I'm starting to get fucking pissed (BFL)

[frankenmint]

My advice: get a refund and don't look back.

My advise is - Unite and go to the court. It is US company after all. Where is American justice on the movies only or? I am pretty dam sure that there will be a plenty of lawyers interested in such big case we are talking for millions. When they see a REAL i repeat A !REAL! thread about their business and personalities things will start to move in a right direction FAST!

Remember - You have to unite first and act as ONE otherwise you are going to loose for SURE

Best
PS:
I can bet if all of you fire a claim worth for millions for preordes and another one 10xMilions for lost profits you will be rewarded with a lot of free units and all other fancy stuff coming from BFL. But i doubt it will happen because here everyone watches his own interest only and there is no community spirit at all. I might be wrong about the lack of spirit and i do really want to be ...only time will tell

If Landlord was just like BFL they would kick out BFL when they start bitching about the rent increases...Hence they are being shortsighted

[Rakessh]

2 Months later.. And nothing. Reminder: I am within the first month of pre-orders and I am coming from an upgrade.

So you didn't get a refund, and now you missed the train on the avalon klondikes first batches too?
You know they're going to be delivered far ahead of BFL, right?

Just because they didn't deliver yesterday, doesn't mean they are going to deliver tomorrow. Remember the Gamblers Fallacy?

Get out while you can

[Syke]

The sooner you get a refund, the sooner you can buy a quality product from people who know what they're doing.

https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=61

[firefop]

I think all the early pre-orderers are a bit upset that they could have made a ridiculous amount of money if they had gone with either Avalon or ASICMiner.  *sigh*

The problem wasn't "money was tied up with bfl" it was "ordering an avalon was random and frustrating because of f-tarded order site" and "asicminer goes against everything bitcoin is about"

So ok, it would have been nice to clear a thousand bucks a day for awhile. But honestly, people are just too greedy. Whenever you get your BFL orders it's still going to make money, and it would have been stupid to not upgrade if you already had fpga gear from them.

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week. If it's in a month or 2 from now... maybe it takes 2 or 3 weeks. There's no reason after waiting this long to cancel any order imo... much less an upgrade order.

And yes I actually have a bunch of bfl orders (I even did some upgrades after the 60gh went away and the price went up - just to get discounts from my last 2 fpga). But I also have ~90k usd sitting around waiting for a legitimate hardware vendor to offer a good delivery time on a decent product.

As much as you guys want avalon and/or asicminer to be that product is just simply isn't. I can understand the geek-out over avalon chips since you can apparently actually get those. You may never regret those orders either, but you will be shutting them off much much sooner than anyone using a bfl product.

The thing everyone has to understand is... this isn't a video game, nobody gets completionist acheivements at life. So stop getting all bent out of shape and take a look at your situation with a fresh attitude. Traditional investments earning 100% per year are unheard of (except for scams)... even if it takes you a year to get what you order, once you roi in 2 weeks you shouldn't care.

[YipYip]

I think all the early pre-orderers are a bit upset that they could have made a ridiculous amount of money if they had gone with either Avalon or ASICMiner.  *sigh*

The problem wasn't "money was tied up with bfl" it was "ordering an avalon was random and frustrating because of f-tarded order site" and "asicminer goes against everything bitcoin is about"

So ok, it would have been nice to clear a thousand bucks a day for awhile. But honestly, people are just too greedy. Whenever you get your BFL orders it's still going to make money, and it would have been stupid to not upgrade if you already had fpga gear from them.

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week. If it's in a month or 2 from now... maybe it takes 2 or 3 weeks. There's no reason after waiting this long to cancel any order imo... much less an upgrade order.

And yes I actually have a bunch of bfl orders (I even did some upgrades after the 60gh went away and the price went up - just to get discounts from my last 2 fpga). But I also have ~90k usd sitting around waiting for a legitimate hardware vendor to offer a good delivery time on a decent product.

As much as you guys want avalon and/or asicminer to be that product is just simply isn't. I can understand the geek-out over avalon chips since you can apparently actually get those. You may never regret those orders either, but you will be shutting them off much much sooner than anyone using a bfl product.

The thing everyone has to understand is... this isn't a video game, nobody gets completionist acheivements at life. So stop getting all bent out of shape and take a look at your situation with a fresh attitude. Traditional investments earning 100% per year are unheard of (except for scams)... even if it takes you a year to get what you order, once you roi in 2 weeks you shouldn't care.

Is easy to say when  you have

90k USD sitting around waiting for something cool or intresting

Sorry to say asshat but a lot of normal ppl DO NOT have this luxury..

[Anduck]

I guess the guy with 90 k USD missed the train already, again!

(bitfury mining gear is now for sale)

[k9quaint]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week. If it's in a month or 2 from now... maybe it takes 2 or 3 weeks. There's no reason after waiting this long to cancel any order imo... much less an upgrade order.

If you could order now and get a single, then nobody would be upset with BFL and this thread would not exist.

And ROI for $2500 (~26 BTC) for a BFL Single ordered today, arriving today and mining at today's difficulty is a month, not a week. But that situation is impossible, since for an item ordered today to be delivered by BFL their entire back log would have to be delivered. That backlog would at least double and probably triple difficulty. So you are looking at 2 months and more likely 3 months (assuming zero growth in difficulty) for ROI to be positive on a single ordered and delivered today.

In reality, the single would not be delivered until September (if Josh finally keeps a promise about when things ship) or more likely later in the fall or even winter. That means those 2 million Avalon chips that just arrived need to be added to the hash rate as well. That is another 550 TH/s which would bring difficulty to over 80 million. Then you have to hope that neither Bitfury nor KNC deliver. You have to hope that ASICMiner doesn't dump more mining power in as well. That is a pretty grim outlook.

People who ordered from BFL last summer would have been better off just keeping their BTC instead of trying to mine for it with BFL equipment. There is no way they will earn all that BTC back. 

[Syke]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

[Rakessh]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week. If it's in a month or 2 from now... maybe it takes 2 or 3 weeks. There's no reason after waiting this long to cancel any order imo... much less an upgrade order.

If you could order now and get a single, then nobody would be upset with BFL and this thread would not exist.

And ROI for $2500 (~26 BTC) for a BFL Single ordered today, arriving today and mining at today's difficulty is a month, not a week. But that situation is impossible, since for an item ordered today to be delivered by BFL their entire back log would have to be delivered. That backlog would at least double and probably triple difficulty. So you are looking at 2 months and more likely 3 months (assuming zero growth in difficulty) for ROI to be positive on a single ordered and delivered today.

In reality, the single would not be delivered until September (if Josh finally keeps a promise about when things ship) or more likely later in the fall or even winter. That means those 2 million Avalon chips that just arrived need to be added to the hash rate as well. That is another 550 TH/s which would bring difficulty to over 80 million. Then you have to hope that neither Bitfury nor KNC deliver. You have to hope that ASICMiner doesn't dump more mining power in as well. That is a pretty grim outlook.

People who ordered from BFL last summer would have been better off just keeping their BTC instead of trying to mine for it with BFL equipment. There is no way they will earn all that BTC back.  

If you order a single now, then BFL will still use 3-4 times longer (ie, almost a year) than the others to deliver you a product, and you will be upset looking at your calendar... 6 th of May 2014, and reading on their forum... "Next week or so, we'll start shipping, I think...." ;-)

[SLok]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

A 60GH single delivered today makes $3,410 a month, Syke and facts, bleh

[Xian01]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

A 60GH single delivered today makes $3,410 a month, Syke and facts, bleh

 Sorta like SLok and shilling ? Bleh indeed.

[Bicknellski]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

A 60GH single delivered today makes $3,410 a month, Syke and facts, bleh

 Sorta like SLok and shilling ? Bleh indeed.

Let us highlight the important FACT that is missing in that assumption... D E L I V E R E D.

[DPoS]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

people still using the 'if you held on to year old btc' arguments??

I made long posts exposing this fallacy.  The fault is that people bet on BFL to deliver and they didn't, you can't go by the btc increase.  Anything you bought with btc at that time looks dumb in hindsight.  You could of spent 300 btc on weed and you would say.. omg how much smoke i would have if i waited a year... lol

When the USBees came out, btc was around $120..  it is kinda the complete opposite situation.  A device that can't really hash too well but you gained by spending your btc then instead of holding them..  still doesn't really make that a good purchase unless you just like having them... but then they changed the price so you lose that small positive that you had..  

so future telling is a waste, you have to make the decision on what you know at the time and hedge if you are unsure

[SLok]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

A 60GH single delivered today makes $3,410 a month, Syke and facts, bleh

 Sorta like SLok and shilling ? Bleh indeed.

All your gunpowder gone already, and nothing left but the shill mantra? Have a better calculation perhaps? How's your lawsuit going?

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single  delivered now will never break even.

A 60GH single delivered today makes $3,410 a month, Syke and facts, bleh

 Sorta like SLok and shilling ? Bleh indeed.

Let us highlight the important FACT that is missing in that assumption... D E L I V E R E D.

Read Syke's message were I was responding on, I've highlighted it in red to make it easy for you since you had Montessori and obviously missed a lot, like comprehensive reading.

[Syke]

A 60GH single delivered today makes $3,410 a month, Syke and facts, bleh

Mining hardware generates bitcoins. Not dollars. So it only makes sense to calculate ROI based on bitcoins. Bitcoins spent vs. bitcoins generated. Anything else is just to soothe your losses.

[Xian01]

How's your lawsuit going?

 I trust you can appreciate it's not proper to publicly discuss pending actions once lawyers have formally become involved, so you might as well stop with the futile baiting. I announced a while back that I would be going dark about specifics pertaining to my legal dispute with BFL.

 I'm afraid you're just going to have to keep wondering.

[k9quaint]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

people still using the 'if you held on to year old btc' arguments??

I made long posts exposing this fallacy.  The fault is that people bet on BFL to deliver and they didn't, you can't go by the btc increase.  Anything you bought with btc at that time looks dumb in hindsight.  You could of spent 300 btc on weed and you would say.. omg how much smoke i would have if i waited a year... lol

When the USBees came out, btc was around $120..  it is kinda the complete opposite situation.  A device that can't really hash too well but you gained by spending your btc then instead of holding them..  still doesn't really make that a good purchase unless you just like having them... but then they changed the price so you lose that small positive that you had..  

so future telling is a waste, you have to make the decision on what you know at the time and hedge if you are unsure

In this situation you are deciding between buying a variable return of BTC (ASIC mining equipment) or a fixed return of BTC (buying bitcoin from an exchange). In both cases, the only thing you will receive for your investment is BTC. So you can completely ignore exchange rates. If you take X amount of BTC and invest it in something that only produces BTC and receive less than X BTC back, it was a bad investment.

The USBees were never a good investment. They were priced in BTC and only produced BTC. At the original price of 2, it was highly unlikely that they would ever earn back that 2 BTC. BFL has been a bad investment for miners because no matter what the exchange rate is in the future, they would have been better off just buying/holding their BTC.

[amencon]

If for example you got your 60gh single upgrade right now... ROI in under a week.

Singles cost 200 btc back then and now generate 1 btc per day. ROI is already at 6 months assuming no difficulty increases. But as we all know, there's lots of increases on the way. A single delivered now will never break even.

people still using the 'if you held on to year old btc' arguments??

I made long posts exposing this fallacy.  The fault is that people bet on BFL to deliver and they didn't, you can't go by the btc increase.  Anything you bought with btc at that time looks dumb in hindsight.  You could of spent 300 btc on weed and you would say.. omg how much smoke i would have if i waited a year... lol

When the USBees came out, btc was around $120..  it is kinda the complete opposite situation.  A device that can't really hash too well but you gained by spending your btc then instead of holding them..  still doesn't really make that a good purchase unless you just like having them... but then they changed the price so you lose that small positive that you had..  

so future telling is a waste, you have to make the decision on what you know at the time and hedge if you are unsure

People ordered based on the promises of BFL.  Had BFL delivered when they said they would customers would not have lost money and opportunity like they have now.  BFL lied, customers cried, that's history not foretelling the future.  I do get your point though.  Also I agree with Syke that calculating ROI with a mining machine really only makes sense using BTC.  The way I see it is if you don't ROI on USD because BTC price dropped through the floor but you did ROI in BTC then the machine did make ROI but you ended up losing USD based on BTC conversion price speculation.

[SLok]

A 60GH single delivered today makes $3,410 a month, Syke and facts, bleh

Mining hardware generates bitcoins. Not dollars. So it only makes sense to calculate ROI based on bitcoins. Bitcoins spent vs. bitcoins generated. Anything else is just to soothe your losses.

If it would make 20 btc a day and the btc value in $ would have dropped to $0.20, you would still have a party I guess? Fact is my jalapeno paid back the $ spent on it in 10 days.

How's your lawsuit going?

 I trust you can appreciate it's not proper to publicly discuss pending actions once lawyers have formally become involved, so you might as well stop with the futile baiting. I announced a while back that I would be going dark about specifics pertaining to my legal dispute with BFL.

 I'm afraid you're just going to have to keep wondering.

So you don't have a better calculation, but sorry that I wasn't clearer and made you miss that I asked without really giving a f**k about your case.

[Xian01]

but sorry that I wasn't clearer and made you miss that I asked without really giving a f**k about your case.

 So you are effectively admitting that you are nothing more than a common troll and shill then ? Why ask then if you don't care ? I'm genuinely interested in what you are trying to accomplish here.

EDIT: Actually, it doesn't matter. Adding SLok to my ignore list.