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Author Topic: I'm Kevin, here's my side.  (Read 236537 times)
relative
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June 20, 2011, 09:33:53 PM
 #41

Kevin, this isn't something that can be decided with forum posts. Get a lawyer and keep your mouth shut in public.


this ^

you can't seriously thing that you'll get the 250k or parts of it by making a forum post, do you?
there is nothing to gain, but there is 643 BTC to loose in case MtGox demands those back and you are making public statements here.
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June 20, 2011, 09:35:09 PM
 #42

I honestly can't say if I was in your position, I wouldn't be say the same thing.  And it probably hurts real bad.  I don't even know what solution is the right one - because almost every option is bad for somebody or the concept of btc itself.

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June 20, 2011, 09:35:22 PM
 #43

Must have been one hell of a few minutes!
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June 20, 2011, 09:36:11 PM
 #44

We have no idea they were hacked, absolutely. We do not know they did not hack themselves.

A self-hack is still a hack. What I would like to see is a post from the guy whose account got drained. (verified, 'course.)

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June 20, 2011, 09:36:43 PM
 #45

Kevin, this isn't something that can be decided with forum posts. Get a lawyer and keep your mouth shut in public.


this ^

you can't seriously thing that you'll get the 250k or parts of it by making a forum post, do you?
there is nothing to gain, but there is 643 BTC to loose in case MtGox demands those back and you are making public statements here.


And if he refuses to give them back??? What are they going to do, sue him? How did any of us know it was a hack. As I stated, there were many forum posts right HERE talking about the "major selloff". People thought Satoshi was getting out and dumping. 90 percent of you would have bought at .01 if you could have. SO Mt Gox should get their coins back bcause they allowed themselves to be compromised?

Someone gets their wallet stolen and the prevailing attitude here is "oh well, should have been more careful", but a site trusted with our financial resources allows themselves to be hacked, and everyone feels bad for them?

Im not sure why anyone would want to, but just in case, I humbly and very gratefully accept donations at: 1Kn6NFFE4EqrhN1pgBDoBQEvSA5c3tdqhi
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June 20, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
 #46

Kevin, this isn't something that can be decided with forum posts. Get a lawyer and keep your mouth shut in public.


this ^

you can't seriously thing that you'll get the 250k or parts of it by making a forum post, do you?
there is nothing to gain, but there is 643 BTC to loose in case MtGox demands those back and you are making public statements here.


If either of us tried that, it would be like scorching the earth behind us. There are very few actions any of us can take that won't cause huge disruptions.
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June 20, 2011, 09:37:30 PM
 #47

I feel for you, Kevin, I really do. Problem is, this isn't someone making a stupid trade, or even someone trying intentionally to crash the market. In either of those instances, I would support you in keeping not only the 643, but the full 259684. It wasn't though. It was a Hack. Which means that the poor guy whose BTC you got had nothing to do with the trade, which means that he was stolen from.

This keeps getting stated.  Who is this "poor guy" - zero evidence for said "poor guy" having actually ever existed has been posted/made available as far as I'm aware.

If it were this simple, it's an open and shut case.  Kevin's post shows it quite obviously is NOT this simple, unless you believe that a simple password compromised user account held 500,000 bitcoins in it.  I personally do not.  My opinion may change based on more evidence.

No one (well, I'm sure some do) wants to see MtGox fail - but I personally want to know wtf the actual truth is so I can make informed decisions.  Why is this so unreasonable all of a sudden?
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June 20, 2011, 09:38:12 PM
 #48

Must have been one hell of a few minutes!

best post of the thread.

can you imagine?
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June 20, 2011, 09:38:28 PM
 #49

Robber steals from a bank.



Robber loses his loot on a chase.



You pick up loot.



You're tracked down.



Loot is not yours to keep.



Simple fucking logic.
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June 20, 2011, 09:39:06 PM
 #50

Robber steals from a bank.



Robber loses his loot on a chase.



You pick up loot.



You're tracked down.



Loot is not yours to keep.



Simple fucking logic.

False comparison.
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June 20, 2011, 09:39:32 PM
 #51

toasty, you, and many others, underestimate resilience of Bitcoin and overestimate it's dependence on mtgox. I mean medium and long term.


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June 20, 2011, 09:40:01 PM
 #52

Yeh... really false.
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June 20, 2011, 09:41:51 PM
 #53

Robber steals from a bank.



Robber loses his loot on a chase.



You pick up loot.



You're tracked down.



Loot is not yours to keep.



Simple fucking logic.

False comparison.

Coming from a bitter eddy like yourself, I think that synopsis is spot on.

This comes down to theft, and the right thing to do is returning the stolen goods. As much as it pains anyone who scored from it.

If the goods isnt returned, this would tarnish the bitcoin community even more having it out and about that its fine to steal coins since there is no means to return stolen funds.

An exchange, specificly this situation, just proves that in some cases there is atleast some recourse for stolen funds.

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June 20, 2011, 09:42:11 PM
 #54

This is all a bunch of bullshit.

Kevin stepped up. Now it's time for the bitcoin loser to step up, and if no bitcoin loser shows to claim the loss, then it was Mt Gox all this time. Who owned the 500,000 bitcoins?

I think it was Mt Gox!

They either owned them first, or stole them and then tried to sell off, and buy back, but Kevin got half of them. Who else got the others, exactly in their orders? Could it have been Mt Gox that got many of them?


Why does Bitrebel have 65+ Ignores?
Because Bitrebel says things that some people do not want YOU to hear.
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June 20, 2011, 09:44:50 PM
 #55

Toasty the simple reality is if you choose to keep the bitcoins you will probably use all of them to pay for legal fees in a civil case, not to mention posibbly defending yourself in a criminal case.  This could very easily be in excess of $200,000 and there is no guarantee you would win and you would most likely loose one of the cases.  What is your risk tolerance?
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June 20, 2011, 09:45:29 PM
 #56

toasty, you, and many others, underestimate resilience of Bitcoin and overestimate it's dependence on mtgox. I mean medium and long term.



Gosh, you inspire me Vladimir.

I don't agree with you, I think you're utterly banal, but damn is your tenacity inspiring.
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June 20, 2011, 09:46:01 PM
 #57

This is all a bunch of bullshit.

Kevin stepped up. Now it's time for the bitcoin loser to step up, and if no bitcoin loser shows to claim the loss, then it was Mt Gox all this time. Who owned the 500,000 bitcoins?

I think it was Mt Gox!

They either owned them first, or stole them and then tried to sell off, and buy back, but Kevin got half of them. Who else got the others, exactly in their orders? Could it have been Mt Gox that got many of them?



I would also like the bitcoin "loser" to step up before you swallow kevins cock.

Its impossible for me to understand the logic here that because its such a huge amount of potential booty the arguments being made is attempting to justify keeping the funds.

I will stand in the corner for a second and say this, if it is some elaborate scheme by mtgox then it should be outted however if someone steps up and explains just like kevin did in this thread, that he is the bitcoin "loser" who will believe him? None of you who stand behind kevin and the stolen booty would believe it to be the bitcoin "loser" and conspiracies will fly about that mtgox is posing as the loser.

How do you think this could be proven? It cant.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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relative
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June 20, 2011, 09:46:11 PM
 #58

Quote
I think it was Mt Gox!
I think it was many accounts and Mt Gox doesnt want to admin that.
wouldnt be the first time of the last few days.

Quote
They either owned them first, or stole them and then tried to sell off, and buy back, but Kevin got half of them.
can you explain their motive? I see no profits in a market crash besides commission and volume, and that isnt very much.
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June 20, 2011, 09:46:54 PM
 #59

toasty, you, and many others, underestimate resilience of Bitcoin and overestimate it's dependence on mtgox. I mean medium and long term.



I probably have way more faith than you believe. But I couldn't live with myself if my own legal actions resulted in funds getting frozen which would affect even more innocent third parties.
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June 20, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
 #60

Executive summary:

1.) "I took advantage of an extraordinary event that turned out to be initiated by a rogue sell order, not legitimate trading."

2.) "Can I keep it? Look, here's why."

No, sorry. To allow the trade to stand would legitimize the attack, is that what you really want? (Besides bitcoins and dollars, I mean.)


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