[Closed] AVALON CHIPs @0.082BTC + K16 Miner Assembly 60EUR

[sociomenace]

This is not good at all.

Bizwoo and nekonos you guys have been nothing but perfect and I can't even begin to imagine the head aches from organizing this cluster fuck that Avalon has been.

I'm opting for a refund but I would also be more than happy to give Nekonos a % if he has already fronted money for materials to make the boards.

I didn't invest much in this and I feel for those that did so on the good faith of this uncommunicative and shady "company".

Cheers.
SM.

[1713261745]

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[1713261745]

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[1713261745]

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[Dataroth]

I chose refund. That being said I think everyone in the group buy needs to compensate bizwoo and nekonos for all the time and potentially money they have put in. I was thinking something along the lines of .25 BTC for both bizwoo and nekonos?  I don't know how much money nekonos has tied up in the board prototypes though.  Suggestions?

[kearneykid]

"Avalon ASIC
Chips Delivery Update, September Edition
Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.

The link to the request form is below, please note this only applies to orders made earlier than June 1st.

In other news, for those who decided to wait or wish to know more about delivery schedule will be glad to note we are receiving a batch of 400,000+ chips on Wednesday, with that we expect to be in good shape for meeting the upcoming deadlines of chip deliveries for orders made in June and later.

In addition, we hope to wrap up generation one, finish shipping the chips, construct the modules and build the 2 module Avalon mini, put this pre-order mess behind us in general and switch gear into 55nm production, tape out generation 3, and start work on improving chip design for generation 4. Only sell what we can produce in a day on the assembly line, and only what's in stock."

Does not look good for Batch 2 refund!

[finlof]

"Avalon ASIC
Chips Delivery Update, September Edition
Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.

The link to the request form is below, please note this only applies to orders made earlier than June 1st.

In other news, for those who decided to wait or wish to know more about delivery schedule will be glad to note we are receiving a batch of 400,000+ chips on Wednesday, with that we expect to be in good shape for meeting the upcoming deadlines of chip deliveries for orders made in June and later.

In addition, we hope to wrap up generation one, finish shipping the chips, construct the modules and build the 2 module Avalon mini, put this pre-order mess behind us in general and switch gear into 55nm production, tape out generation 3, and start work on improving chip design for generation 4. Only sell what we can produce in a day on the assembly line, and only what's in stock."

Does not look good for Batch 2 refund!

batch 1 was ordered after June 1, so prob doesnt look good for batch 1 refund either

[ampu]

what? with lead time of 8-10 weeks agreed upon ordering, some orders made after june are not even suppose to ship yet, why would we offer refund for them.

it simply says since chips are arriving, we believe we will be on time, if not, a new refund form will be made.

Yifu... Start at June 1st and count ten weeks.

I'm aware, I was commenting on him in particular, his order is made on june 24th, I'm not even behind yet.

also there's a typo, the form says 15th, which is exactly 2 and half months ago from today.

Batch 1 should be refundable..

Anyway I have chosen not to ask for a refund

[anto]

batch one was ordered on June 8 so even shipping today is 2 weeks later. This is time sensitive hardware, there was a no bullshit clause and this delay is not acceptable. Bizwoo should refuse to receive batch 1 chips and demand instead a refund.
I do not want to be forced to accept a product I have the right to refuse.
 

[Fishbones]

batch one was ordered on June 8 so even shipping today is 2 weeks later. This is time sensitive hardware, there was a no bullshit clause and this delay is not acceptable. Bizwoo should refuse to receive batch 1 chips and demand instead a refund.
I do not want to be forced to accept a product I have the right to refuse.
 

The refund cutoff date is June 15, not the 1st. That was a typo in the newsletter. So batch 1 is refundable.

EDIT: The date has been extended to orders until June 22nd. Also, refunds for chips have started.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg3053360#msg3053360

I suggest, once again, to request the refund for batch1 ASAP. Monday might be too late. Yifu might disappear again or run out of BTC or change the terms again... Who knows ... 
As we have seen, with bitcoin you can't wait. While you wait, shit happens and you lose BTC

[ArtificiallySmart]

@Bizwoo

How are the stats? Can you give us an insight in how many people want a refund?

[anto]

The refund cutoff date is June 15, not the 1st. That was a typo in the newsletter. So batch 1 is refundable.

EDIT: The date has been extended to orders until June 22nd. Also, refunds for chips have started.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg3053360#msg3053360

I suggest, once again, to request the refund for batch1 ASAP. Monday might be too late. Yifu might disappear again or run out of BTC or change the terms again... Who knows ... 
As we have seen, with bitcoin you can't wait. While you wait, shit happens and you lose BTC

Thank you.
Bizwoo, I urge you to take Fishbones' advice: other bg are receiving refunds, and we don't know if and when Yifu will go short of money.
Another risk is you receive batch one on Wednesday and you or the bg have to incur expenses to ship them back.

[darkfriend77]

Important! Please remember... i dont make a last appointment, i will ask for refund as soon as a refund is possible because more than 5000 chips in a batch should be refunded. But please remember that we dont have time forever to do this. It looks like Yifu will get 40 batches on wednesday and he will ship them. So theres the chance that all not refunded batches will be shipped then. When we ask late for a refund it could be too late because of that.
Only a reminder!

I believe loyal followers of this forum would asked for a refund should be refunded ASAP and
also loyal followers who what to keep there chips should be be on the chip list right away.
Work it down from there
It`s Difficult call for Sebastian and not everyone going to be pleased with the outcome whatever it maybe,
 but this way everyone who has been here on a daily basis can be first served first and get back to BUSINESS ASAP !
Best of luck Seb

Thats what i want to do. First comes first serves. The latecomers have to stick if they are part of a batch with >5000 or <5000 chips and have to take the chips or dont get chips.
I cant do more than reminding the people by pm and email. If thats not helping i dont know how to change this.

Please send in a refund request .... asap ...

[btcapparel]

As above please Bizwoo 

[jerboa]

Please send in a refund request .... asap ...

Second that.

[bizwoo]

Hi all

At the moment of writing group buyers owning 5778 chips have asked for a refund using the form provided. Initially I set September the 2nd as the deadline for communicating the desire to get a refund form AVALON; however, with owners of over 57% of the chips in our batch 1 asking for a refund I will immediately instruct John K to action the refund request from AVALON.

I will ask John K to keep us also updated on the process.

I would expect AVALON refund to be for the full amount paid to them, therefore 782.10BTC. I hope you would understand that the escrow fees and also the small amount I was charging for organizing this group buy are not expected to be refunded. Therefore, the refund will be for 0.07821BTC/chip. If you are not happy with this please let me know but I do not believe I would be able to do anything. Nevertheless, I hope you really understand the amount of work organizing these groups buys has represented to me in addition to the big stress which all the issues faced has represented.

Please note, that the refunds will be done to the verified BTC address you used to make the payment when buying the chips.

Let's hope we will have news from John K latest tomorrow.

Cheers.

[Dataroth]

I have no issues at all with you and john k keeping your fees for all the work you've put in. Nekonos should get a bit too for his work on the boards.

[Pompobit]

Hi all

At the moment of writing group buyers owning 5778 chips have asked for a refund using the form provided. Initially I set September the 2nd as the deadline for communicating the desire to get a refund form AVALON; however, with owners of over 57% of the chips in our batch 1 asking for a refund I will immediately instruct John K to action the refund request from AVALON.

I will ask John K to keep us also updated on the process.

I would expect AVALON refund to be for the full amount paid to them, therefore 782.10BTC. I hope you would understand that the escrow fees and also the small amount I was charging for organizing this group buy are not expected to be refunded. Therefore, the refund will be for 0.07821BTC/chip. If you are not happy with this please let me know but I do not believe I would be able to do anything. Nevertheless, I hope you really understand the amount of work organizing these groups buys has represented to me in addition to the big stress which all the issues faced has represented.

Please note, that the refunds will be done to the verified BTC address you used to make the payment when buying the chips.

Let's hope we will have news from John K latest tomorrow.

Cheers.

I think there is no doubt you and John K. should be paid for your services, even if this story did not go as we would have liked... But the refunds should not differ by the amount paid? I mean someone bought chip for 0.08, someone else for 0.082, why everyone is getting the same amount?

[cr003l7y]

I think there is no doubt you and John K. should be paid for your services, even if this story did not go as we would have liked... But the refunds should not differ by the amount paid? I mean someone bought chip for 0.08, someone else for 0.082, why everyone is getting the same amount?

Percentage-wise those who paid less will receive more back - I think it is fair.

[gyverlb]

I think there is no doubt you and John K. should be paid for your services, even if this story did not go as we would have liked... But the refunds should not differ by the amount paid? I mean someone bought chip for 0.08, someone else for 0.082, why everyone is getting the same amount?

People paying 0.08 were the first ones on board and were taking the highest risks (if a whole batch isn't completed, it's canceled and you only get back what you put minus fees), this is why they had a discount which still applies.

[siran]

+1 - true, true.

[FrenchTart]

5. Low group buy fees of just bellow 3% to cover the responsibility of organising it. This fee will be released by JohnK once the group buy has completed i.e. all chips delivered to final destination. I will buy my chips from my own pocket.

i do not want to sound unappreciative of your hard work in organising this gb , but since you haven't delivered the chips to its final destination for whatever reasons in a timely manner  you shouldn't receive the 3% fee according to section 5 of your first post.

i propose full refunds to everyone in the exact amount paid by members of this group buy and setup a separate btc address provided by bizwoo & nekonos for any voluntary donations members of this gb feel is appropriate for your work in organising this gb

thank you for your attention

Assuming that escrow fees aren't refunded to Bizwoo then I'm happy for them not to come to us.  Bizwoo has also spent a huge amount of personal time organising all this and personally I don't mind losing a small percentage of my BTC to help cover all this time used.  At the very least, Bizwoo should not be out of pocket.  Perhaps there is some argument for the fee to be partially refunded though (assuming it doesn't leave Bizwoo out of pocket, as above).

[Fishbones]

I agree not leaving bizwoo out of pocket, BUT ... may I remind everyone that:

1. Batch#2 is still on schedule so the group buy fees will be released for that batch.
2. Nikonos' assembly service will still be assembling batch#2 boards.
3. 60 sample chips have been received which, as it seems, will be kept free of charge for batch#1 at least.

All in all, nothing is lost for the group buy organizer.

BTW: There were escrow fees of 2% and group buy fees of 3%. What's happening with escrow fees?
Have you heard back from JohnK?