Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[SellingMyGPUs]

While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).

How about all those Batch #3 Avalon unit buyers that you screwed royally by setting a price per unit in BTC that is impossible to ever break even?

For example, a 4 module unit cost about BTC 102 and has generated BTC 31 to date. These units will NEVER break even at the current rises of difficulty because of all the delays in their delivery.

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[btceic]

While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).

How about all those Batch #3 Avalon unit buyers that you screwed royally by setting a price per unit in BTC that is impossible to ever break even?

For example, a 4 module unit cost about BTC 102 and has generated BTC 31 to date. These units will NEVER break even at the current rises of difficulty because of all the delays in their delivery.

You can't blame him for your greed, You are the one that choose to overpay

[BitSyncom]

Maybe you could comment on the huge shipment of Avalon chips which was photographed ~2 months ago? You know, around the same time the first chips should have been shipping to your customers? http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3 original source http://www.btcman.com/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4621&extra=page%3D1&page=4

Let's see, 2600 chips per pack, 6 pack per box, 24 boxes. ~ 350k chips,
80 chips per module, assume 3 modules per unit, 600+ units ~ 150k chips.
plus addition 500 modules x 80 chips = 40k chips.

not to mention trade in, batch 2 left over and what ever else.

does it make sense now?


@polish importer
I only see a few hundred chips..
his words against mine, I guess the only way to find out is if you import a tens of thousand and see if he can deliver or not(hint: he can't.).

[SellingMyGPUs]

You can't blame him for your greed, You are the one that choose to overpay

This is the same discussion as with the delayed chip delivery: if Yifu had stuck to his word and delivered on time, there would be no problem in breaking even (even if it took 4 months instead of the projected one month) but due to his procrastination, Batch #3 was delivered that late that it can't ever break even.

It has nothing to do with greed but Yifu keeping his word

[Unacceptable]

Bitsyncom/Yifu,thank you for communicating with us 

If you can continue to "clear the air" with information,as your at least trying to do,we all might just calm down 

Thanks!!!

I'm still upset with you,but the communication is helping 

[peterepeat]

Hi Yifu, sorry to keep bringing it up and I understand 74.46 BTC to you may be insignificant, but I really need this refund for my Batch 3 order 6997 which was requested through your official form.
I dont want to be lost in the cracks.

[BitSyncom]

Hi Yifu, sorry to keep bringing it up and I understand 74.46 BTC to you may be insignificant, but I really need this refund for my Batch 3 order 6997 which was requested through your official form.
I dont want to be lost in the cracks.

manual'd

[pajak666]

You can't blame him for your greed, You are the one that choose to overpay

This is the same discussion as with the delayed chip delivery: if Yifu had stuck to his word and delivered on time, there would be no problem in breaking even (even if it took 4 months instead of the projected one month) but due to his procrastination, Batch #3 was delivered that late that it can't ever break even.

It has nothing to do with greed but Yifu keeping his word

+1
this issue of late batch #3 and impossible breaking even due to late delivery should also be adressed

[peetah]

Refund for our 10k order was just received.
Thank you, this is much appreciated and already a step towards good business practices.

However still a huge sum is tied up in the DIY gear which is already paid for, manufactured and no way to re-use / return / refund them.
I really do not mean to sound like a greedy ol' bastard, but I agree that a compensation plan would not be a bad idea after this excercise.

As already mentioned there aren't so many batch buyers, I think any compensation would be mined out in no time, while with such straight-fowardness making a great impact on both the receivers and the community.

Not greedy at all. Supporting customers already got burnt once on batch 3. Burning your supporters a second time leaves you no chance for a third.

[peterepeat]

Hi Yifu, sorry to keep bringing it up and I understand 74.46 BTC to you may be insignificant, but I really need this refund for my Batch 3 order 6997 which was requested through your official form.
I dont want to be lost in the cracks.

manual'd

I can confirm BTC received.

Thank you Yifu for your understanding.

[WinTame2012]

You can't blame him for your greed, You are the one that choose to overpay

This is the same discussion as with the delayed chip delivery: if Yifu had stuck to his word and delivered on time, there would be no problem in breaking even (even if it took 4 months instead of the projected one month) but due to his procrastination, Batch #3 was delivered that late that it can't ever break even.

It has nothing to do with greed but Yifu keeping his word

+1
this issue of late batch #3 and impossible breaking even due to late delivery should also be adressed

+1
I thought about the same. It's impossible to break even with this 3+ moths delay. And it's definitely not 'ASIC on time' as it was advertised

[jspielberg]

Hi Yifu, sorry to keep bringing it up and I understand 74.46 BTC to you may be insignificant, but I really need this refund for my Batch 3 order 6997 which was requested through your official form.
I dont want to be lost in the cracks.

manual'd

I can confirm BTC received.

Thank you Yifu for your understanding.

Congrats Peterpeat on your refund!

And good job Yifu on holding your nose in the forums and taking care of business.  These refunds make a big difference to us.

[SebastianJu]

I can confirm one of the three refunds i asked for till now came in.

By the way... the refund form is an invitation for scammers. Before i had read the avalon news i already had confirmation emails asking for confirmation to refund 2 of our batches to another persons Address. I have to clear this tomorrow, of course i didnt fall for this but i hope no one other does in the heat. The batch 3 miner form was better i think.

well, phishing/requests have been coming in for a long time now, but this is why I sent out a email to all the orders owners emails address to confirm the refund is indeed happening, or not.

The form says: "The order has to be made before june 15ths" So only when a batch was ordered after that date it cant be refunded yet. Luckily after the form was changed from 1st to 15ths we can refund 50000 of our 56000 chips.

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

The thing is how Yifu handled this. First no support. I found it ok that he gives no technical support but that he stops communicating on business relationship communication at all was real stress.

Then he came up with the excuse that 20 batches are in customs since 2 weeks. But the batches were due since 5 weeks already and 20 batches are nothing. We know he ordered all batches after 5 weeks, so he knew it will take 4-5 weeks to create and get the chips. Sounds ok since he created chips before.

Then we see images of many chips. Why should they exist if there are no miners to create yet? And they exist at a time matching when our chips should be ready in an amount that could match the ordered batches? Random? And why does chinese resellers can deliver since yifu cant? If he couldnt produce so many chips he had to stop selling them.

Because of no communication someone tried to personally ask and visited the parents of an employee. Yifu was so scared that he had to stop work and start creating security? Someone mentioned he now has bodyguards. So the fact he did not communicate, no support and not even announcements lead to customers search him and the solution is to protect against his customers?

Im sick of thinking of all the errors he made. And yes, the biggest error is his communication. He denied to me to hire a support person because the team is small and will remain small. That was it for him. Is this how a business person should decide?

We dont know what happened, true. But if its not his fault then it would be so very easy to describe everything that happened and that wasnt in his might to change. But he doesnt. Im not sure what problem he has but the stress and work he put on me... i cant forget. I wont order anything from him again.

Rest of the stuff you said, I agree. We are a team of 4 people ( it'll stay that way for reasons I'll not get into for the time being.) and we will learn and grow as a team, I have no problem admitting to issue and mistakes. The only got I really got to comment on is the chinese reseller chip thing you mentioned that keeps coming up over and over. As far as I understand it, some one ordered ~2k chips from somebody in china, then a whole shit storm starts on how we have been selling chips to resellers and delaying everyone else, this simply is not true. I said before(and been ignored.) more than 50% of the chip orders originates from china. We've shipped out chips, a few hundred thousand a best so far. there is simply no resellers with volume. People keep asking for evidence on how we have NOT "sell-out" to these resellers, but where is the evidence on the fact they have chips?

Anyhow, If people think I'm trying to screw the people who ordered from 15th to the 22th of June that is just silly, and false in their assumption. Here's the new deal,

The form will extend to orders made before the 22nd, which is exatly 10 weeks. and every order after, on the date it is suppose to ship, we'll send out a email asking if a refund is desired.

While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).

Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.  

Yifu i really really appreciate you communicating... I wished it could happen before then so many things wouldnt have happened and no pile of tickets would have collected that look like its not possible to work up.

I didnt answer to the refundemail because i didnt want to risk that you only check IF i answer and not what i write and send the refund to the wrong address.

So the pictures of chips were chips for the old miners. Might be i guess. But what i still dont understand is why the chips were so delayed. I believe you collected chip orders for 5 weeks and then ordered all at tsmc. So it probably should take 4-5 weeks to produce and receive it. But obviously that didnt work. Care to explain why? I mean it wasnt your first time ordering chips.

[makngeerwork]

I would love to have some information on Zefirs batch 3,4,5 orders.  Since they were to be shipped out at end of June start of July, which customs, freight, manufacturing or any other entity has them in hijacked limbo.  They must be somewhere.

Thanks

[User705]

Everyone should say thanks for the refunds.  This is why in the real world it's not likely you can consistently deliver a device that earns back it's cost in weeks or months.  It's just not realistic.  Too many hands it passes through not to get messed with.  If he didn't do it others might have diverted chips.  He might not know the answer to all your "why" questions.

[bystander]

Maybe you could comment on the huge shipment of Avalon chips which was photographed ~2 months ago? You know, around the same time the first chips should have been shipping to your customers? http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3 original source http://www.btcman.com/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4621&extra=page%3D1&page=4

Can you answer this Yifu?

Look a few posts above. you'll see the quote below.  However, he made no mention that the tracking number to the shipment showed 135 boxes going from Pudong to HKG, the reseller in the picture got 24 boxes.  It's the other 111 boxes in the same shipment that are a mystery.

Let's see, 2600 chips per pack, 6 pack per box, 24 boxes. ~ 350k chips,
80 chips per module, assume 3 modules per unit, 600+ units ~ 150k chips.
plus addition 500 modules x 80 chips = 40k chips.

not to mention trade in, batch 2 left over and what ever else.

does it make sense now?


@polish importer
I only see a few hundred chips..
his words against mine, I guess the only way to find out is if you import a tens of thousand and see if he can deliver or not(hint: he can't.).

[SebastianJu]

Successfully received 2 other refunds. So now 3 chip batches of our groupbuy are refunded. Still waiting for the other members to get back to me and telling me their wish.

[RoadStress]

By the way... the refund form is an invitation for scammers. Before i had read the avalon news i already had confirmation emails asking for confirmation to refund 2 of our batches to another persons Address. I have to clear this tomorrow, of course i didnt fall for this but i hope no one other does in the heat. The batch 3 miner form was better i think.

well, phishing/requests have been coming in for a long time now, but this is why I sent out a email to all the orders owners emails address to confirm the refund is indeed happening, or not.

The form says: "The order has to be made before june 15ths" So only when a batch was ordered after that date it cant be refunded yet. Luckily after the form was changed from 1st to 15ths we can refund 50000 of our 56000 chips.

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

The thing is how Yifu handled this. First no support. I found it ok that he gives no technical support but that he stops communicating on business relationship communication at all was real stress.

Then he came up with the excuse that 20 batches are in customs since 2 weeks. But the batches were due since 5 weeks already and 20 batches are nothing. We know he ordered all batches after 5 weeks, so he knew it will take 4-5 weeks to create and get the chips. Sounds ok since he created chips before.

Then we see images of many chips. Why should they exist if there are no miners to create yet? And they exist at a time matching when our chips should be ready in an amount that could match the ordered batches? Random? And why does chinese resellers can deliver since yifu cant? If he couldnt produce so many chips he had to stop selling them.

Because of no communication someone tried to personally ask and visited the parents of an employee. Yifu was so scared that he had to stop work and start creating security? Someone mentioned he now has bodyguards. So the fact he did not communicate, no support and not even announcements lead to customers search him and the solution is to protect against his customers?

Im sick of thinking of all the errors he made. And yes, the biggest error is his communication. He denied to me to hire a support person because the team is small and will remain small. That was it for him. Is this how a business person should decide?

We dont know what happened, true. But if its not his fault then it would be so very easy to describe everything that happened and that wasnt in his might to change. But he doesnt. Im not sure what problem he has but the stress and work he put on me... i cant forget. I wont order anything from him again.

Rest of the stuff you said, I agree. We are a team of 4 people ( it'll stay that way for reasons I'll not get into for the time being.) and we will learn and grow as a team, I have no problem admitting to issue and mistakes. The only got I really got to comment on is the chinese reseller chip thing you mentioned that keeps coming up over and over. As far as I understand it, some one ordered ~2k chips from somebody in china, then a whole shit storm starts on how we have been selling chips to resellers and delaying everyone else, this simply is not true. I said before(and been ignored.) more than 50% of the chip orders originates from china. We've shipped out chips, a few hundred thousand a best so far. there is simply no resellers with volume. People keep asking for evidence on how we have NOT "sell-out" to these resellers, but where is the evidence on the fact they have chips?

Anyhow, If people think I'm trying to screw the people who ordered from 15th to the 22th of June that is just silly, and false in their assumption. Here's the new deal,

The form will extend to orders made before the 22nd, which is exatly 10 weeks. and every order after, on the date it is suppose to ship, we'll send out a email asking if a refund is desired.

While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).

Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.  

You still haven't answered to my question. zefir ordered the chips in april. Where are the 10 weeks? Third batch was ordered on 20 April. 10 weeks means 29 June! So? Why haven't you shipped according to your shitty terms?

[greaterninja]

Dear jackass aka Yifu,

BitSyncom, It would be very nice if you added my trade-ins to my store account instead of sitting on your ass on this issue for months.  While you are at it finish adding other Avalon users trade-ins and process them.  I have no fucking clue why you take so long on this.  I've PM'd, Texted, created tickets, sent emails, sent SMS, called. 


Address the issue and stop acting like a bitch.

[flyonwall]

I suggest we refer this whole matter to the Bitcoin Foundation. Using foul language does not help. We need a third party to arbitrate for us.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3054081#msg3054081