I'm Kevin, here's my side.

[d.james]

Let's say we let Kevin keep all of those 200K+ coins,
then mtgox "accidentally" gets hacked again,
and this time that single hacked account happen to be Kevin's
(the hack happened so fast before Kevin could withdraw anything)

What would Kevin say? Rollback or not?

[1713283045]

1713283045

[1713283045]

1713283045

[1713283045]

1713283045

[1713283045]

1713283045

[almbfsek]

he stated too many times that he would be against the rollback.
I think he should return the BTCs but the idea of MtGox rolling transactions back is very disturbing. They will get off too easy.

[Batouzo]

Let's say we let Kevin keep all of those 200K+ coins,
then mtgox "accidentally" gets hacked again,
and this time that single hacked account happen to be Kevin's
(the hack happened so fast before Kevin could withdraw anything)

What would Kevin say? Rollback or not?

This is again, why reimbursing everyone (so doing a rollback while letting people profit as if there would be no-rollback) would be most just (and unrealistic since it requires liek 400,000 usd)

[JonasKohlheim]

Man, I already explained this yesterday....
THE TRANSACTIONS WERENT REAL

The coins that got sold DIDN'T EXIST

The buy you did was a forge

So, stop whining, and accept the rollback.  

This was a CODE-attack, not a real trade.

Sorry for the font sizes and bolds and stuff, but hey, nobody is listening.


For those interested in numbers:
A total of 51 million bitcoins got sold by 1 sell order this Sunday. If you know there are only 6,6 million coins in existment, you can do the math and see it was a fake sell order.

[d.james]

A total of 51 million bitcoins got sold by 1 sell order this Sunday.

source?

[Torminalis]

6,6 million coins in existment

WTF does 'existment' mean?!?

This sounds like the first real news all day!!!

[JonasKohlheim]

A total of 51 million bitcoins got sold by 1 sell order this Sunday.

source?

http://pastebin.com/J0HXBjWu

That's from sunday, the price reached 0.01
In order to reach the price of 0.01, all these orders had to be cleared.
If you paste it in excel and do a count of the amount of bitcoins that people wanted to buy @ 0.01 or higher, then you can see that there needed to be sold a total of 51 million bitcoins in order to clear the whole bid-side of 0.01 or greater, which happened, but was impossible...

Obvious forge is obvious.

[PGPpfKkx]

Robber steals from a bank.



Robber loses his loot on a chase.



You pick up loot.



You're tracked down.



Loot is not yours to keep.



Simple fucking logic.

+2

[Rassah]

Man, I would LOVE to see some of the people threatening lawsuits posting some proof or paperwork showing they're actually trying to do it. Regarding suing to stop the rollback, no lawyer would touch that with a 10 foot pole! Plus it's silly how many people yell "I'll sue!" without even realize that there's a few $100 you have to pay out of pocket just to file the paperwork.
Please, someone who is suing MtGox, show us that you're actually doing it.....
...
anyone?....

[Batouzo]

Robber steals from a bank.
Robber loses his loot on a chase.
You pick up loot.

+2

Fallacy.

It is really more of:
Owner of Art's dealing auction house gets drunk and forgets to lock up doors. Few times. (Or he gives they keys to his friend and he gets drunk). Either way he was warned for weeks to get the damn doors fixed.

Then someone brakes in, and rearranges price tags.

Then you come in and seeing paintings at affordable 13 USD instead usual 17 USD you bid for it and win.
Others do too, some even for 10 USD, 5 USD... and so on.
One dude buys all the paintings for a penny each - you think - what a crazy trade, wtf.

You come back to pickup your painting for 13 USD that you bought, but the owner woken up and closed the auction house.
Sign says it will reopen in few hours. Then in a day. Then "soon".

As buyer of picture at 13 USD I would expect some compensation if it was all a fuckup.

I, personally, would not demand to have the paintings are pries like 10 USD, or 5 USD, or 1 USD,  but some people might want to want to have compensation.

[d.james]

A total of 51 million bitcoins got sold by 1 sell order this Sunday.

source?

http://pastebin.com/J0HXBjWu

That's from sunday, the price reached 0.01
In order to reach the price of 0.01, all these orders had to be cleared.
If you paste it in excel and do a count of the amount of bitcoins that people wanted to buy @ 0.01 or higher, then you can see that there needed to be sold a total of 51 million bitcoins in order to clear the whole bid-side of 0.01 or greater, which happened, but was impossible...

Obvious forge is obvious.

I glanced through the numbers (don't have excel on this PC) and I seriously doubt the total buy orders were even close to the number you claimed.
I don't think it's even close to 1 million...

Are you trying to add up all the numbers in that list? INCLUDING THE DATES PROBABLY.
gosh, get your facts straight before you post bullshit like this!

[BCEmporium]

Used excel to sum it up and yes:

Total: 51,025,991 btc were "exchanged" there.

But this makes things WAY worse! Was MtGox a fractional reserve or the hacking went way further than a simple read-only users db dump?

EDIT: Actually MORE than that number, due to the number format used by my European excel it didn't sum the floats, treat them as strings.

[kjj]

Are we looking at the same data?  I've got 2967 rows (including the header) totalling 237457.099 BTC.

[gnukix]

http://pastebin.com/J0HXBjWu

That's from sunday, the price reached 0.01
In order to reach the price of 0.01, all these orders had to be cleared.
If you paste it in excel and do a count of the amount of bitcoins that people wanted to buy @ 0.01 or higher, then you can see that there needed to be sold a total of 51 million bitcoins in order to clear the whole bid-side of 0.01 or greater, which happened, but was impossible...

Obvious forge is obvious.

How about the obvious again...that there may have been other 'stop loss' sales in the system, and people were (although not many) committing buy and sell orders on the way down outside of the single large sale going on thereby greatly increasing the number of transactions happening as the same coins traded multiple times on the way down.

I'm sure there were losers and winners in this whole game...also, i don't even see remotely close to a million in that list, 237457.099 is the total.

Now shoo troll.

[d.james]

Are we looking at the same data?  I've got 2967 rows (including the header) totalling 237457.099 BTC.

Obviously not, I used the data he provided and estimated no more than half a million, 237k sounds way more reasonable.

[BCEmporium]

Which column are you summing? "Total" or "Amount"?

EDIT: You're right! Just made a small function to sum it up, using the "Amount" column, and the result it:

201,772.872 BTC

Wonder where the hell Excel got that sum [ SUM(C2:C2967) actually outputs 51 Million]. Result: -1 for Excel!

[d.james]

There are about 3000 lines or orders in that txt.

If there were really 51,000,000 BTC orders there,

each line should average about 17,000 BTCs

Show me an order or two which had that much amounts.

KTHXBYtrolls

[kjj]

amount sum is 237,457.099.  total sum is $1,321,904.20618504.

[gnukix]

here's the same data, with the running total.

http://pastebin.com/jXqmLKuc

(pffff excel...Perl for the win)

http://pastebin.com/J0HXBjWu

That's from sunday, the price reached 0.01
In order to reach the price of 0.01, all these orders had to be cleared.
If you paste it in excel and do a count of the amount of bitcoins that people wanted to buy @ 0.01 or higher, then you can see that there needed to be sold a total of 51 million bitcoins in order to clear the whole bid-side of 0.01 or greater, which happened, but was impossible...

Obvious forge is obvious.

How about the obvious again...that there may have been other 'stop loss' sales in the system, and people were (although not many) committing buy and sell orders on the way down outside of the single large sale going on thereby greatly increasing the number of transactions happening as the same coins traded multiple times on the way down.

I'm sure there were losers and winners in this whole game...also, i don't even see remotely close to a million in that list, 237457.099 is the total.

Now shoo troll.

[d.james]

So yes, one account with 500k BTC can fill every buy order on the market at the time,

and still have about 260K left waiting to be sold at 0.01 each.