[ANN] PayPie - Blockchain-Powered Risk Assessment

[kraterion]

So many posts in here without any value. Would be happy if people would bring back some challenging and constructive discussions into this thread again.

There isn't much to say anymore, we're waiting for pre-sale announcement and 15th october for ICO start. If you want we can discuss on this maybe https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/14/credit-rating-remortgage-equifax-experian-callcredit .No more mistakes with PayPie

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[haxllega]

when to wait for the exchange of coins?

ICO not over and people start asking for exchange listings. Just give the team the time they need to developd a good product insead of waiting to instadump your tokens as fast as possible.

Well, that's how the market is now. People willing to invest waiting immediate returns. That's how it is, and it allows projects to raise important funds so they must play the game too.

Indeed, dumping the coins after release on exchanges. Happens with every ICO and then.... after some weeks the price went x15 and then they keep banging there heads agains the wall

Paypie is a project for a long hold! Hold your investments and you will have a huge profit after some years.
This project is unique and will be added on exchanges soon after ICO

Yes, I agree, Paypie looks promising at the moment. But how exactly will grow their business only time will tell. I have some doubts that they will have a lot of customers in the beginning.

At first they should start with small companies and after they got some reputation bigger companies will also start to use it.

[mike0182]

How do I understand this will be something like a global ledger with the possibility to consult and obtaining financial information using their tokens?

[Rigorous]

So many posts in here without any value. Would be happy if people would bring back some challenging and constructive discussions into this thread again.

There isn't much to say anymore, we're waiting for pre-sale announcement and 15th october for ICO start. If you want we can discuss on this maybe https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/14/credit-rating-remortgage-equifax-experian-callcredit .No more mistakes with PayPie

There are some open questions still. For example I thought the remark about collateral was interesting.

Will PayPie's credit risk score algorithm be enough to protect invoice buyers from defaults?

Who dares to be the first invoice buyer when the algorithm does not have enough data to base a score on, and how do you build up a credit score as an invoice seller who is just starting out?

Banks are okay with that because they demand collateral to secure the loan.

But what will help secure invoice buyers from invoices sold at PayPie that will default?

The PayPie platform is centered around transparency, credit scores and smart contracts. Here are some key quotes from the whitepaper:

PayPie's credit scoring data will be indicating and assessing the risk of invoice default so that buyers can make educated decisions.

To prevent defaults, all parties involved will be able to rate each other at the end of the transaction and this history will be recorded on the immutable Ethereum blockchain to build a Decentralized Trust and Transparency Rating (DTTR) so that others can make well-informed lending decisions. Smart contracts will automatically amend each party’s trust rating according to an algorithm after completion of the lending process.

For example, if a smart contract can be written between an investor and an invoice seller to say that once the seller is victorious in reaching a particular credit score in PayPie platform, 80% of the funds will be released to the invoice seller.

I suppose you would be right to say that there is no mention of physical or monetary collateral. The main collateral appears to be their credit score and their reputation. If an invoice seller defaults that will be for everyone to see forever.

[matjas]

when to wait for the exchange of coins?

ICO not over and people start asking for exchange listings. Just give the team the time they need to developd a good product insead of waiting to instadump your tokens as fast as possible.

Well, that's how the market is now. People willing to invest waiting immediate returns. That's how it is, and it allows projects to raise important funds so they must play the game too.

Indeed, dumping the coins after release on exchanges. Happens with every ICO and then.... after some weeks the price went x15 and then they keep banging there heads agains the wall

Paypie is a project for a long hold! Hold your investments and you will have a huge profit after some years.
This project is unique and will be added on exchanges soon after ICO

Pretty much every recent project required you to hold coins long term since they usually dont have working platforms to show in the beginning.
I dont really like this trend but i guess you cant do it differently.

[Korsakopf]

So many posts in here without any value. Would be happy if people would bring back some challenging and constructive discussions into this thread again.

There isn't much to say anymore, we're waiting for pre-sale announcement and 15th october for ICO start. If you want we can discuss on this maybe https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/14/credit-rating-remortgage-equifax-experian-callcredit .No more mistakes with PayPie

Not sure if we can immediately say that there will be no more mistakes, but the basis will be a lot more secure at least. The blockchain itself has proven that it's quite unhackable, but projects build on top of it can still contain flaws. With Equifax it really also was human error, didn't somebody have a super basic login/password?

[mirx]

For me this project looks like a big experiment. I hope that ICO will be a success and then in Q1 2018 we'll see the results. The business model looks promising and I'll be closely watching Paypie in 2018.

[Dorky]

There is actually a weak link in PayPie compare to Populous.

Populous has Poken for internal exchange, pegged to fiats; PayPie has Pie coin for the same purpose.

But there is one advantage Populous has that PayPie has not.

PayPie requires the SMEs to submit their financials to the blockchain in order to sell their invoices, but this is not the weakest link.
The weakest link is the company that owes the SME selling the invoice!
The SME has absolutely nothing to do with it if the company does not want to settle the invoice.
If I owe you money, and you issue an invoice for that, and you sell that invoice to Mr. Noob, and I choose not to pay you, you have no worries because you already got the money from selling the invoice.
It's the buyer (Mr. Noob) that will suffer if I don't pay.
The SME submitting its financials to the blockchain is completely irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the SME that sells the invoice is also irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the customer that owe the SME is also irrelevant, because ultimately the SME wants the business.
In a world of stiff competition, the SMEs have no luxury to cherry-pick which customer to sell to, regardless of their risk scores.
Many here claim to be accountants, but I am surprised why they can't see through this weak link.
This is a risk of default.
Populous already solved this from the very start.

Edit:
The factoring industry is lucrative, and that's because bulk of it is related to consumer debt (sold pennies on the dollar), not corporate debt.
And recovery is usually through persistent threats.
This won't work with corporate figures.

Lots of SMEs will love this because they can finally unload their junk invoices to gullible buyers willing to bid up the price for such junk.

[the_donald]

So many posts in here without any value. Would be happy if people would bring back some challenging and constructive discussions into this thread again.

There isn't much to say anymore, we're waiting for pre-sale announcement and 15th october for ICO start. If you want we can discuss on this maybe https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/14/credit-rating-remortgage-equifax-experian-callcredit .No more mistakes with PayPie

man if this takes off, all investors are gonna be rich. there's definitely a need for a new kid in town,especially with the scandals that have happened.

[Elkmar]

when to wait for the exchange of coins?

ICO not over and people start asking for exchange listings. Just give the team the time they need to developd a good product insead of waiting to instadump your tokens as fast as possible.

Well, that's how the market is now. People willing to invest waiting immediate returns. That's how it is, and it allows projects to raise important funds so they must play the game too.

Indeed, dumping the coins after release on exchanges. Happens with every ICO and then.... after some weeks the price went x15 and then they keep banging there heads agains the wall

Paypie is a project for a long hold! Hold your investments and you will have a huge profit after some years.
This project is unique and will be added on exchanges soon after ICO

Pretty much every recent project required you to hold coins long term since they usually dont have working platforms to show in the beginning.
I dont really like this trend but i guess you cant do it differently.

Well, I plan to not touch every ICO in which I invested for a while.

I could have some good surprises in some months/years.

[haxllega]

when to wait for the exchange of coins?

ICO not over and people start asking for exchange listings. Just give the team the time they need to developd a good product insead of waiting to instadump your tokens as fast as possible.

Well, that's how the market is now. People willing to invest waiting immediate returns. That's how it is, and it allows projects to raise important funds so they must play the game too.

Indeed, dumping the coins after release on exchanges. Happens with every ICO and then.... after some weeks the price went x15 and then they keep banging there heads agains the wall

Paypie is a project for a long hold! Hold your investments and you will have a huge profit after some years.
This project is unique and will be added on exchanges soon after ICO

Pretty much every recent project required you to hold coins long term since they usually dont have working platforms to show in the beginning.
I dont really like this trend but i guess you cant do it differently.

If you more a trader than an investor I would suggest you to trade coins which are on the market for some time.

[Heimer]

when to wait for the exchange of coins?

ICO not over and people start asking for exchange listings. Just give the team the time they need to developd a good product insead of waiting to instadump your tokens as fast as possible.

Well, that's how the market is now. People willing to invest waiting immediate returns. That's how it is, and it allows projects to raise important funds so they must play the game too.

Indeed, dumping the coins after release on exchanges. Happens with every ICO and then.... after some weeks the price went x15 and then they keep banging there heads agains the wall

Paypie is a project for a long hold! Hold your investments and you will have a huge profit after some years.
This project is unique and will be added on exchanges soon after ICO

Pretty much every recent project required you to hold coins long term since they usually dont have working platforms to show in the beginning.
I dont really like this trend but i guess you cant do it differently.

Well, I plan to not touch every ICO in which I invested for a while.

I could have some good surprises in some months/years.

This is very good practice my friend. You don't have to watch market all the time and you won't be worried about sudden price drops. When whole platform will be build, price of tokens will certainly jump up

[kraterion]

There is actually a weak link in PayPie compare to Populous.

Populous has Poken for internal exchange, pegged to fiats; PayPie has Pie coin for the same purpose.

But there is one advantage Populous has that PayPie has not.

PayPie requires the SMEs to submit their financials to the blockchain in order to sell their invoices, but this is not the weakest link.
The weakest link is the company that owes the SME selling the invoice!
The SME has absolutely nothing to do with it if the company does not want to settle the invoice.
If I owe you money, and you issue an invoice for that, and you sell that invoice to Mr. Noob, and I choose not to pay you, you have no worries because you already got the money from selling the invoice.
It's the buyer (Mr. Noob) that will suffer if I don't pay.
The SME submitting its financials to the blockchain is completely irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the SME that sells the invoice is also irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the customer that owe the SME is also irrelevant, because ultimately the SME wants the business.
In a world of stiff competition, the SMEs have no luxury to cherry-pick which customer to sell to, regardless of their risk scores.
Many here claim to be accountants, but I am surprised why they can't see through this weak link.
This is a risk of default.
Populous already solved this from the very start.

Edit:
The factoring industry is lucrative, and that's because bulk of it is related to consumer debt (sold pennies on the dollar), not corporate debt.
And recovery is usually through persistent threats.
This won't work with corporate figures.

Lots of SMEs will love this because they can finally unload their junk invoices to gullible buyers willing to bid up the price for such junk.

Can you elaborate more? What did Populous do to solve right from the start this issue you just mentioned? And sorry I don't know much about Popolous

[magisterr]

Popolous still dont have ready platform as I know. They conducted fundraising in june.
And also, Popolous have a little different idea. Popolous is an invoice platform.

[Korsakopf]

Popolous still dont have ready platform as I know. They conducted fundraising in june.
And also, Popolous have a little different idea. Popolous is an invoice platform.

Exactly, Paypie is so much more then just an invoice platform, they have much bigger goals. That being said, Populous is already a lot further of course with their platform.

[Wapinter]

Killing PayPie FUD

[Wapinter]

There is actually a weak link in PayPie compare to Populous.

Populous has Poken for internal exchange, pegged to fiats; PayPie has Pie coin for the same purpose.

But there is one advantage Populous has that PayPie has not.

PayPie requires the SMEs to submit their financials to the blockchain in order to sell their invoices, but this is not the weakest link.
The weakest link is the company that owes the SME selling the invoice!
The SME has absolutely nothing to do with it if the company does not want to settle the invoice.
If I owe you money, and you issue an invoice for that, and you sell that invoice to Mr. Noob, and I choose not to pay you, you have no worries because you already got the money from selling the invoice.
It's the buyer (Mr. Noob) that will suffer if I don't pay.
The SME submitting its financials to the blockchain is completely irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the SME that sells the invoice is also irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the customer that owe the SME is also irrelevant, because ultimately the SME wants the business.
In a world of stiff competition, the SMEs have no luxury to cherry-pick which customer to sell to, regardless of their risk scores.
Many here claim to be accountants, but I am surprised why they can't see through this weak link.
This is a risk of default.
Populous already solved this from the very start.

Edit:
The factoring industry is lucrative, and that's because bulk of it is related to consumer debt (sold pennies on the dollar), not corporate debt.
And recovery is usually through persistent threats.
This won't work with corporate figures.

Lots of SMEs will love this because they can finally unload their junk invoices to gullible buyers willing to bid up the price for such junk.

You are forgetting the fact that changing the beneficiary name is part of the Smart Contract. If it’s a brand new customer, risk would be shown as high. Nick has mentioned that if it’s a repeat customer with long history and business has good financial health, it will improve the risk score. Further they mentioned that they will do KYC on all SMEs looking for liquidity. All this would be on top of the standard financial process that would be in place to prevent loan defaults or steps to take to aid debt recovery. In fact there are debt collection mechanisms that are well established in offline financial industry. You lend money only to businesses who have sound financial health and they just need it for short period to manage their cash flow. Other companies can't even check the double invoicing issue becuase invoice entry is manual so anyone can enter it.

[Heimer]

Popolous still dont have ready platform as I know. They conducted fundraising in june.
And also, Popolous have a little different idea. Popolous is an invoice platform.

Populous has totally different idea and they still didn't achieve much. Paypie will have some kind of risk management system build in that will improve overal worth of this token

[beefsheets]

Has the pre-ico been announced yet? I signed up for emails on their website but never received anything.

[Rigorous]

There is actually a weak link in PayPie compare to Populous.

Populous has Poken for internal exchange, pegged to fiats; PayPie has Pie coin for the same purpose.

But there is one advantage Populous has that PayPie has not.

PayPie requires the SMEs to submit their financials to the blockchain in order to sell their invoices, but this is not the weakest link.
The weakest link is the company that owes the SME selling the invoice!
The SME has absolutely nothing to do with it if the company does not want to settle the invoice.
If I owe you money, and you issue an invoice for that, and you sell that invoice to Mr. Noob, and I choose not to pay you, you have no worries because you already got the money from selling the invoice.
It's the buyer (Mr. Noob) that will suffer if I don't pay.
The SME submitting its financials to the blockchain is completely irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the SME that sells the invoice is also irrelevant.
Putting a risk score on the customer that owe the SME is also irrelevant, because ultimately the SME wants the business.
In a world of stiff competition, the SMEs have no luxury to cherry-pick which customer to sell to, regardless of their risk scores.
Many here claim to be accountants, but I am surprised why they can't see through this weak link.
This is a risk of default.
Populous already solved this from the very start.

Edit:
The factoring industry is lucrative, and that's because bulk of it is related to consumer debt (sold pennies on the dollar), not corporate debt.
And recovery is usually through persistent threats.
This won't work with corporate figures.

Lots of SMEs will love this because they can finally unload their junk invoices to gullible buyers willing to bid up the price for such junk.

You are forgetting the fact that changing the beneficiary name is part of the Smart Contract. If it’s a brand new customer, risk would be shown as high. Nick has mentioned that if it’s a repeat customer with long history and business has good financial health, it will improve the risk score. Further they mentioned that they will do KYC on all SMEs looking for liquidity. All this would be on top of the standard financial process that would be in place to prevent loan defaults or steps to take to aid debt recovery. In fact there are debt collection mechanisms that are well established in offline financial industry. You lend money only to businesses who have sound financial health and they just need it for short period to manage their cash flow. Other companies can't even check the double invoicing issue becuase invoice entry is manual so anyone can enter it.

I think Dorky means this example:

Let’s say you own a business that sells rubber to Nike for their shoes. You are good at your job, but it takes Nike 90-120 days to pay you for your work. Marketplace lender will buy that invoice from you at a discount & then wait for Nike to pay the original sum to the lender.

PayPie will show a credit score risk of my business. But who or what protects the buyer of my invoice from Nike? Do you mean that Nike is also automatically in the PayPie platform and has an influence on the credit score of my business?