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[farfiman]

He made his decision- and even if we don't think it's right, lets give it a rest.

[smooth]

He made his decision- and even if we don't think it's right, lets give it a rest.

Agree, there is no point in arguing over Dash at this point (nor Bytecoin for that matter).

I do think we should work on this though

If someone can come up with an objective and easily verifiable criteria for instamine that can be applied to all current and future mineable coins, I'll consider it.

Probably best to think about that offline and post a specific proposal rather than cluttering up the thread with this ongoing discussion.

[iCEBREAKER]

He made his decision- and even if we don't think it's right, lets give it a rest.

He made two decisions.  The first, to denote Dash's strategically ambiguous pre/insta mine, was the correct one.

The second decision, to hide Dash's massive pre/insta mine and announce the procedure for avoiding CMC's shitcoin filter, was incorrect.

If the DashHoles can be persuasive, so can we (especially since the facts are on our side).

[smooth]

iCEBREAKER, I predicted that the Dash instapremine tag would be removed for exactly the reason it was: When in doubt he removes it. Gliss wants objective criteria but also fairly simple criteria. For example, he'll list coins as premined if they have a bunch of coins created in their genesis block.

That's why he removed the premine tag on Bytecoin, even though it is, in reality, clearly premined by any reasonable standard. But there is no genesis block you can point to and say "here, THESE coins were premined".

So I suggest we focus on putting together objective, easily verified criteria for instamines (and maybe ninja premines), which has said he will consider.

[BlockaFett]

iCEBREAKER, I predicted that the Dash instapremine tag would be removed for exactly the reason it was: When in doubt he removes it. Gliss wants objective criteria but also fairly simple criteria. For example, he'll list coins as premined if they have a bunch of coins created in their genesis block.

That's why he removed the premine tag on Bytecoin, even though it is, in reality, clearly premined by any reasonable standard. But there is no genesis block you can point to and say "here, THESE coins were premined".

So I suggest we focus on putting together objective, easily verified criteria for instamines (and maybe ninja premines), which has said he will consider.

I think you in particular have a slight conflict of interest here Smooth to try to define anything objective when you are a Monero core-team member and you already pushed CMC for the last 10 pages to add a new category called "intamine" that filters out Dash specifically...looks quite bad on Monero that you are persisting, and imagine the FUD storm when you come up with an equation that magically applies to Dash and trying to get consensus...

[smooth]

iCEBREAKER, I predicted that the Dash instapremine tag would be removed for exactly the reason it was: When in doubt he removes it. Gliss wants objective criteria but also fairly simple criteria. For example, he'll list coins as premined if they have a bunch of coins created in their genesis block.

That's why he removed the premine tag on Bytecoin, even though it is, in reality, clearly premined by any reasonable standard. But there is no genesis block you can point to and say "here, THESE coins were premined".

So I suggest we focus on putting together objective, easily verified criteria for instamines (and maybe ninja premines), which has said he will consider.

I think you in particular have a slight conflict of interest here Smooth to try to define anything objective when you are a Monero core-team member and you already pushed CMC for the last 10 pages to add a new category called "intamine" that filters out Dash specifically...looks quite bad on Monero that you are persisting, and imagine the FUD storm when you come up with an equation that magically applies to Dash and trying to get consensus...

There is no consensus needed. Gliss will consider it. His site, his decision. Simple enough. If it meets his criteria and he thinks its useful I bet he will adopt it. The so called conflict of interest doesn't matter because Gliss is the decision maker, not me. So you have nothing to be concerned about.

Don't think that Dash is so special either. I bet there are plenty of premined coins that would like to get their tag removed (or not have the tag exist at all). But as long as there is an objective definition that is simple to apply, Gliss seems to think it is useful to identify them, and maybe instamines too.

[BlockaFett]

iCEBREAKER, I predicted that the Dash instapremine tag would be removed for exactly the reason it was: When in doubt he removes it. Gliss wants objective criteria but also fairly simple criteria. For example, he'll list coins as premined if they have a bunch of coins created in their genesis block.

That's why he removed the premine tag on Bytecoin, even though it is, in reality, clearly premined by any reasonable standard. But there is no genesis block you can point to and say "here, THESE coins were premined".

So I suggest we focus on putting together objective, easily verified criteria for instamines (and maybe ninja premines), which has said he will consider.

I think you in particular have a slight conflict of interest here Smooth to try to define anything objective when you are a Monero core-team member and you already pushed CMC for the last 10 pages to add a new category called "intamine" that filters out Dash specifically...looks quite bad on Monero that you are persisting, and imagine the FUD storm when you come up with an equation that magically applies to Dash and trying to get consensus...

There is no consensus needed. Gliss will consider it. His site, his decision. Simple enough. If it meets his criteria and he thinks its useful I bet he will adopt it. The so called conflict of interest doesn't matter because Gliss is the decision maker, not me. So you have nothing to be concerned about.

Don't think that Dash is so special either. I bet there are plenty of premined coins that would like to get their tag removed (or not have the tag exist at all). But as long as there is an objective definition that is simple to apply, Gliss seems to think it is useful to identify them, and maybe instamines too.

Dash is special in the sense that one of it's devs isn't here trying to bully independent websites into getting its competitors black listed.  There are pages here now pointing out about your dodgy launch with code deliberately inserted to give the Devs more coins than everyone else, but you notice no one from Dash can be bothered to ask CoinMarketCap to do anything about that, and certainly not the devs, because Dash competes on a commercial and technological level not through attacking the competition.  You are in total conflict of interest, you are jut in denial too i think.

[iCEBREAKER]

iCEBREAKER, I predicted that the Dash instapremine tag would be removed for exactly the reason it was: When in doubt he removes it. Gliss wants objective criteria but also fairly simple criteria. For example, he'll list coins as premined if they have a bunch of coins created in their genesis block.

That's why he removed the premine tag on Bytecoin, even though it is, in reality, clearly premined by any reasonable standard. But there is no genesis block you can point to and say "here, THESE coins were premined".

So I suggest we focus on putting together objective, easily verified criteria for instamines (and maybe ninja premines), which has said he will consider.

There are two definitions of "premine."  The more narrow one strictly excludes any coin with no massive genesis block reward.

The Dash fiasco illustrates why that academic definition is of limited value in the real world.

A slightly more broad definition of "premine" would include cases like Dash, where no clear timeline is available but there is no doubt a massive number of coins were created before the public launch.

It's asinine to reward the DashHoles for using the semantic overlap between Dash's pre- and insta- mining phases to avoid the shitcoin filter.

It is an objective fact Dash's actual early emission in no way matches its ostensible block rewards.  We've all seen the evidence.

Gliss saw the scam and said so, which was the right thing to do.  Reversing that decision because of whining quibbling DashHoles makes CMC complicit in the scam.

[arielbit]

drk/dash supporters are saying "proudly instamined" so instead of arguing why don't you help us figure out a way to objectively label instamined coins as "significantly instamined" like your coin (dash/drk)?

[smooth]

@BlockaFett, I think instamines are relevant information and can be identified and defined objectively.

Whatever other nonsense you are blabbering on about in terms of extra coins that didn't happen (or were you referring to the extra coins created in Dash due to the 500 coin per block bug?), please take it out of Gliss's thread, you are being rude.

[BlockaFett]

@BlockaFett, I think instamines are relevant information and can be identified and defined objectively.

Whatever other nonsense you are blabbering on about in terms of extra coins that didn't happen (or were you referring to the extra coins created in Dash due to the 500 coin per block bug?), please take it out of Gliss's thread, you are being rude.

@Smooth.  I agree to get out of this thread, that's what I have been saying to you for the last 15 pages as you very well know.  And you know what I was referring too about your own launch "issues", it' discussed at length recently here and on other threads...so please let's not restart all this BS again, go and do you 'proposal' and let these guys make the decision....and ask your hired-goon Icebreaker aka Hashfast scammer Eduardo de Castro to lay off calling CMC a scam because Monero didn't get what it wanted...cheers

@CMC - Thank you for keeping your neutrality on this issue and sorry for the time this has taken up for you.

[smooth]

@BlockaFett, I think instamines are relevant information and can be identified and defined objectively.

Whatever other nonsense you are blabbering on about in terms of extra coins that didn't happen (or were you referring to the extra coins created in Dash due to the 500 coin per block bug?), please take it out of Gliss's thread, you are being rude.

@Smooth.  I agree to get out of this thread, that's what I have been saying to you for the last 15 pages as you very well know.  And you know what I was referring too about your own launch "issues", it' discussed at length recently here and on other threads...so please let's not restart all this BS again, go and do you 'proposal' and let these guys make the decision....and ask your hired-goon Icebreaker aka Hashfast scammer Eduardo de Castro to lay off calling CMC a scam because Monero didn't get what it wanted...cheers

@CMC - Thank you for keeping your neutrality on this issue and sorry for the time this has taken up for you.

For the record icebreaker is not hired by me or anyone I know or know about. That was a baseless and unfair statement.

Out

[iCEBREAKER]

@Smooth.  I agree to get out of this thread, that's what I have been saying to you for the last 15 pages as you very well know.  And you know what I was referring too about your own launch "issues", it' discussed at length recently here and on other threads...so please let's not restart all this BS again, go and do you 'proposal' and let these guys make the decision....and ask your hired-goon Icebreaker aka Hashfast scammer Eduardo de Castro to lay off calling CMC a scam because Monero didn't get what it wanted...cheers

@CMC - Thank you for keeping your neutrality on this issue and sorry for the time this has taken up for you.

For the record icebreaker is not hired by me or anyone I know or know about. That was a baseless and unfair statement.

The DashHoles are clearly mad, both in the sense of mad-angry and mad-delusional/paranoid.

I can't believe CMC turned on a dime to appease their whining by hiding Dash's insta/pre-mine.

What a gutless, cowardly decision.  Gliss sees the scam and is (now) saying nothing.  We know what that implies.

How can CMC justify listing Dash with honestly mined coins, when their own core dev says this?

The first 24 hours of the coins existence keep causing us problems

[BlockaFett]

Come back to the Dash thread Ice we miss you!!! (and chill out - Gliss said he would consider proposals, no need to shout...)

[kiklo]

Something strange going on with Bleutrade,

Most of their coins are reporting stats from 56 hours ago


 

[Prosperityforall]

drk/dash supporters are saying "proudly instamined" so instead of arguing why don't you help us figure out a way to objectively label instamined coins as "significantly instamined" like your coin (dash/drk)?

This is what I propose:

To Gliss,

Objectively speaking: A instamined currency would be one where the core features like block reward and coin supply were changed/did not go as planned, after launch that have benefitted a group of very early miners

Gliss is right that it needs to be objective, and the instamines we already know, such as the ones in Dash and Asiacoin, are objective, as the actual core parameters were changed. This rules out the need of saying subjective things like "Evan did the instamine on purpose", or "It was a total coincidence", since the objective proof of the instamine lies in the actual core features having changed(Practically the math behind the currency) after launch.

It probably is best to leave morals/speculation out of it no matter how probable..and just stick to what's known in the coin's history concerning it's parameters. In the case of Dash, it was instamined where it' actual block reward and coin supply were sliced after launch, obviously, hugely, benefitting very early miners. That is objective and therefore I believe it to be very reasonable to add a 'Instamine' currency filter for coins like Dash/Asiacoin and similar, especially since in the case of Dash, the 2million coin, 2 day instamine happened very early on and is not something a newcommer to crypto is likely to know about without research into the coin's history, and similar with Asiacoin where there was a hidden instamine that no one knew about until it was found coincidentally.

Coinmarketcap should at least add a new filter option for Instamined currencies like Dash. The definition of a instamine would be where the coin's actual core parameters were changed after launch to benefit early miners.

+1

That's the only logical solution.

[iCEBREAKER]

XPOST:

1) Dash's developer, Evan Duffield, released Dash before it's intended release date(Which means the instamine could also be partly counted as a premine)

Exactly.  The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined, whether or not they were included in the genesis block.

[generalizethis]

XPOST:

1) Dash's developer, Evan Duffield, released Dash before it's intended release date(Which means the instamine could also be partly counted as a premine)

Exactly.  The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined, whether or not they were included in the genesis block.

^this makes the most sense. If I hold an election and votes cast in the first hours are worth more than votes cast afterwords, the vote would always have an asterisk next to it in the history books if the election date was moved up in the middle of the night and/or only those with rare credentials or at the right location were able to vote.

[Prosperityforall]

There's actually a ton of instamined coins that had their block reward changed/did not go as planned, after launch along with Dash, like : Applecoin, Netcoin, Asiacoin, BitBar, Bitcoin Scrypt, CleanWaterCoin, and more as shown here http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_massive_investigation_of_instamines_and_fastmines_for_the_top_alt_coins. So a instamine filter would actually be pretty helpful.

[georgem]

hey coinmarketcap,

please update the information for spreadcoin (SPR):

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/spreadcoin/

The new official website is http://www.spreadcoin.info
the old site (http://spreadcoin.net) doesn't exist anymore.

And please also add a link to the official ANN thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1045373

Thank you for your service!

georgem