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Question: Have you received your refund or unit yet?
Yes - 10 (38.5%)
No - 16 (61.5%)
Total Voters: 26

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Author Topic: Avalon batch [3] countdown!  (Read 56471 times)
ProfMac
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July 12, 2013, 03:46:49 PM
 #261

For any that didn't see the mailing they have the official Batch 3 refund link but it must be submitted by July 14th, Monday which is when they claim to start shipping batch 3.

Does anybody know who I contact about change of address??

Batch three Refund
Understandably, batch three has been overdue for a few weeks, whilst shipping is due to start Monday, and finish within 2 weeks. Those who do not wish to wait can fill out the form for a refund, please note the deadline for these refunds is before the 14th, once we start shipping we will not be honoring any refunds that gets posted.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qYcIa0TQqUDJzvaKrF8mlJFfPRbf_h5d85Ers3wu040/viewform?pli=1


S**t!

I'm on vacation right now and I don't have the info required. I opened a ticket on support.avalon-asics before leaving with all the fields filled.

How I hate when they can be months late but you need to fill a form in two days Sad

spiccioli.

Do you want a refund and don't envision a mechanism to get it?

I try to be respectful and informed.
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Anenome5
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July 13, 2013, 03:10:40 AM
 #262

So do you guys think ROI is possible with batch 3's?  With all the avalon chips being sent out, all the new miner companies getting their products ready, ASICminer with their unlimited funds... I tried doing some numbers and it doesn't look good Sad

At 5-7 mil difficulty increase which is currently happening break even is about 4-5 months. But I don't think it will stay that slow as there's a ton of new companies and people getting in.
Looks reeeally risky at this point. Had they shipped two months ago we'd all be sitting pretty. But now? With KNC potentially shipping in Sept? With Bitfury, and AMiner ramping up through the end of the year? And Avalon shipping how many hundred thousand chips?

You can either keep your batch three 85 gh/sec 4-unit or pull a refund and buy 600gh/sec from KNC (Jupiter and a Saturn) and get it like two months from now. The latter seems a better bet at this point.

I have to say it's mighty decent of Bitsyncom to offer full refunds, in bitcoin no less. What will they do with the leftover machines?


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July 13, 2013, 03:17:24 AM
 #263

The question is... what are the odds that KNC will be able to deliver on time.

Bitfury though seems to be on track with chips that work (albeit not at the speed they wanted).  They however are distracted by the main focus which is their 100TH mine.

Basically the only games in town "right now" for B3 order holders is Avalon and AM.  AM is definitely a bad deal.  Avalon??

/shrug
batman, not crabman
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July 13, 2013, 03:58:37 AM
 #264

I don't think they'll ROI personally.  I had a play with this calculator a few weeks back (http://www.coinish.com/calc/ - link doesn't work anymore) and found that if delivery was later than about 5 weeks (~3 weeks from now I think) then they wouldn't ROI in BTC.  If anyone knows of another good mining calculator that takes difficulty increases into account let me know.  Apparently you can get 100 Ghash/sec out of overclocked 4 module Avalons but I would assume it needs water cooling (or good aircon at a minimum) and it would be a bit risky as it would reduce the lifespan of the chips I think.
FTR I've applied for a refund.

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July 13, 2013, 04:17:12 AM
 #265

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXn4BnLUgYsdEF0TUtWUWtUaUUzR1F2aUhEWW9lN2c#gid=0

Here is another one.
Both indicated that you might break even if you received the miner as promised some time next week.
And at most you will make a few hundreds profit even if you mine forever (already taken overclocking into account)....so whats the point?
But who knows, what if btc sky rocket to 300usd again? Smiley

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July 13, 2013, 04:47:51 AM
 #266

You can either keep your batch three 85 gh/sec 4-unit or pull a refund and buy 600gh/sec from KNC (Jupiter and a Saturn) and get it like two months from now. The latter seems a better bet at this point.

I think this is the best idea. Gamble on an ROI in 5 months to never, or get all money and invest it in a few other things.
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July 13, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
 #267

Now that we know when they would have been shipped roughly, the appropriate price for a batch-3 four-unit should've been roughly 40-45 bitcoin, not 99 (for a 30-day to ROI). Which would've been ~$3200 back when these sold with the price of btc at ~$80.

I bet if that had been the price, few would be asking for a refund right now. Alternately, if Bitsyncom had offered 59 btc refunds back to that price level that would've been perhaps better than giving full refunds.

But again, I laud Bitsyncom for doing the honorable thing and offering full refunds in BTC. Once again they make BFL look bad by comparison, and I'd be happy to shake Guo's hand any day. Whereas, I doubt Inaba can show his face anywhere bitcoin-related without watching his back Tongue

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July 13, 2013, 10:02:27 AM
 #268

Now that we know when they would have been shipped roughly, the appropriate price for a batch-3 four-unit should've been roughly 40-45 bitcoin, not 99 (for a 30-day to ROI). Which would've been ~$3200 back when these sold with the price of btc at ~$80.

I bet if that had been the price, few would be asking for a refund right now. Alternately, if Bitsyncom had offered 59 btc refunds back to that price level that would've been perhaps better than giving full refunds.

But again, I laud Bitsyncom for doing the honorable thing and offering full refunds in BTC. Once again they make BFL look bad by comparison, and I'd be happy to shake Guo's hand any day. Whereas, I doubt Inaba can show his face anywhere bitcoin-related without watching his back Tongue

So we can get full refund?  I'm getting tired of waiting too!  I think I'll take the refund.
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July 13, 2013, 10:13:38 AM
 #269

You got the last newsletter? You have one day to decide for a refund.
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July 14, 2013, 01:03:31 AM
 #270


But who knows, what if btc sky rocket to 300usd again? Smiley


That's irrelevant if you deciding whether to get a refund or not.  If you get a refund you've still got the BTC you paid for the unit up front (in theory).  If you don't you have to wait god knows how long to get your BTC back, if at all.
If you get a refund then you can invest in other things like ASICMiner, which still has a pretty decent ROI all things considered.

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July 14, 2013, 01:49:50 AM
 #271

Did anybody succeeded in changing the shipping address of avalon batch#3 order?
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July 14, 2013, 02:02:55 AM
Last edit: July 14, 2013, 02:20:09 AM by Anenome5
 #272

Now that we know when they would have been shipped roughly, the appropriate price for a batch-3 four-unit should've been roughly 40-45 bitcoin, not 99 (for a 30-day to ROI). Which would've been ~$3200 back when these sold with the price of btc at ~$80.

I bet if that had been the price, few would be asking for a refund right now. Alternately, if Bitsyncom had offered 59 btc refunds back to that price level that would've been perhaps better than giving full refunds.

But again, I laud Bitsyncom for doing the honorable thing and offering full refunds in BTC. Once again they make BFL look bad by comparison, and I'd be happy to shake Guo's hand any day. Whereas, I doubt Inaba can show his face anywhere bitcoin-related without watching his back Tongue

So we can get full refund?  I'm getting tired of waiting too!  I think I'll take the refund.
Yes, you can in fact get a full refund delivered to the address of your choice. They gave the link for refunds in a recent email. You have until the 14th (tomorrow) to ask, as they say they'll stop accepting refunds when they begin shipping on Monday. Which is also slant confirmation that shipping begins on the 15th.

The numbers just don't make sense to me anymore. 2 months ago would've been okay, but today it's real thin. And that's not even counting the diff increase that batch-3 will result in, which won't be insignificant.

From looking at the numbers, if you had the machine today and diff increases at only its historical average, it's ~4.4 months to break even in terms of BTC.

Knc might ship in as little as two months! And I personally think they will ship, and that will be a far higher diff increase than we've seen so far this year from anyone except AsicMiner. AM will increase their hashing to match Knc's output and just about everyone else will be left in the dust. Avalons will still be net profitable to mine per day, they're still efficient enough, but they won't have had enough lead time to achieve ROI and if Knc ships, they may never achieve ROI. Which is a damn shame. No one's fault, just how the dice rolled.

Both Avalon and Knc are going to be working on 2nd gen ASIC devices, that's where I'll be looking next. Something in the high single or multiple terrahash range for about 50+ btc. Something like a fully custom ASIC such as Bitfury has produced which is the most efficient chip out there now on a hash/watt basis, but in a large die size like KNC produced, and with the modern process size, sub-28nm.

There's something quite beautiful about a free-market drive for ultra-efficient processing Smiley And this is only the beginning. If a random company were building payment processing, I doubt they'd build full-on ASICs to take care of it. I'll bet Visa just has giant server farms all over based on stock equipment.

I suppose it won't be long before ASIC-chasers like us exhaust modern tech and begin pushing into exotics. I don't think anyone has more incentive to use ultra-efficient designs than bitcoin miners. How long until we see designs using carbon transistors and the like, stuff that is still in labs today. Gonna be exciting to watch Smiley

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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July 15, 2013, 12:46:01 AM
 #273

For any that didn't see the mailing they have the official Batch 3 refund link but it must be submitted by July 14th, Monday which is when they claim to start shipping batch 3.

Does anybody know who I contact about change of address??

Batch three Refund
Understandably, batch three has been overdue for a few weeks, whilst shipping is due to start Monday, and finish within 2 weeks. Those who do not wish to wait can fill out the form for a refund, please note the deadline for these refunds is before the 14th, once we start shipping we will not be honoring any refunds that gets posted.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qYcIa0TQqUDJzvaKrF8mlJFfPRbf_h5d85Ers3wu040/viewform?pli=1

Finally caught up
Scaling up production has been problematic for us in the past, but today? No more. The speed which we finished shipping batch #2 which took about 3 weeks (aside from custom issues with Serbia and Germany), batch #3 will be no different, and will be even faster. We modified the module upgrade design so it'll fit both generation 1 and generation 2 case setups, the chips are being moved to shanghai so they may begin to deliver by mid-july, trade-in list has been acquired and cleaned up. ( I hope everyone already have an account on the store. ) The Avalon team are very excited to get these things over with so we may get back to engineering.

In Summary
Trade-in emails are going out at the same time as this newsletter.
The chips is scheduled to start delivering mid-july in order which they were purchased.
Batch three starts shipping mid-july, expected to finish within 2 weeks as there is no order issues unlike batch #2
Part of batch #3 will have different design as we continue to improve our unit.
Once batch three starts shipping and no problem arises, we will begin taking orders for upgrade modules.
upgrade modules will be in-stock as there is no pre-order, delivery time frame 3-5 days.
Next generation chip is in the works, 55nm will not be very different physically for backward compatibility.
We will make announcement at least 2 month prior of 55nm release so those who purchase our generation one chip will not be in the dark.

How do you know about this refund?
I have an order in batch 3 and I did not receive any e-mail...
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July 15, 2013, 12:59:16 AM
 #274

How do you know about this refund?
I have an order in batch 3 and I did not receive any e-mail...


You ordered a 10,000 USD machine from a company and didn't sign up for their news letter?

/boggles

Though in complete fairness, Bitsyncom should have signed up people automatically... even though their communication was... ahh... minimal...  during the last 4 months.
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July 15, 2013, 01:06:40 AM
 #275

How do you know about this refund?
I have an order in batch 3 and I did not receive any e-mail...


You ordered a 10,000 USD machine from a company and didn't sign up for their news letter?

/boggles

Though in complete fairness, Bitsyncom should have signed up people automatically... even though their communication was... ahh... minimal...  during the last 4 months.

Wow! Bloody hell! I did not know that because generally I hate subscriptions and newer subscribe myself.
They definitely should do it automatically when I create an order!
 
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July 15, 2013, 10:19:06 AM
 #276

So there is already 18 (6 pm) 15 June Monday in China and no reports of shipping  Huh Thats not good.
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July 15, 2013, 11:49:59 AM
 #277

Sorry, but Unfortunately  our SMT-Line is broken. We wait for replacement parts. Delivery of Batch 3 is delayed for another 4 Weeks!

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July 15, 2013, 12:04:24 PM
 #278

Sorry, but Unfortunately  our SMT-Line is broken. We wait for replacement parts. Delivery of Batch 3 is delayed for another 4 Weeks!

You forgot to say, 4 weeks after they first deliver all missing of batch 1 and 2 who still crying on forums being ignored. Should give something like 8 weeks from now...

If at least people was informed...receiving some expected communations from the team they funded...

Crypto-trade.com : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.0
https://koddos.com and http://kovpslayer.com.  "Bitcointalkdiscount" to get 10% discount recurring.
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July 15, 2013, 12:11:09 PM
 #279

Sorry, but Unfortunately  our SMT-Line is broken. We wait for replacement parts. Delivery of Batch 3 is delayed for another 4 Weeks!

You forgot to say, 4 weeks after they first deliver all missing of batch 1 and 2 who still crying on forums being ignored. Should give something like 8 weeks from now...

If at least people was informed...receiving some expected communations from the team they funded...

Maybe they are trying to consolidate their orders with refunds (so they don't waste money on shipping to someone who is going to refuse it), and the large number of refund requests were unexpected.
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July 15, 2013, 12:16:21 PM
 #280

Sorry, but Unfortunately  our SMT-Line is broken. We wait for replacement parts. Delivery of Batch 3 is delayed for another 4 Weeks!

You forgot to say, 4 weeks after they first deliver all missing of batch 1 and 2 who still crying on forums being ignored. Should give something like 8 weeks from now...

If at least people was informed...receiving some expected communations from the team they funded...

Maybe they are trying to consolidate their orders with refunds (so they don't waste money on shipping to someone who is going to refuse it), and the large number of refund requests were unexpected.


Yes maybe. The refund request should be anticipated when they stopped to communicate or so with us after getting all preorder... then we became embarrasing forum poster for them...So they should expect people was not patient as they would, especially when people know that avalon have mined with units of batch 1 and 2 before to deliver (and some still waiting)

Crypto-trade.com : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.0
https://koddos.com and http://kovpslayer.com.  "Bitcointalkdiscount" to get 10% discount recurring.
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