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[BlockaFett]

So this is the Monero lead dev and owner of MyMonero.com, where aparently 50% of Monero wallets reside.

We've published absolutely no stats, and it's impossible to determine how many Monero "wallets" there are, so where do you get that figure from? Stop lying, BlockaFett, it's unbecoming and unprofessional.

No disrepect Fluffy but that is a deflection.

I would like to get an answer to this, I think it's fair seeing as you are here making the accusation

you said:

absolutely nothing to do with Dash being correctly marked as a significantly premined cryptocurrency.

Stop trying to deflect.

I am asking:

"Pre" - means - "before" - as in "before the launch".

You are saying that CMC listing is correct because Dark were mined before the launch.

What is your proof?

[fluffypony]

No disrepect Fluffy but that is a deflection.

I would like to get an answer to this, I think it's fair seeing as you are here making the accusation

You see, it's this sort of behaviour that makes me wonder if you're either incredibly stupid or just trolling. I replied to that already. Best you read up, son: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11214972#msg11214972

[Lebubar]

-snip-

You call youurself a dev and you dont know what premine is. What a moron. DASH was not premined, and displaying it like that is incorrect and unprofessional from a site claiming to know what its doing.

+1

To say "** Significantly Premined"

It's simply FALSE!

[BlockaFett]

No disrepect Fluffy but that is a deflection.

I would like to get an answer to this, I think it's fair seeing as you are here making the accusation

you said:

absolutely nothing to do with Dash being correctly marked as a significantly premined cryptocurrency.

Stop trying to deflect.

I am asking:

"Pre" - means - "before" - as in "before the launch".

You are saying that CMC listing is correct because Dark were mined before the launch.

What is your proof?

You see, it's this sort of behaviour that makes me wonder if you're either incredibly stupid or just trolling. I replied to that already. Best you read up, son: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11214972#msg11214972

This sort of behaviour?

And where does it say that "significantly premined" is a generalization?

Premine term in crypto is a specific term that means Devs solo mine their currency before public launch

That's why we have a seperate term to describe situations where the Dev let others join the launch but the emission was high - "instamine" - and a third term for when the instamining dev doesn't deliver and dumps their coins - "instamine scam"

I call again for you to backup specifically how Dash is now a "premine" instead of an "instamine" as your dev team were posting hundreds of times in the last few weeks alone

If you can't, then you sir are disingenuous.  And given your position that as a Monero holder you would benefit from this, suggests something a lot worse.

Proof of premine please...

[fluffypony]

-scam supporting nonsense-

Another thing I find interesting is that the average block reward for the first 4500 Dash blocks (ie. the first 32.8 hours) is 443 Dash.

The average block reward for the 70 000-odd blocks since then is 33.5 Dash. What an incredible difference!

Truly, the gods must have shined upon those miners, as they simultaneously punished those who perhaps fell ill and didn't check Bitcointalk for a day. It really is clear that this is just a happy accident.

[BlockaFett]

No disrepect Fluffy but that is a deflection.

I would like to get an answer to this, I think it's fair seeing as you are here making the accusation

you said:

absolutely nothing to do with Dash being correctly marked as a significantly premined cryptocurrency.

Stop trying to deflect.

I am asking:

"Pre" - means - "before" - as in "before the launch".

You are saying that CMC listing is correct because Dark were mined before the launch.

What is your proof?

You see, it's this sort of behaviour that makes me wonder if you're either incredibly stupid or just trolling. I replied to that already. Best you read up, son: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11214972#msg11214972

This sort of behaviour?

And where does it say that "significantly premined" is a generalization?

Premine term in crypto is a specific term that means Devs solo mine their currency before public launch

That's why we have a seperate term to describe situations where the Dev let others join the launch but the emission was high - "instamine" - and a third term for when the instamining dev doesn't deliver and dumps their coins - "instamine scam"

I call again for you to backup specifically how Dash is now a "premine" instead of an "instamine" as your dev team were posting hundreds of times in the last few weeks alone

If you can't, then you sir are disingenuous.  And given your position that as a Monero holder you would benefit from this, suggests something a lot worse.

Proof of premine please...

Another thing I find interesting is that the average block reward for the first 4500 Dash blocks (ie. the first 32.8 hours) is 443 Dash.

The average block reward for the 70 000-odd blocks since then is 33.5 Dash. What an incredible difference!

Truly, the gods must have shined upon those miners, as they simultaneously punished those who perhaps fell ill and didn't check Bitcointalk for a day. It really is clear that this is just a happy accident.

Sorry to press the point FluffyPony but this is the 4th time I am having to ask you to backup the specific accusation you made that Dash is a premine.

Forgive me for pressing the point, but Dash is the leading anon coin and key competitor to Monero from your perspective.

If you accuse the Dash dev of mining coins before the launch in this case I think it's fair to demand an answer as to what evidence you have that anyone solo mined Dash before the public launch?

Please address this specifically, it's not fair on this thread to keep having to ask the same question.

[smooth]

what evidence you have that anyone solo mined Dash before the public launch?

Please address this specifically, it's not fair on this thread to keep having to ask the same question.

I answered you. The time of the "public launch" was very ambiguous. Evan said it was going to be in a few days, then he said tomorrow at the earliest, and "definitely" not in several hours. Then he gave a two hours notice and launched it anyway.

So when was this official "public launch"? Was it in a few days from Evan's statement? Was it tomorrow at the earliest? Was it not in several hours? Or was it two hours after his final notice?

There are many reasonable ways to interpret the mining as happening before the promised "public launch" and only one (maybe) reasonable way to interpret it has having happened after the "public launch". You really have to go out of your way to interpret it in the most favorable possible way for the mining to have not taken place before it should have, and even then, you are still left with a huge instamine over the next 1-30 hours.

Here are two guys at least who apparently weren't on the same page with this alleged "public launch"

Launch is being moved to 11PM EST!

... seriously?

Just woke up to this How many hours have I lost?

[fluffypony]

-I refused to read the answer to that question, so I have to keep asking to make it look like I'm right and fluffypony is wrong-

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

[BlockaFett]

No disrepect Fluffy but that is a deflection.

I would like to get an answer to this, I think it's fair seeing as you are here making the accusation

you said:

absolutely nothing to do with Dash being correctly marked as a significantly premined cryptocurrency.

Stop trying to deflect.

I am asking:

"Pre" - means - "before" - as in "before the launch".

You are saying that CMC listing is correct because Dark were mined before the launch.

What is your proof?

You see, it's this sort of behaviour that makes me wonder if you're either incredibly stupid or just trolling. I replied to that already. Best you read up, son: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11214972#msg11214972

This sort of behaviour?

And where does it say that "significantly premined" is a generalization?

Premine term in crypto is a specific term that means Devs solo mine their currency before public launch

That's why we have a seperate term to describe situations where the Dev let others join the launch but the emission was high - "instamine" - and a third term for when the instamining dev doesn't deliver and dumps their coins - "instamine scam"

I call again for you to backup specifically how Dash is now a "premine" instead of an "instamine" as your dev team were posting hundreds of times in the last few weeks alone

If you can't, then you sir are disingenuous.  And given your position that as a Monero holder you would benefit from this, suggests something a lot worse.

Proof of premine please...

Another thing I find interesting is that the average block reward for the first 4500 Dash blocks (ie. the first 32.8 hours) is 443 Dash.

The average block reward for the 70 000-odd blocks since then is 33.5 Dash. What an incredible difference!

Truly, the gods must have shined upon those miners, as they simultaneously punished those who perhaps fell ill and didn't check Bitcointalk for a day. It really is clear that this is just a happy accident.

Sorry to press the point FluffyPony but this is the 4th time I am having to ask you to backup the specific accusation you made that Dash is a premine.

Forgive me for pressing the point, but Dash is the leading anon coin and key competitor to Monero from your perspective.

If you accuse the Dash dev of mining coins before the launch in this case I think it's fair to demand an answer as to what evidence you have that anyone solo mined Dash before the public launch?

Please address this specifically, it's not fair on this thread to keep having to ask the same question.

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

You are just describing the emission after the public launch...

This is the 5th time I have had to ask this.  You have been saying "instamine" for weeks, now you are saying "premine" and I am just asking a simple question why and what is your evidence..

What is you're evidence that coins were mined before the public launch (pre-mine)

If you don't have evidence as I suspect can you correct your statements please?

[fluffypony]

-I'm now purposely choosing not to read the answer because I struggle with reading comprehension-

Welcome to my ignore list! You are one of two people that has proved so bizarrely retarded that I can no longer stomach reading your puerile vomit without feeling quite ill.

[BlockaFett]

absolutely nothing to do with Dash being correctly marked as a significantly premined cryptocurrency.

Stop trying to deflect.

So this is the Monero lead dev and owner of MyMonero.com, where aparently 50% of Monero wallets reside.

He is now saying it is correct to say Dash is a "premine", which is new because until recently he was saying it was an "instamine".

"Pre" - means - "before" - as in "before the launch".

You are saying that CMC listing is correct because Dark were mined before the launch.

Proof now please...

We've published absolutely no stats, and it's impossible to determine how many Monero "wallets" there are, so where do you get that figure from? Stop lying, BlockaFett, it's unbecoming and unprofessional.

No disrepect Fluffy but that is a deflection.

I would like to get an answer to this, I think it's fair seeing as you are here making the accusation

you said:

absolutely nothing to do with Dash being correctly marked as a significantly premined cryptocurrency.

Stop trying to deflect.

I am asking:

"Pre" - means - "before" - as in "before the launch".

You are saying that CMC listing is correct because Dark were mined before the launch.

What is your proof?

You see, it's this sort of behaviour that makes me wonder if you're either incredibly stupid or just trolling. I replied to that already. Best you read up, son: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11214972#msg11214972

This sort of behaviour?

And where does it say that "significantly premined" is a generalization?

Premine term in crypto is a specific term that means Devs solo mine their currency before public launch

That's why we have a seperate term to describe situations where the Dev let others join the launch but the emission was high - "instamine" - and a third term for when the instamining dev doesn't deliver and/or dumps their coins - "instamine scam"

I call again for you to backup specifically how Dash is now a "premine" instead of an "instamine" as your dev team were posting hundreds of times in the last few weeks alone

If you can't, then you sir are disingenuous.  And given your position that as a Monero holder you would benefit from this...

Proof of premine please...

Another thing I find interesting is that the average block reward for the first 4500 Dash blocks (ie. the first 32.8 hours) is 443 Dash.

The average block reward for the 70 000-odd blocks since then is 33.5 Dash. What an incredible difference!

Truly, the gods must have shined upon those miners, as they simultaneously punished those who perhaps fell ill and didn't check Bitcointalk for a day. It really is clear that this is just a happy accident.

Sorry to press the point FluffyPony but this is the 4th time I am having to ask you to backup the specific accusation you made that Dash is a premine.

Forgive me for pressing the point, but Dash is the leading anon coin and key competitor to Monero from your perspective.

If you accuse the Dash dev of mining coins before the launch in this case I think it's fair to demand an answer as to what evidence you have that anyone solo mined Dash before the public launch?

Please address this specifically, it's not fair on this thread to keep having to ask the same question.

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

You are just describing the emission after the public launch...

This is the 5th time I have had to ask this.  You have been saying "instamine" for weeks, now you are saying "premine" and I am just asking a simple question why and what is your evidence..

What is you're evidence that coins were mined before the public launch (pre-mine)

If you don't have evidence as I suspect can you correct your statements please?

Welcome to my ignore list! You are one of two people that has proved so bizarrely retarded that I can no longer stomach reading your puerile vomit without feeling quite ill.

Can't say that i'm surprised that you avoided answering this question FluffyPony.

It's a sad day in Crypto when people like you and Smooth, the core devs of a top 20 coin, can actually start to succeed in changing information around the crypto space for your own benefit.

And I hope CMC does some proper research into the Dash launch and if it won't remove the premine accusation, explain what is the evidence that Dash coins were mined privately & exclusively by the developers before the launch, because evidently you can't provide this evidence, despite claiming it yourself and petitioning CMC to do this on your behalf...

And if CMC extends the ** definition to combine coins mined pre-launch with coins with public launches like your Monero core team is pushing them to do, that is sad too because I think most visitors will want to know the difference between a centralized, private launch than a decentralized public launch where anyone can join in..or what is going on here?

[reflexmk]

-snip-

You call youurself a dev and you dont know what premine is. What a moron. DASH was not premined, and displaying it like that is incorrect and unprofessional from a site claiming to know what its doing.

-snip-

Put CoinMarketCap asside, lets here it from you, a simple YES or NO, was DASH premined ? As in mined before launch? Please be simple in your answer.

[smooth]

I already answered on the previous page:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11215454#msg11215454

I happen to think its a sad day in crypto when you can do all kinds of shady stuff to a launch that misleads people into not mining at all, don't have Windows versions, mine out a crapload of coins (far, far more than disclosed in the announcement/formulas) in 30 hours (really 1-8 hours) when hardly anyone is paying attention, cut the subsequent mining to further increase the effective size of the crapload, and then go say "oh its not a premine, please don't tag us."

It's highly relevant information that an enormous portion of the float was basically distributed to a few lucky and/or connected people in just hours under very questionable circumstances. It's appalling but totally understandable from a greed perspective that people want to suppress that sort of disclosure and treat coins with a bizarre and twisted version of public mining as being mined normally. They're not.

[BlockaFett]

I already answered on the previous page:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11215454#msg11215454

I happen to think its a sad day in crypto when you can do all kinds of shady stuff to a launch that misleads people into not mining at all, don't have Windows versions, mine out a crapload of coins in 30 hours (really 1-8 hours) when hardly anyone is paying attention, and then go say "oh its not a premine, please don't tag us."

It's highly relevant information that an enormous portions of the float was basically distributed to a few lucky and/or connected people in hours under very questionable circumstances. It's appalling but totally understandable from a greed perspective that people want to suppress that sort of disclosure and treat coins with some kind of bizarre and twisted version of public as being mined normally. They're not.

Hi Smooth

I am waiting for a response from Fluffy to his premine accusation.

You changed your story today, now you and Fluffy are saying "premine" same time CMC does, before today you always said "instamine".

And your above link is just pure speculation, doesn't explain why today you discovered a premine? -

post here the blocks from the premine please so we can investigate?

And till waiting for an official explanation of premine evidence from the Monero lead FluffyPony that I asked 5 times and got no response.

cheers

[smooth]

I already answered on the previous page:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11215454#msg11215454

I happen to think its a sad day in crypto when you can do all kinds of shady stuff to a launch that misleads people into not mining at all, don't have Windows versions, mine out a crapload of coins in 30 hours (really 1-8 hours) when hardly anyone is paying attention, and then go say "oh its not a premine, please don't tag us."

It's highly relevant information that an enormous portions of the float was basically distributed to a few lucky and/or connected people in hours under very questionable circumstances. It's appalling but totally understandable from a greed perspective that people want to suppress that sort of disclosure and treat coins with some kind of bizarre and twisted version of public as being mined normally. They're not.

Hi Smooth

I am waiting for a response from Fluffy to his premine accusation.

You changed your story today, now you and Fluffy are saying "premine" same time CMC does, before today you always said "instamine".

Not really. Personally I think its more of an instamine than a premine and I've consistently said so from my first post here on the topic (before the ** tag was added). I just think the premine label isn't without merit either given the extreme shadiness of this supposedly public launch.

And your above link is just pure speculation, doesn't explain why today you discovered a premine? -

Not one aspect of it is speculation. It is all fully documented here. See quotes at the bottom of the post.

post here the blocks from the premine please so we can investigate?

I don't know what blocks you are looking for. Check an explorer. Compare with the date "a few days" later when Evan said he was going to try the launch again. The blocks are before that.

[BlockaFett]

I already answered on the previous page:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11215454#msg11215454

I happen to think its a sad day in crypto when you can do all kinds of shady stuff to a launch that misleads people into not mining at all, don't have Windows versions, mine out a crapload of coins in 30 hours (really 1-8 hours) when hardly anyone is paying attention, and then go say "oh its not a premine, please don't tag us."

It's highly relevant information that an enormous portions of the float was basically distributed to a few lucky and/or connected people in hours under very questionable circumstances. It's appalling but totally understandable from a greed perspective that people want to suppress that sort of disclosure and treat coins with some kind of bizarre and twisted version of public as being mined normally. They're not.

Hi Smooth

I am waiting for a response from Fluffy to his premine accusation.

You changed your story today, now you and Fluffy are saying "premine" same time CMC does, before today you always said "instamine".

Not really. Personally I think its more of an instamine than a premine and I've consistently said so from my first post here on the topic (before the ** tag was added). I just think the premine thing isn't totally a slam dunk given the shadiness of this supposedly public launch.

And your above link is just pure speculation, doesn't explain why today you discovered a premine? -

Not one aspect of it is speculation. It is all fully documented here. See quotes at the bottom of the post.

post here the blocks from the premine please so we can investigate?

I don't know what blocks you are looking for. Check an explorer. Compare with the date "a few days" later when Evan said he was going to try the launch again. The blocks are before that.

We are talking specifically about the change now to "premine" from "instamine" - I know you are not happy about the Dash launch, you posted ~700 times on that recently I estimated, practically every day for the last 8 weeks.

"Personally I think its more of an instamine than a premine"

Starting to get really confused...premine has a specific definition - pre (before) mine...

how can something be mined more or less before launch?    It either was or wasn't, which?

Fluffy has made his accusation and then ran off when asked to prove it.

What are you saying, was Dash a "premine" - mining occurred before public launch - or not?

If it was...post your research so we can share and validate it.

If it wasn't, say so - you are both the Monero core devs and you now got CMC involved in this please be clear - yes or no?

[smooth]

Starting to get really confused...premine has a specific definition - pre (before) mine...

how can something be mined more or less before launch?    It either was or wasn't, which?

Because the time of "launch" was very ambiguous. You would come up with a very different time for "launch" depending on which statements from Evan you happened to see or believe.

I think you would have to agree this was not a situation where the launch was scheduled and announced a week ahead of time and went off when scheduled. At best it was very messy and suspicious.

If it was...post your research so we can share and validate it.

I've posted links to the relevant posts that give several different planned earliest launch times. There should be no issue with "validating" those. If you interpret those posts by Evan to mean that the mining started before it was supposed to (arguably days before) that could reasonably be considered a premine. 

yes or no?

I don't have a yes or no opinion, I think its a reasonable interpretation either way. In other words, I wouldn't say someone who said "yes" or "no" were lying, just disagreeing.

fluffypony can speak for himself if he chooses, although he did say he was putting you on ignore.

[BlockaFett]

Starting to get really confused...premine has a specific definition - pre (before) mine...

how can something be mined more or less before launch?    It either was or wasn't, which?

Because the time of "launch" was very ambiguous. You would come up with a very different time for "launch" depending on which statements from Evan you happened to see or believe.

I think you would have to agree this was not a situation where the launch was scheduled and announced a week ahead of time and went off when scheduled. It was a mess.

If it was...post your research so we can share and validate it.

I've posted links to the relevant posts that give several different planned earliest launch times. There should be no issue with "validating" those. If you interpret those posts by Evan to mean that the mining started before it was supposed to (arguably days before) that could reasonably be considered a premine.  

"Because the time of "launch" was very ambiguous."

So if *you don't know* the launch date, how do you know there was a premine?

I.e. how can you say with enough certainty that there was a premine, to warrant throwing accusations like this around, and even pressuring 3rd party websites to warn their users of this on your behalf?  Are you saying that you don't actually know if there was a premine?

Again if there was a premine, where is your research / hard evidence / blocks / dates etc like any normal person would give before slandering a coin that if price gets negatively affected you will directly benefit?

[smooth]

"Because the time of "launch" was very ambiguous."

So if *you don't know* the launch date, how do you know there was a premine?

What part of ambiguous and open to interpretation and reasonable disagreement is not clear?

I.e. how can you say with enough certainty that there was a premine, to warrant throwing accusations like this around, and even pressuring 3rd party websites to warn their users of this on your behalf?  Are you saying that you don't actually know if there was a premine?

I made no accusation with respect to premine, nor did I pressure. I posted evidence of the instamine, described as such. You can see it back on this thread.

Again if there was a premine, where is your research / hard evidence / blocks / dates etc like any normal person would give before slandering a coin that if price gets negatively affected you will directly benefit?

You throw the word slander around occasionally but it doesn't mean something you don't like, or that make you uncomfortable, or that impede promotion of a coin. It means untrue statements that cause harm. My statements are not untrue.

[BlockaFett]

"Because the time of "launch" was very ambiguous."

So if *you don't know* the launch date, how do you know there was a premine?

What part of ambiguous and open to interpretation and reasonable disagreement is not clear?

I.e. how can you say with enough certainty that there was a premine, to warrant throwing accusations like this around, and even pressuring 3rd party websites to warn their users of this on your behalf?  Are you saying that you don't actually know if there was a premine?

I made no accusation with respect to premine, nor did I pressure. I posted evidence of the instamine, described as such. You can see it back on this thread.

Again if there was a premine, where is your research / hard evidence / blocks / dates etc like any normal person would give before slandering a coin that if price gets negatively affected you will directly benefit?

You throw the word slander around occasionally but it doesn't mean something you don't like, or that make you uncomfortable, or that impede promotion of a coin. It means untrue statements that cause harm. My statements are not untrue.

OK so can you confirm that your position is that you are not accusing Dash of having a premine?  I am looking for clarification to this specific question.