[ANN][DGC] Digitalcoin | Multi-algo & Masternodes | Established 2013

[Tsquared]

If anything is changed within the DCG code it should be forked into POS, if that is possible? People like coins that grow, gain interest.

There's been some talk about making some changes. Merge mining, changing the algorithm, going to multi algorithms, POS, lowered block rewards, and other things. I'd love to hear some suggestions regarding if there should be changes, and if so, what changes would folks like to see.

TT

[Vlad2Vlad]

There's been some talk about making some changes. Merge mining, changing the algorithm, going to multi algorithms, POS, lowered block rewards, and other things. I'd love to hear some suggestions regarding if there should be changes, and if so, what changes would folks like to see.

TT

Inflation and dilution right now are way too high for Digi.  They should pull the trigger and do something NOW.

Don't get caught like this when the next boom comes in the next 1-2 months.  Be prepared. 

[samson]

There's been some talk about making some changes. Merge mining, changing the algorithm, going to multi algorithms, POS, lowered block rewards, and other things. I'd love to hear some suggestions regarding if there should be changes, and if so, what changes would folks like to see.

TT

Inflation and dilution right now are way too high for Digi.  They should pull the trigger and do something NOW.

Don't get caught like this when the next boom comes in the next 1-2 months.  Be prepared. 

I agree, the time for change is right now.

There are guys waiting to do the dev work.

Changing the block reward / block time is a small job from what I understand, any other changes are more complex but there's people willing to do it and they're ready to go right now.

All we need is a decision.

[disclaimer201]

More brainstorming:

Problem: We need more loyal miners who save DGC instead of selling it right away to the market and protect the network at the same time.
Unfortunately, it's a chicken or egg situation.

1. How how do we attract miners? Will decreasing the block reward attract more or fewer miners? Are there other ways to attract miners?

Some would argue that scarcity is a way to stabilize the price and make DGC more valuable, so it will be be more attractive to mine again. This, however, has NOT worked when the block reward was decreased once before. PoS is one way to attract miners as they earn interest. There are a few PoS coins that have kept their value far better than DGC (like PPC, NovaCoin, others), but I understand it's challenging to switch to PoS, and there may be other disadvantages, too.

2. How can we convince miners to save coins instead of selling under value/ for a lower and lower value via multipools?

Miners need to be able to spend the coins (virtual goods and services / real world products) and believe they will be worth more in the future/ will be harder to mine. DGC has a lot of the infrastructure for merchants in place but insufficient popularity.

Multipools are still a problem and DGC hasn't adopted KGW yet.

3. The multiple algos idea is interesting, but probably too difficult to implement on a short term basis.

4. Merge-mining sounds like the last option to me in order to save the network. Even a lot of loyal DGC supporters still haven't invested in scrypt Asic miners. This may still change in the next couple of weeks/months.

[Don007]

That are some good points to think about.

Introducing POS may be a solution to keep people from directly dumping their coins after they've mined them. About which disadvantages of POS are you talking about? I don't have any technologic knowledge about the codes of a coin, but is that going to cause problems?

The multiple algos idea is indeed interesting, but we won't be able to use Scrypt ASICs anymore to reinstate / save the network. And I think the GPU mining era almost has ended..

I'm sure some people over here really want DGC to survive. My Scrypt ASICs are still in production though, but somehow it should be profitable for anyone to mine DGC / save the network. I think very few people are willing to spend their hashpower on DGC when they can make a high-XX% more profit on other coins / multipools.  Hopefully anyone will atleast spend a bit of their hashrate on DGC.   

More brainstorming:

Problem: We need more loyal miners who save DGC instead of selling it right away to the market and protect the network at the same time.
Unfortunately, it's a chicken or egg situation.

1. How how do we attract miners? Will decreasing the block reward attract more or fewer miners? Are there other ways to attract miners?

Some would argue that scarcity is a way to stabilize the price and make DGC more valuable, so it will be be more attractive to mine again. This, however, has NOT worked when the block reward was decreased once before. PoS is one way to attract miners as they earn interest. There are a few PoS coins that have kept their value far better than DGC (like PPC, NovaCoin, others), but I understand it's challenging to switch to PoS, and there may be other disadvantages, too.

2. How can we convince miners to save coins instead of selling under value/ for a lower and lower value via multipools?

Miners need to be able to spend the coins (virtual goods and services / real world products) and believe they will be worth more in the future/ will be harder to mine. DGC has a lot of the infrastructure for merchants in place but insufficient popularity.

Multipools are still a problem and DGC hasn't adopted KGW yet.

3. The multiple algos idea is interesting, but probably too difficult to implement on a short term basis.

4. Merge-mining sounds like the last option to me in order to save the network. Even a lot of loyal DGC supporters still haven't invested in scrypt Asic miners. This may still change in the next couple of weeks/months.

[Vinje]

I'm not opposed to POS as such, but I'd rather it was a POS/POW model. 
Are there any successful pure POS models out there?  Seen MINT and ECC lately? Me either.
I do think that lowering the block reward is crap.  It didn't work out last time we did it. 
It will just make me mine other coins to buy more dgc.(like it did last time)
Eventually one of those other coins may steal me away.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I'm not opposed to POS as such, but I'd rather it was a POS/POW model. 
Are there any successful pure POS models out there?  Seen MINT and ECC lately? Me either.
I do think that lowering the block reward is crap.  It didn't work out last time we did it. 
It will just make me mine other coins to buy more dgc.(like it did last time)
Eventually one of those other coins may steal me away.

There are lots of coins using pure PoS right now.  Like NAUT, Dark and quite a few other alts which used an ultra short PoW phase.

[cryptmebro]

Block reward should be 8 with 45 second blocks and 70 percent per year is the magic number. Minimum age should be 3 days. It doesnt feel good having to wait 10+ days for a reward.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Block reward should be 8 with 45 second blocks and 70 percent per year is the magic number. Minimum age should be 3 days. It doesnt feel good having to wait 10+ days for a reward.

70% per year inflation?

In the real world that's called destructive hyper inflation which will destroy the underlying currency while making the rich richer.

Why bother cutting the subsidy if you're just gonna go to an even bigger elite favored subsidy?  That's Worse than the dollar.

10% is plenty inflation - but I'm a small holder so in the end it won't matter much to me.

Cheers!

[cryptmebro]

Block reward should be 8 with 45 second blocks and 70 percent per year is the magic number. Minimum age should be 3 days. It doesnt feel good having to wait 10+ days for a reward.

70% per year inflation?

In the real world that's called destructive hyper inflation which will destroy the underlying currency while making the rich richer.

Why bother cutting the subsidy if you're just gonna go to an even bigger elite favored subsidy?  That's Worse than the dollar.

10% is plenty inflation - but I'm a small holder so in the end it won't matter much to me.

Cheers!

Cryptos are different than real money.  Yes, 70 percent probably is extreme, for dgc.

[Freenhult]

I've been saying it and I'll keep saying it. If you want people to keep the coin off the exchanges, then find a way to spend the coin. Market outlets like stores are the solution. I'm just baffled at the discussion going here. If I go outside and find some gold rocks, and I give them to people and say they're valuable, then they're valuable. If I keep digging up more of the same rocks, and so can everyone else, their value goes down. If we find a way to spend the rocks to a 3rd party who can't dig up the rocks, then their value goes up. This is BASIC ECONOMICS and I don't know why we're ignoring principals here.

If ANY of you want the value to go up, get this coin listed on a real good store page. If we can't find a decision then I'm going to dump this coin and completely back-out with over 50,000 dgc. I can't support this idiocy anymore. I'm absolutely distraught that we can't see what the hell to do here. If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Cryptos are different than real money.  Yes, 70 percent probably is extreme, for dgc.

Absolutely false statement.  Cryptos are digital currencies and besides their lack of physicality and the fact the blockchain greatly empowers the state, cryptos are identical to real paper fiat.  They function by the same laws of finance, money and economics.

[disclaimer201]

I've been saying it and I'll keep saying it. If you want people to keep the coin off the exchanges, then find a way to spend the coin. Market outlets like stores are the solution. I'm just baffled at the discussion going here. If I go outside and find some gold rocks, and I give them to people and say they're valuable, then they're valuable. If I keep digging up more of the same rocks, and so can everyone else, their value goes down. If we find a way to spend the rocks to a 3rd party who can't dig up the rocks, then their value goes up. This is BASIC ECONOMICS and I don't know why we're ignoring principals here.

If ANY of you want the value to go up, get this coin listed on a real good store page. If we can't find a decision then I'm going to dump this coin and completely back-out with over 50,000 dgc. I can't support this idiocy anymore. I'm absolutely distraught that we can't see what the hell to do here. If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

Agreed. We need more services. Some of the other fundamentals could be changed though to make the coin more interesting to miners.

[Vinje]

QFMFT!

If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

[Tsquared]

I've been saying it and I'll keep saying it. If you want people to keep the coin off the exchanges, then find a way to spend the coin. Market outlets like stores are the solution. I'm just baffled at the discussion going here. If I go outside and find some gold rocks, and I give them to people and say they're valuable, then they're valuable. If I keep digging up more of the same rocks, and so can everyone else, their value goes down. If we find a way to spend the rocks to a 3rd party who can't dig up the rocks, then their value goes up. This is BASIC ECONOMICS and I don't know why we're ignoring principals here.

If ANY of you want the value to go up, get this coin listed on a real good store page. If we can't find a decision then I'm going to dump this coin and completely back-out with over 50,000 dgc. I can't support this idiocy anymore. I'm absolutely distraught that we can't see what the hell to do here. If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

I love your posts! You are absolutely right Freenhult. Creating an economy and/or integrating with existing economy, is the ultimate objective, and Digitalcoin is in an excellent position to do both. Realistically, for commercial use, and especially for larger scale commercial use, any coin must be secure and dependable. Rest assured that there are efforts in progress to both create new business and integrate with existing business, which is why much of this discussion started.

Say what you will about baritus, but he's done a good job with Digitalcoin. This doesn't mean that there is not room for adjustments and/or improvements. I think sometimes we worry too much about the speculative value that improvements might bring, and lose site of the longer term objectives, but other things are happening. Everyone is pretty tired of public share sales and hollow hype, so you may not hear much until things materialize. Stay tuned.

TT

[Vlad2Vlad]

If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

Thank God for simple math equations which tell you exactly what's needed to increase the value of a currency. 

Yes, even a crypto currency.

Here it is, free of charge [this time].

Currency Value = Transaction Volume/Velocity + 1/Supply

Look at that, it doesn't get easier than that.  And yes, you need to increase services which then increases the Transactions volume but look at the denominator where it says, supply;  AMAZING, if you decrease that number the value of the currency increases as soon as demand or tx volume increases.

Now which variable is the easiest and cheapest to control in that equation; getting everyone to use DGC or changing one line of code?  This is not a trick question. 

How about doing that now (lowering the denominator - the supply) since it's free to do and will have a massive impact later on?  I know, genius idea!

So while the devs work on increasing the transaction volume (mass adoption) why not ALSO kill the inflation/supply which, if ignored, will absolutely limit any real future upside potential this coin has.

Amazing eh, doing two things at once for optimal results?  haha!

You're welcome!

[kenel]

If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

Thank God for simple math equations which tell you exactly what's needed to increase the value of a currency. 

Yes, even a crypto currency.

Here it is, free of charge [this time].

Currency Value = Transaction Volume/Velocity + 1/Supply

Look at that, it doesn't get easier than that.  And yes, you need to increase services which then increases the Transactions volume but look at the denominator where it says, supply;  AMAZING, if you decrease that number the value of the currency increases as soon as demand or tx volume increases.

Now which variable is the easiest and cheapest to control in that equation; getting everyone to use DGC or changing one line of code?  This is not a trick question. 

How about doing that now (lowering the denominator - the supply) since it's free to do and will have a massive impact later on?  I know, genius idea!

So while the devs work on increasing the transaction volume (mass adoption) why not ALSO kill the inflation/supply which, if ignored, will absolutely limit any real future upside potential this coin has.

Amazing eh, doing two things at once for optimal results?  haha!

You're welcome!

Very good point. As well as many others I've seen expressed. I think what's kind of turning this whole conversation sour is the sarcasm from everyone. Lots of good points being made, but being taken the wrong way. Just a thought.

[r32godzilla]

If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

Thank God for simple math equations which tell you exactly what's needed to increase the value of a currency.  

Yes, even a crypto currency.

Here it is, free of charge [this time].

Currency Value = Transaction Volume/Velocity + 1/Supply

Look at that, it doesn't get easier than that.  And yes, you need to increase services which then increases the Transactions volume but look at the denominator where it says, supply;  AMAZING, if you decrease that number the value of the currency increases as soon as demand or tx volume increases.

Now which variable is the easiest and cheapest to control in that equation; getting everyone to use DGC or changing one line of code?  This is not a trick question.  

How about doing that now (lowering the denominator - the supply) since it's free to do and will have a massive impact later on?  I know, genius idea!

So while the devs work on increasing the transaction volume (mass adoption) why not ALSO kill the inflation/supply which, if ignored, will absolutely limit any real future upside potential this coin has.

Amazing eh, doing two things at once for optimal results?  haha!

You're welcome!

The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to agree with Vlad, maybe we just need to cut the DGC supply right back for a bit even if DGC lose some miners in the process. The community can still provide a solid part of the hashrate though Scrypt ASICS etc to main the blockchain. Otherwise the price will struggle to come back up which is what we need if we want to make DGC more attractive to the commerce sector. Stores are not going to touch us if DGC is worthless. Also its not like you can't make re-adjustments to the mintrate again anyway if need be.

DGC has been around long enough too to say any such action is a ponzi scheme because the current entry price is ridiculously cheap and alot of investors like myself who bought alot of DGC at much higher prices last year have already lost substantial amounts of money if we sold up now.

Vlad might have said some crazy stuff in the past but also can make some very good calls. I remember him calling BTC to $1000+ when it was around $100 or so and everyone laughed including me. How wrong we were lol.

[Vlad2Vlad]

And let's not forget I did an analysis on DGC where I said it would hit $1 within 12 months.  At the time it was trading at 1/10 of 1 penny.  It hit $.74 which isn't a dollar but it's still close.  I was called insane for that call.

Kill the inflation now before demand picks up and you'll see a much bigger rise in value later this year.  The price will pick up and all those miners will come back.

[Freenhult]

If you seriously think changing the generation rate is going to give the coin value, then you're delusional. You can't give value to something that's worthless to begin with, and it's worthless because you can't SPEND it.

Thank God for simple math equations which tell you exactly what's needed to increase the value of a currency.  

Yes, even a crypto currency.

Here it is, free of charge [this time].

Currency Value = Transaction Volume/Velocity + 1/Supply

Look at that, it doesn't get easier than that.  And yes, you need to increase services which then increases the Transactions volume but look at the denominator where it says, supply;  AMAZING, if you decrease that number the value of the currency increases as soon as demand or tx volume increases.

Now which variable is the easiest and cheapest to control in that equation; getting everyone to use DGC or changing one line of code?  This is not a trick question.  

How about doing that now (lowering the denominator - the supply) since it's free to do and will have a massive impact later on?  I know, genius idea!

So while the devs work on increasing the transaction volume (mass adoption) why not ALSO kill the inflation/supply which, if ignored, will absolutely limit any real future upside potential this coin has.

Amazing eh, doing two things at once for optimal results?  haha!

You're welcome!

The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to agree with Vlad, maybe we just need to cut the DGC supply right back for a bit even if DGC lose some miners in the process. The community can still provide a solid part of the hashrate though Scrypt ASICS etc to main the blockchain. Otherwise the price will struggle to come back up which is what we need if we want to make DGC more attractive to the commerce sector. Stores are not going to touch us if DGC is worthless. Also its not like you can't make re-adjustments to the mintrate again anyway if need be.

DGC has been around long enough too to say any such action is a ponzi scheme because the current entry price is ridiculously cheap and alot of investors like myself who bought alot of DGC at much higher prices last year have already lost substantial amounts of money if we sold up now.

Vlad might have said some crazy stuff in the past but also can make some very good calls. I remember him calling BTC to $1000+ when it was around $100 or so and everyone laughed including me. How wrong we were lol.

If you're trying to patronize me, then just stop responding. I could really care less, and nothing about economics is truly "simple".

I'm not disagreeing that supply is not an overall issue. What I'm disagreeing with is that supply is the fundamental issue that is driving the price down. I'm not going to argue any further about this because quite frankly its the same old thing from both of us. We're not going to convince each other than we're right, and its not productive in my mind to argue in front of everyone about which 2 schools of thought are more correct. The fact of the matter is that the supply argument is garbage if you have no outlet; and if you have too many coins its worthless to spend. I say we need to spend, Vlad says we need to cut. The only other thing I'll call out is that Vlad seriously called for a major cut on the coin production of Casinocoin and that went through. That coin has continued on the same pricing path that it had been on regardless of the generation rate cut. I do not see how reducing the generation rate is going to fix the problem that the coins are too abundant right now. If the idea is to fix it in the future, that's a great plan if the coin had some value currently so that it was worth something in the future as well. This doesn't just go for DGC here; this argument could be made for anything including Bitcoin if we wanted to sit around the table and debate stupid equations.

No business culture = No adoption = Gutter-trash

That's really the point I'm making here is that we have 0 businessmen leading us and right now we are guessing at what to do. If you want to save DGC or any of the cryptos that you like then find a real economist to analyses the problem. IF they think that supply is really the issue then chop it up and be done with it, but inaction is not helping anyone.