Bitcoin is being killed by governments and nobody seems to care!

[SEC agent]

So, make your case and if you can't find a politician who agrees with you, stand for election and see if you can get the votes.  I'm sure you will find persuading people to sure that the blind and aged stop getting Medicare an interesting experience.  I doubt you'll get many votes.

The logic here is simple.  Government is something the vast majority of people want.  All human institutions are a mess.  Democracy is a human institution so it too will be a mess.  But no better system has been found so you have to make the best of it.  

This guy gets it.

[bytemaster]

So, make your case and if you can't find a politician who agrees with you, stand for election and see if you can get the votes.  I'm sure you will find persuading people to sure that the blind and aged stop getting Medicare an interesting experience.  I doubt you'll get many votes.

The logic here is simple.  Government is something the vast majority of people want.  All human institutions are a mess.  Democracy is a human institution so it too will be a mess.  But no better system has been found so you have to make the best of it.  

This guy gets it.

No better system has been accepted or understood by the masses... saying it hasn't been found is a lie.   I suspect most people dislike the government and don't want it interfering in their life, but most people also are not imaginative enough to consider who life could be possible without the government and therefore assume a government is needed.   Thus lack of imagination causes people to fall back to primitive use of force so they can avoid dealing with a mans reason.  Thus force is easier than reason and is the lazy way.  Someone who relies on force is not confident enough in their own position to persuade via logic.

You want to see a better system.. the-iland.net documents it.

[Hawker]

...snip...

No better system has been accepted or understood by the masses... saying it hasn't been found is a lie.   I suspect most people dislike the government and don't want it interfering in their life,

...snip...

You don't need to "suspect" - you can go door to door at election time and ask. Come election day you will know for a fact whether most people do or do not support your position.

I suspect the problem is that you know the answer, you don't like the answer and are looking for a way to deprive people of the right to vote.

[bytemaster]

...snip...

No better system has been accepted or understood by the masses... saying it hasn't been found is a lie.   I suspect most people dislike the government and don't want it interfering in their life,

...snip...

You don't need to "suspect" - you can go door to door at election time and ask. Come election day you will know for a fact whether most people do or do not support your position.

I suspect the problem is that you know the answer, you don't like the answer and are looking for a way to deprive people of the right to vote.

"Deprive" implies force and I would never deny anyone the right to vote; however, I will never grant the outcome of a vote legitimacy.   If we were to vote on who gets to rape your wife, and then you object then by you logic I could claim you were trying to deny us our of our right to vote.

Vote all you want, but don't bind me to it!

[Hawker]

...snip...

No better system has been accepted or understood by the masses... saying it hasn't been found is a lie.   I suspect most people dislike the government and don't want it interfering in their life,

...snip...

You don't need to "suspect" - you can go door to door at election time and ask. Come election day you will know for a fact whether most people do or do not support your position.

I suspect the problem is that you know the answer, you don't like the answer and are looking for a way to deprive people of the right to vote.

"Deprive" implies force and I would never deny anyone the right to vote; however, I will never grant the outcome of a vote legitimacy.   If we were to vote on who gets to rape your wife, and then you object then by you logic I could claim you were trying to deny us our of our right to vote.

Vote all you want, but don't bind me to it!

Can you possibly use less emotive terms than "rape your wife?"  I'm old and have followed politics all my life and I don't ever recall an election on that subject.  Elections are generally about mundane things who picks up trash, how it gets disposed and how much is paid for it. 

It doesn't really matter if you regard elections as legitimate or not.  People want to have government; they want to have a right to vote on how things are done and you can either comply with their decisions or not.  Complying but saying "Its not legitimate" is fine.

[bytemaster]

If you consider mundane subjects such as killing millions of people in wars, subsidizing GMO crops, poising water with fluoride, debasing the currency, and raiding people producing fresh milk, legalizing torture to be any different than raping your wife... I would like to know how.  Your wife is one person and she doesn't die... millions are starving or being killed as a result of people voting and 'complying' with the result.

No, I will not comply I will ignore and evade and undermine the result of the vote when ever it is in my interest to do so.

 

[Hawker]

If you consider mundane subjects such as killing millions of people in wars, subsidizing GMO crops, poising water with fluoride, debasing the currency, and raiding people producing fresh milk, legalizing torture to be any different than raping your wife... I would like to know how.  Your wife is one person and she doesn't die... millions are starving or being killed as a result of people voting and 'complying' with the result.

No, I will not comply I will ignore and evade and undermine the result of the vote when ever it is in my interest to do so.

 

Oh the heartfelt emotions! 

Well I also ignore laws that go against my interests.  Everyone does.  That doesn't make you special.

[FinShaggy]

Working on Starting a Bitcoin town here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216139.0

[hak8or]

If you consider mundane subjects such as killing millions of people in wars, subsidizing GMO crops, poising water with fluoride, debasing the currency, and raiding people producing fresh milk, legalizing torture to be any different than raping your wife... I would like to know how.  Your wife is one person and she doesn't die... millions are starving or being killed as a result of people voting and 'complying' with the result.

No, I will not comply I will ignore and evade and undermine the result of the vote when ever it is in my interest to do so.

 

Huh? Fluoridation of your water supply is handled on a state level (assuming you are based in the USA), so if you disagree with it then feel free to talk to your local politicians for your state. And as said earlier, if you do not like all your politicians, feel free to run for a state position yourself. The only thing blocking you is if the majority of the states population agrees with you or not. There was a town that was mentioned on Arstechnica lately that was able to get rid of fluoridation of their water supply. Also, fluoridation has been proven time and time again to be very effective when in the water supply and done correctly, and in the USA it is done very well. Heck, it is even considered by some to be one of the best medical advancements of this century! Also, if you don't like it, feel free to get a water filter for ten bucks.

Subsidizing GMO crops is not a bad thing. It encourages further research for GMO's crops so the yield increases and therefore food would become cheaper, more accessible, and easier to grow. Though, how Monsanto handles GMO's is quite horrific, so I somewhat partially agree with your there.

Debasing the currency is a long and hard discussion. I don't want to get into that on a forum where this has been talked about over and over again, often times with misinformation on both sides.

Raiding people producing fresh milk, that I have no clue what you are talking about. Selling milk which you produce yourself is very illegal, as it should be without any sort of license.

You should know fully well that equating actions with a users wife getting raped is a very flawed and messed up way to get any argument across. Millions are not dying due to voting and complying with the result, I haven't got a faintest clue how you are getting that. People vote in for someone they wish to represent them, and those people who represent them handle how the government should handle and do things. If you do not like how they are doing things, either impeach them, vote for someone else the next time, get the public to show that they disagree with the recent action, or run yourself for office.

[CasinoBit]

More like the government is being killed by Bitcoin and noone seems to care

[FinShaggy]

More like the government is being killed by Bitcoin and noone seems to care

Ha, true.

[educatedwarrior]

If the exchanges followed all of the laws and regulations, then there wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.  

This is what happens when people believe that they are above the law.

Don't forget the deregulation of the Financial industry which bankers lobbied for starting with the Clinton Administration and through the Bush administration.   When they merged commercial and investment banking, nullifying the Glass-Steagall Act, that is when the subprime mortgages started.  Traditional mortgages used to be  backed by deposits; but the new subprime mortages were backed by leveraged financial instruments (CDOs  - Collateralized Debt Obligations).  Subprime mortages were much more profitable for banks than the traditional mortgages that is why they pushed them.

Then when the shit hit the fan in 2008, the profits were capitalized and the loss was socialized.  Taxpayers paying for the dumb mistakes the bankers made.  And we are still paying for them.   Who are the dumb asses - us or them?   My point is, this is what got us in the trouble in the first place

[SEC agent]

Don't forget the deregulation of the Financial industry which bankers lobbied for starting with the Clinton Administration and through the Bush administration.   When they merged commercial and investment banking, nullifying the Glass-Steagall Act, that is when the subprime mortgages started.  Traditional mortgages used to be  backed by deposits; but the new subprime mortages were backed by leveraged financial instruments.  Subprime mortages were much more profitable for banks than the traditional mortgages that is why they pushed them.

Then when the shit hit the fan in 2008, the profits were capitalized and the loss was socialized.  Taxpayers paying for the dumb mistakes the bankers made.  And we are still paying for them.   Who are the dumb asses - us or them?

The worst part is that very little has been done to solve the problem since the crash.  We desperately need to reregulate the financial industry so that this doesn't happen again, but I really dont see that happening, unfortunately.

[Chaoskampf]

check it. Is it just me or is this finally an implementable p2p exchange protocol?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0;all

[marcus_of_augustus]

check it. Is it just me or is this finally an implementable p2p exchange protocol?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0;all

It would be more correctly described as P2P price/trade discovery messaging mechanism married to a decentralised clearing/settlement system ... but basically, yes.

[Chaoskampf]

check it. Is it just me or is this finally an implementable p2p exchange protocol?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0;all

It would be more correctly described as P2P price/trade discovery messaging mechanism married to a decentralised clearing/settlement system ... but basically, yes.

I'm still researching the nitty gritty details, but this seems like it could be what we've been waiting/looking for. Currently reading up on SEPA.

[Viceroy]

good, when your done reading dumb it down for the rest of us.

[marcus_of_augustus]

good, when your done reading dumb it down for the rest of us.

... a P2P price/trade discovery messaging mechanism married to a decentralised clearing/settlement system ...

.... shall I link to a dictionary for words of more than 2-3 syllables or you can take it from here?

[Viceroy]

I was looking for details not repetition.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I was looking for details not repetition.

a detailed dumbed down summary?