I'm Kevin, here's my side.

[Phil21]

I missed part of the live broadcast, but I think MtGox said that the 500k coins was actually form the MtGox account. All the user's coins are actually stored in a single large wallet, and the BTC you see in your account is just an accounting entry. They're no actually yours until you withdraw your amount from the main wallet. So the theft wasn't from some poor schmuck with a bad password, it was from everyone at the same time.

I watched the live broadcast, but missed this if it was said.  I don't believe so though.  The only response to the question of "who owned the account that was hacked" I recall was "I can't answer that".   I don't expect them to reveal the name of the person's account, but I did expect a "no it was not mtgox itself, but we cannot reveal our customer's information" or similiar.  Easy answer if what they have been saying (hacked user account) is true.

You've likely simply been reading speculation on the boards that this is the case (perhaps my own speculation, as I believe it to be true).

This is an extremely important detail, and sidestepping the question seems rather shady to me.

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[Rassah]

I missed part of the live broadcast, but I think MtGox said that the 500k coins was actually form the MtGox account. All the user's coins are actually stored in a single large wallet, and the BTC you see in your account is just an accounting entry. They're no actually yours until you withdraw your amount from the main wallet. So the theft wasn't from some poor schmuck with a bad password, it was from everyone at the same time.

I watched the live broadcast, but missed this if it was said.  I don't believe so though.  The only response to the question of "who owned the account that was hacked" I recall was "I can't answer that".   I don't expect them to reveal the name of the person's account, but I did expect a "no it was not mtgox itself, but we cannot reveal our customer's information" or similiar.  Easy answer if what they have been saying (hacked user account) is true.

You've likely simply been reading speculation on the boards that this is the case (perhaps my own speculation, as I believe it to be true).

This is an extremely important detail, and sidestepping the question seems rather shady to me.

I thought I heard it on the broadcast, but I guess I was mistake. Though it would make sense for MtGox to keep all BTC in a single account, and execute trades using just accounting accounts. Actually transferring Bitcoin costs transaction fees, and filling multiple orders will quickly eat up people's trades with tx fees if it was done with actual coins. It may also be that the trade that sold 500k coins wasn't actually selling real coins, just fake IOUs, in which case the rollback is even easier and more justified.

[alexanderanon]

Notice how flippantly the detractors of Kevin come to their conclusions. "Sounds like a jerk. Let's steal his bitcoins. Oh...that doesn't sound so good....how about...for the good of the the bitcoin community!"

It's so easy to just tell someone else to steal his coins. Why don't you personally go to his address, put a gun to his head, and demand his laptop? It's not quite the same when you think about it that way, huh? Do you guys sneer at lottery winners too? Jealous bastards.

[myrkul]

Still a dick for wanting to keep the BTC.

You seem to like money regulated by some community, lets call it a government since it's governing.
Why at all use bitcoin then.

Because a government that regulates ALL activity is fundamentally different than an exchange that only regulates the people that choose to engage with it. This is simple buddy.

Exactly. If he had bought bitcoins at the same time from, say, Tradehill, I wouldn't be going after those. Only the ones purchased (in good faith!) from a fraudulent trade. No different than buying stolen goods, except, hey presto, he gets his money back. All of this really just seems like him being butthurt about not being a millionaire (which I totally understand.)

[fireside]

Kevin, regardless of whether you were the original hacker (I don't think you were), a large part of the consensus here is that you did pretty much admit to possessing stolen property. Considering your real name and info is out now (thanks to you yourself), it would probably be in your best interest to wait until things calm down a bit, get in touch with MtGox people, and then PUBLICLY return the funds. Otherwise you'll likely get blacklisted and trolled for years to come. Not saying MtGox people are right, either, but at present only two entities are getting attacked. If I were you, I'd do everything I can to not be one of those any more.
Unless, of course, $12,000 is worth it to have your name remembered and dragged through the mud for the next few years.

I am attempting to arrange that the bitcoins that I am in possession of right now, due to this trade, be held by a neutral third party until everyone can cool down about this.

AWESOME! You should mention this in your Post #1 in BIG BOLD LETTERS!

Lol. This isnt awesome. All he is saying is he is giving them to a friend to hold onto until the cops stop snooping so they are not in his possesion. then after people forget aobut this and move onto the next thing that happens he will be home free and cash in the illegal coins.

[MoonShadow]

Notice how flippantly the detractors of Kevin come to their conclusions. "Sounds like a jerk. Let's steal his bitcoins. Oh...that doesn't sound so good....how about...for the good of the the bitcoin community!"

It's so easy to just tell someone else to steal his coins. Why don't you personally go to his address, put a gun to his head, and demand his laptop? It's not quite the same when you think about it that way, huh? Do you guys sneer at lottery winners too? Jealous bastards.

No one can take these bitcoins from him, and he knows this.  If kevin is unwilling to return the coins, there is very little that any of us can do about it.

[Rassah]

I am attempting to arrange that the bitcoins that I am in possession of right now, due to this trade, be held by a neutral third party until everyone can cool down about this.

AWESOME! You should mention this in your Post #1 in BIG BOLD LETTERS!

Lol. This isnt awesome. All he is saying is he is giving them to a friend to hold onto until the cops stop snooping so they are not in his possesion. then after people forget aobut this and move onto the next thing that happens he will be home free and cash in the illegal coins.

Considering he exposed himself completely, including his IRL info (though not intentionally), I tend to believe him. At least in the "innocent until proven guilty" sort of way.

[fireside]

You sure can weed out the honest people from the greedy and entitled people just from reading this thread! FYI in my state if you knowingly buy stolen property at a cheap price, even if you are not positive it is stolen but know something is not right, you are just as guilty as the person who sold it and will be charged accordingly. It is a criminal offense no and's if's or but's about it. Your only chance of not having charges brought up against you is the fact that it is bitcoins and not an acknowledged currency as of yet. May be the only way you will stay out of jail. but after reading your very first post i have to say i do not know if i have ever read anything more greedy or self centered in all my life... Funny thing is i cant tell if you are trying to convince everyone else or trying to convince yourself?

[MoonShadow]

This thread is quickly following the path of the other one.  Calm down or I'll lock this one next.

[warweed]

Kevin i feel for you. you made a fair trade and took advantage of the situation i would have done the same damn thing to be honest it's not your fault and it's not mtgox users fault either it is mtgox fault and i would personally sue mtgox if they tried to take my money from me ..

i really hope you guys can come to some form of settlement as no matter what happens due to mtgox's negligence in this situation could ultimatly fuck the entire bitcoin outlook

[bitbot]

I will participate fully in a class action lawsuit against mt. gox

[Astro]

Kevin, when will camwhores.com accept bitcoin?

[elements]

I AM COMPLETLY ON KEVIN'S SIDE AND OPTION 3 IS THE WAY TO GO.

As I already stated anyone who had standing orders bought bitcoins fair and square at the rate they were going for in that moment.
No one of these users said "cool - stolen bitcoins let's have some for small money" NO!!! People entered these standing orders in hope the rate would once go down again and they would be able to buy some more bitcoins (like the early adopters did). Buy this also exporessing their trust that the rate would eventually go up again and thus declaring their commitment to bitcoin. Of course at the time that was more hope than anticipation. Now, as it really did happen, they get their bitcoins taken away from Mt Gox at a whim?? And in addition Mt Gox wants to give anyone how withdrew coins during the crash a NEGATIVE BALANCE??? ARE THEY NUTS?

IF they were smart (which two people handling more than a 100.000.00 USD OPM should be) they would do/have done one of these things:

A1) As soon as the they shut down the servers put an emergency site up saying that everyting is under control or something like that und that within 48 hrs Mt Gox would reopen.

Then they should have cleared their accounts, grabbed their stuff and take the next plane to Brasil (where they can't be expedited).

=> This wouldn't have been a nice move but a smart one.

OR

A2) The should stick to their policy "we do not act as a counter party" - then all they would have to do is to fight with the orginal 500K holder wether Mt Gox is liable for hos loss or not - and if so, how much (percentage).

This would result in a single lawsuit for about 5-8 Million. The court would have to decide about partial liability of the account holder (500K BTC in one account, unsecure password, etc). Then most likely they would settle somehow - maybe at 2.5-4 Million USD

That's it.  Mt Gox would have lost part of the fortune they already gained and could go on. For the persons involved this would also be the least amount of stress.


BUT THEY DECIDED TO ROLLBACK (worst idea ever - not only for the community but for themselves personally)

WHY: Now they have - as they stated about 3.000 traders who profited from the flash crash and whose winnings will be taken away by the rollback. Kevin Day - of course - loodes the most - about 5.000.000 USD.
DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE NONE OF THESE 3.000 PEOPLE WILL HOLD MT GOX ACCOUNTABLE???

Mark will have to face law suits for the rest of his life!
And the funny thing is, that the amount of the law suit is approx. the same as in the option A2 BUT with much less chance to settlement (since you have now about 3.000 parties involved).

This ist the biggest mistake those guys made in their live and they will regret it forever.
Short term the rollback costs them less, but in the end they'll loose everything.


BTW Any one who is investing really money into anything - may it be gold, silver, stocks or bitcoin has NOW to leave Mt Gox since rollbacks are an option (without being announced that this chance exits and in what cases they might occur). You simply cannot invest in market when no fixed rules are abided by. (All the people who bought during the crash did so because they were sure a rollback was not an option - otherwise they would have just enjoyed the spectacle and lay back waiting for the rollbacks to kick in).

In mid- and longterm this will be the worst thing ever for bitcoin. Anyone who is not yet involved in bitcoin and hears about this story and Mt Gox's handling will come to the conclusion: "The whole thing is a scam - a ponzi scheme - You (meaning us) should've known better".

Well, thank you Mt Gox for your hippie attitude - this is not a hobby exchange of playing cards anymore!!! Grow up and act responsibly (or at least turn out to be smart and run as fast as you can!!!)


Well and now I am awaiting the many guys telling me that I am the asshole for being honest. Bring it on!

[myrkul]

 

[jgarzik]

Folks, in the grown-up world, trades are unwound when the market malfunctions.

[Terpie]

Folks, in the grown-up world, trades are unwound when the market malfunctions.

Thank You! Grow up kids. This happens all the time. I understand your emotional rollercoaster, but these rationalizations are getting absurd. And MTGOX fulfilling those trades will make it insolvent much faster than a rollback and having to deal with any dumb lawyer that actually thinks he has standing.

[gigabytecoin]

Folks, in the grown-up world, trades are unwound when the market malfunctions.

This.

[sortedmush]

Hi Kevin,

Your side of the story makes perfect sense to me. How anyone could side with MagicalTux on this, given the "information" he's given is utterly beyond me. I hope everything works out for you.

[stic.man]

Hey Kevin, thanks for mk IV

Sincerely,

Pitchforkmedia smackdown

[jkminkov]

who the F*** is mtgox, does he has a license to gather people's IDs, process and store personal data