HEAT Discussion and Technical info

[Eliphaz Fimk]

Is there a leasing calculator somewhere? I can not find one.

Thanks for the bump, sourcing community for existing one or getting it done.

unfortunately almost no volume, and i can't understand?

It'll be fixed. Most focus will be on massively increasing the Heatwallet volume as helping crypto migrate to DEXes is the point, not trading HEAT coin on some soon declining centralized 3rd party. Trading HEAT or its tokens on other decentralized exchanges is however being considered.

[Babad00k]

Is there a leasing calculator somewhere? I can not find one.

Thanks for the bump, sourcing community for existing one or getting it done.

unfortunately almost no volume, and i can't understand?

It'll be fixed. Most focus will be on massively increasing the Heatwallet volume as helping crypto migrate to DEXes is the point, not trading HEAT coin on some soon declining centralized 3rd party. Trading HEAT or its tokens on other decentralized exchanges is however being considered.

Would you mind elaborating a bit more in rg to Heat DEX? What will happen in the rest of 2018. What q1 2019? For now, no real DEX has taken off, but lots are in the finalising stage. Whats the status of HEAT exchange?

Have you considered making the HEAT token sort of a token that gives benefits when using on the exchange, like BNB coin maybe?

[Qiuyue201_real]

LOL, I am not sure if this Tetra guy is trolling or serious. I mean, dude, if you really believe you have a case here, please feel free to proceed, because right now noone is taking you seriously, and you seem like empty worded fudder. Constantly reposting the same message is one thing and acting is another. If you really would have the knowledge and means to start a case you would already do it, this is why I think it is a bluff and you are probably just someone that sold at the bottom. And to be fair, yes, I know this project faild as an investment, but so did many others, when you invest in startups and crypto startups especially in most cases you don't make profits, noone is threatening (or rather falsely threatening) to sue anyone.

[Qiuyue201_real]

The point is that I need the community to support it.
I alone have no case as I don't own enough of the company according to the whitepaper

Apart from that they own about 20 Million Dollars from speculating with the investors funds. It's not just a failed project.

100% of the compny ownership is in hands of people who started this startup and even if all members of the community would like to support your case, they would still not have the rights to the company. Developers are considering to sell the company shares but that would require you to buy them. IMO this is just a failed startup project, like many others in this space.

[lemonandfriesonetwo]

The point is that I need the community to support it.
I alone have no case as I don't own enough of the company according to the whitepaper

Apart from that they own about 20 Million Dollars from speculating with the investors funds. It's not just a failed project.

100% of the compny ownership is in hands of people who started this startup and even if all members of the community would like to support your case, they would still not have the rights to the company. Developers are considering to sell the company shares but that would require you to buy them. IMO this is just a failed startup project, like many others in this space.

There is no case, unless someone can show this is a true scam but the devs have never exit scammed so you can assume it's still a start up with an unpredictable future.

[tetra]

Okay. I was just banned from the Discord for asking critical questions again.

Just stay away from this project.
Censorship and manipulaton continue to be the main theme

P.S.

I still offer to lead a lawsuit to dissolve the company, capitalize its assets and distribute them to the community

This should get them into prison and save everybodies investments

It was a whitepaper promise to sell shares, so either they dont enact it which is committing fraud or they have to adhere to it.

Either way, the community has the power to make it a case. But just the community as a whole



Moreover they are deleting selected posts to distort the image of the conversation here on the forum

[Qiuyue201_real]

Well, that would be amazing if the things would work like that and you could simply sue the company behind your every bad investment. Things don’t work like that though. We all took a gamble like we always do in crypto, we took the risk that things might get delivered or might not be delivered, the project failed like most startups and that’s it. Seriously would be fun to see things work like that.

[tetra]

The project may have failed, but as mentioned before, due to speculation with the investors funds, there is still a lot of liquidity in the company

[Qiuyue201_real]

Once again, not trying to disencourage you, because if you have any means to get our money back than go for it, but the money was donated to them in exchange for the coins, so they can do what they please with it.

[tetra]

Which is not true because they came with certain promises

[Qiuyue201_real]

I think I get it where is the misunderstanding. You seem to look at this as guarantees, while people generally tend to consider it plans that might or might be delivered. I think it will be very hard to persuade people for legal action because when a project flops people just move to the next project but just in case you manage to somehow pull this off let us know, however IMO things will probably end like with most failed crypto projects - no new people coming in, ICO investors moving to new projects, devs slowly closing the project.

[lemonandfriesonetwo]

Which is not true because they came with certain promises

State your sources/proof for this claim of "promises".

[tetra]

The whitepaper. Which is, why I assume that if the promises there aren't kept (in the regard as to who owns what) it would be committing fraud.
But as said, I alone can't do anything. I just offer to lead the move if the community supports it

[lemonandfriesonetwo]

The whitepaper. Which is, why I assume that if the promises there aren't kept (in the regard as to who owns what) it would be committing fraud.
But as said, I alone can't do anything. I just offer to lead the move if the community supports it

Please point to the instances where it is mentioned in the white paper.

Assuming you have read the white paper, you should be able to quickly point out which page and paragraph your statement originated from.

[tetra]

Okay its not in the whitepaper, maybe I remembered that wrong, but its in the opening post:


IPO STOCK OPTIONS FOR HEAT TOKENS

Heat Ledger Ltd will arrange share release of private stock equity in Q2 - Q3 2017. Approximately 50,000 to 62,500 company shares are planned to be available for the public to constitute 20% - 25% of total company equity. HEAT token holders who participate in round 1 ICO and hold their tokens will receive options that entitle for 50% minimum rebate from IPO share price.


Although I know that the rules around that have changed every now and then and I don't know the current stance - anyway it should be enough

[lemonandfriesonetwo]

Okay its not in the whitepaper, maybe I remembered that wrong, but its in the opening post:


IPO STOCK OPTIONS FOR HEAT TOKENS

Heat Ledger Ltd will arrange share release of private stock equity in Q2 - Q3 2017. Approximately 50,000 to 62,500 company shares are planned to be available for the public to constitute 20% - 25% of total company equity. HEAT token holders who participate in round 1 ICO and hold their tokens will receive options that entitle for 50% minimum rebate from IPO share price.


Although I know that the rules around that have changed every now and then and I don't know the current stance - anyway it should be enough

Clarify again where it states anything they promised?

Are you just mad you're not a millionaire by now, maybe you invested more than you could bite and now are regretting it in this down market Bitcoin is experiencing in general.

[tetra]

Okay, what about it do you not understand?
The issuance of shares?
The entitlement for HEAT token holders?

And please don't come with that argument Ive been in crypto for more than one bubble

[Qiuyue201_real]

While I think that Tetra's attempts to get back any money from the project will be futile, I have to give it to him, that he is right about the promises.

There are many things that were promised and not delivered, just to quote some from the original post of the ICO thread:

4.  Transaction throughput rate initially in the 1000 tps scale on legacy hardware
5.  Unlimited scalability depending on node hardware: Boost rates of 10k+ tps on standard 4-core Linux server
15.  Offline smart vouchers (fully signed transactions that can be sent to the blockchain by anyone.)
18.  Multicurrency crypto client enabling non-gateway direct crypto transfer
19.  Built-in non-gateway (direct real crypto) p2p exchange for client supported crypto
20.  Custom tokens, private tokens, colored accounts and white label software cloning readiness
21.  Multisig for FIAT currency tokens and several main target use cases:
       a. Simply value adding feature for the crypto client user security
       b. Facilitating implementation of p2p live crypto trading (asset exchange tokens auto match multisig real crypto)
       c. Enabling crowdfunding security and direct intake of funds (also “real” gated EUR, USD that have multisig security)
       d. Unique sales point: Multisig Fiat currency
22.  Crowdfunding / IPO capabilities heavily emphasized:
       a. Readily on-blockchain for DIY agile companies / geeks
       b. Licensed fintech corporate partner for turnkey crowdfunding service
26.  Major licensed corporate partners in crowdfunding, fiat currency token transfer and BTC exchange areas
27.  ICO tokens reward stock options for startup company IPO shares at lower price later in 2016

The difference is, that Tetra (and some other people) took it as guarantees and now are disappointed that the project failed. The thing is that most startups fail, and as I stated before, you need to look not only at what project wants to deliver (the guarantees) but also if it will deliver this. Did HEAT promise all this? Yes. Did the project fail? Yes. Will they give us money back? No, because we took a risk and lost on this particular startup.

Both groups (the one that is raging to get their money back and the one that is believing HEAT somehow magically will recover on the next bull run) are wrong.
Info for the first group: no, HEAT will not give you money back, because you donated it to them based on the promises and your estimation of how probable it is that they will actually deliver. Promises were good but delivery failed.
Info for the second group: no, HEAT will not somehow magically go up on the next bull run. Actually, the next bull run will kill failed projects that are still around, because this is what bull runs do - they make already successful projects go even higher and they clean the cryptosphere of the failed projects. Did the 2017 bullrun made FIMK (HEAT team's previous project) skyrocket? No. Will the next bullrun make HEAT skyrocket? No.

Just be responsible people, accept the risk it takes to invest in crypto.

[Qiuyue201_real]

I am not saying this is good. I am just saying this is how things work.
People willingly donated 1 million USD to the startup based on both the promises and their chances of delivery.
The startup chose not to sell that 1 million USD in crypto for FIAT but instead kept it and multiplied it thanks to both bitcoin price appreciation and additional coins from forks, which was good move on their side and not every project behaves like that (for example Augur, which was first Ethereum ICO, has almost no funds, since they immediately converted most of it to FIAT). So the fact that they have now 20 million instead of 1 million is thanks to their skills/choices and congratulations to them, they fully deserve to keep it. It is all good, even if they decide to pay out 19 million as salary bouns that is fair. What is not fair though is that they promised some things and those things were not delivered. Yes, we have to say it once again - the project failed, it is a failure, what was promised was not delivered and who knows how much of those 1 million USD was spend towards achieving this goal and how much was spent on business trips in luxury hotels. That being said, it was our duty to do proper due dilligence and we failed to correctly estimate how solid is the team (it is not solid), what is their success history (previous projects failed) etc. It was their mistake that the project failed but it was our mistake to invest in it. Fingers crossed for everyone, who is attemtping to salvage anything from this, but IMO this is not how things work in crypto and in startup business in general - if startups fails investors simply move to other startups and stop investing the initial startup in secondary rounds, which is basically happening here (HEAT ICO investors moved to other projects alredy with some exceptions, new investors / secondary rounds are not coming). Nothing to see here, just better luck next time. But really curious how long people from both groups (both: "give me back my money" and "HEAT will recover") will hang around here.

[tetra]

Doesn't that make you angry?

I do get angry.

And of course it is impossible to say what a court will say to this (Finnish jurisdiction, not American one..I doubt they judge as liberally as Americans) but as I said, I regard this as either comitting fraud, or the community actually owning a lot of money in a (yes, failed) company and therefore being elligible to retrieve it.

I don't want to silently sit by and let them retrieve money that they got by deception.

Okay, let me concretize...are there 5 people willing to join me in bringing this to court?