallets choose a chain which is technically better/correct or widely accepted.


There is no "coins" in blockchain, only outputs. When a hardfork happens, blockchain will be split into. A chain on top of the blockchain without new rules and a blockchain with new rules. Outputs after hardfork in a chain will be invalid in the other blockchain. When choosing a chain, you must be careful not to chose a chain which nobody or very few people use because you can not broadcast a transaction which includes an output in a blockchain, to other chain.

If you don't understand, consider the current blockchain as a "path", say main_path. What happens when hardforking is, like the path being split into two different paths, say path 1(chain 1) & path 2(chain 2). You can choose which one to walk on  -- choose chain.

• Now, consider you are walking on main_path and you or someone stored something, say money, in a place along the way -- a transaction in current blockchain.
• You go on main_path and at the end, you are met with two paths, path 1 & path 2  -- hardfork
• You choose path 1  -- chain 1.
  
• You or someone else deposited money in a place on path 1  -- sending/receiving transaction in chain 1
• Let's say, after sometime, you want to take all the money you stored along the way. -- sending output
• Regardless of the path(path 1 & path 2) you want to walk to, you *will* have to go through main_path  -- current blockchain.
• You can take money deposited in main_path regardless of which path you want to go *to* because to get to path 1 or path 2, you have to go through main_path  --  using output in main chain in a transaction and broadcasting it to either of the chains - chain 1 & chain 2.

Now, consider these questions:

Q) Will you be able to get your deposit(output) in path 1(chain 1), if you go through path 2(chain 2)?
A) No.

Q) Doesn't that mean that if you send Bitcoin in chain 1, then that transaction won't be shown in chain 2?
A) Yes.

Q) If so, doesn't that mean we can spend double-spend?
A) Yes. But do note that, outputs in only *one* chain will be valuable.

Q) But, how do I know which chain to follow?
A) You can follow a chain which is followed by most.

Q) I followed a chain and there were many who used that blockchain. My transactions are all in blocks belonging to that chain. What do I do if no one uses that chain anymore? Can I recover my Bitcoin?
A) Your Bitcoin in main_chain will be there in the other blockchain even if you have already used it in the "wrong" chain. All the Bitcoin you received after hardfork, that is, when you used "wrong" chain, will be lost. You have to tell senders to resend Bitcoin to new address and this time, broadcast transaction to the "current/accepted" chain.

Did I miss anything or can't you understand someting? Feel free to ask in *another thread*.

Don't understand you understand anything at all? Ask your questions/doubts in a new thread and someone will answer you.

*  Word "output" here refers to UTXO(unspent transaction output).

Is there any way that Chipmixer can offer this service trustlessly as well, for example with nlocktime?

I am not sure how ChipMixer does it. But, there is already a wallet which use nLocktime. You may have heard about it. It is called GreenAddress.

https://greenaddress.it/

I love your explanation here, and it's pretty much dead on aside from one part: the assumption that both chains won't be valuable. There's really no way to tell what's going to happen yet. Both chains could theoretically retain the same value (which we'd assume would be halved, such that they are each combined to equal what it's worth now). BTC's split is going to be vastly different from Eth's.

[ChipMixer]

I used chipmixer a few days ago and I got tricked, after sending my coins I got 3 small chips with the promise of merging them to get a big chip but the merging button wasn't working then I had to pay fees 3 times with one time of my main deposit, literally I lost 20% of my coins just paying fees. lol

If you are not satisfied with our service, please contact support in 48h (while your session is not yet deleted) and we can help you. Waiting few days then writing on forum while advertising bitmixer looks bit weird.

(removed for short quote)

Great post.

About not working video - it is a placeholder for upcoming animation that will show how ChipMixer works. It is not ready yet, we have released new layout without it.

[Muhammed Zakir]

  -snip-

I love your explanation here, and it's pretty much dead on aside from one part: the assumption that both chains won't be valuable. There's really no way to tell what's going to happen yet. Both chains could theoretically retain the same value (which we'd assume would be halved, such that they are each combined to equal what it's worth now). BTC's split is going to be vastly different from Eth's.

Thanks! TBH, if that really happened, I think Bitcoin might loose many users. Hope it won't happen and even if it did, hope won't deprecate Bitcoin'a value. By value, I mean value as in esconomy and society and so forth.. Not exchange rate.

  -snip-

(removed for short quote)

Great post.

Thanks!

About not working video - it is a placeholder for upcoming animation that will show how ChipMixer works. It is not ready yet, we have released new layout without it.

I think you should just remove the placeholder altogether until video is created. Or at least, add a short note saying video is not ready yet or something like that to avoid confusion.

[Kyraishi]

If you are not satisfied with our service, please contact support in 48h (while your session is not yet deleted) and we can help you. Waiting few days then writing on forum while advertising bitmixer looks bit weird.

I have a question that probably a lot of users just starting to use chipmixer will probably share. What if the session is automatically destroyed after 48h and something happens, say the funds get stolen/private key doesn't work? Will support be able to help the user then?

About not working video - it is a placeholder for upcoming animation that will show how ChipMixer works. It is not ready yet, we have released new layout without it.

Wow, i'm looking forward to this.

I think that CM has a real chance to make an impact in the bitcoin mixing industry. It actually offers a lot more than just a standard mixer, you can use it for a lot of purposes if you are creative. For instance, the betting proof can be used as a way to basically bypass certain oppressive laws. Though, i don't think that the betting proof page is in the navigation bar? You should probably add that next

[Anegg]

We have received reply from Electrum author. Plugin won't be included in wallet by default. Author believes it would create a law risk to add mixer into wallet. Our hook was merged so our plugin will work with new version, but it will need to be installed separately.

We have published an article at r/Bitcoin about how to use ChipMixer to avoid upcoming "declare cryptocurrencies" US law: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6jzc41/easy_way_to_avoid_upcoming_us_declare_btc_law/

Good thinking! Having mixing in your wallet will definetly make it a bit risky and that might cause your product to get banned, it's a good idea but unfortunately I didn't work out the way you wanted it to. At least the plugin is a bit of a compromise.

Read the article and it seems to be well written, should definelty attract some attention to your service.

I think that the rate your going CM you have a real chance of becoming the most popular mixing service, especially with all these features. It really differentiaties you guys from just being average, to being excellent. Good luck in the future chipmixer!

[cafucafucafu]

The idea of having the proof of betting as a way to sort of go pass the potentially devastating law regarding bitcoin and travellers is a great tool for anyone to use, in my opinion. Thank you devs for being creative in your ideas and not just sticking to the old bitcoin mixer sort of thing.

I used chipmixer a few days ago and I got tricked, after sending my coins I got 3 small chips with the promise of merging them to get a big chip but the merging button wasn't working then I had to pay fees 3 times with one time of my main deposit, literally I lost 20% of my coins just paying fees. lol

If you are not satisfied with our service, please contact support in 48h (while your session is not yet deleted) and we can help you. Waiting few days then writing on forum while advertising bitmixer looks bit weird.

I don't think that he is intentionally trying to say bad things about chipmixer whilst advertising a competitor. Though just like kyraishi asked, i'm wondering to like in this case if something goes wrong after 48h and you only post it after that timeframe, what will happen? Anything chipmixer can do to help after than 2 day period?

[LoyceV]

If you are not satisfied with our service, please contact support in 48h (while your session is not yet deleted) and we can help you. Waiting few days then writing on forum while advertising bitmixer looks bit weird.

I have a question that probably a lot of users just starting to use chipmixer will probably share. What if the session is automatically destroyed after 48h and something happens, say the funds get stolen/private key doesn't work? Will support be able to help the user then?

I thought about this while doing the alpha-testing. Let me go over both options:
"say the funds get stolen"
If this happens, there are several possibilities: It could be ChipMixer keeps copies of private keys and took your funds, but that would destroy their reputation instantly. It could be you're lying, hoping to get extra money, or just with the sole purpose of destroying ChipMixer's reputation in favour of competitors. It could be (and I think this is most likely) your own computer got compromised and someone stole your funds. If this happens, ChipMixer will get the blame anyway, while there is no way to prove who got compromised. I think this is a risk for ChipMixer's business model.
If you don't want to trust ChipMixer long-term with the private key they provided, a very simple solution is to just transfer the funds to an address you created by yourself.

"say private key doesn't work"
You can test this by importing the private key into any wallet to get the address associated with it. You can do this on an offline computer, or even from an Ubuntu Live CD using bitaddress.org's wallet software from a USB-stick. Then, you can check the balance of the address in any block explorer online.

[Barcode_]

I have personally used ChipMixer bitcoin mixing service a couple of times, and have never had any problems with the site, I really like the idea of giving the user a private key to access the funds. For the users that claims to have their funds stolen, maybe it would be good to do a malware scan on your device as it might have been compromise by some malicious software that could access your personal computer information.

[Jherek]

I have personally used ChipMixer bitcoin mixing service a couple of times, and have never had any problems with the site, I really like the idea of giving the user a private key to access the funds. For the users that claims to have their funds stolen, maybe it would be good to do a malware scan on your device as it might have been compromise by some malicious software that could access your personal computer information.

Your coins are only as safe as your computer, unfortunately.

This is the reason why you should not use Chipmixer whilst on public wifi, a public computer, or using an outdated laptop with no trustorthy antivirus on that machine. You're dealing with unencrypted private keys here, which means that anyone can import it anywhere, whenever they want without typing a password of some sort.

Therefore, it is logicla to sweep the keys as soon as you get them because you don't know who has access to these private keys. Chipmixer probably doesn't have any intentions to scam anyone, but after all they at least dealt with it once and if someone within their team got hold of sensitive information or a hack happens, then you're screwed. If you run everything safely though you'll find the mixing experience safe and enjoyable.