Bitcoin is being killed by governments and nobody seems to care!

[canth]

If only Tosche Station accepted BTC in exchange for power converters... *ducks*

[1714848559]

1714848559

[bassclef]

That makes no sense. At all.

Ignoring the fact that you apparently think taxes are stealing (even though you are provided with education, fire dept, police and military protection, roads, social safety net, etc, etc with those taxes) 

The act is still theft, what is done with the loot afterwards does not change the act.

No, because the citizens of this country elect officials who support taxation to represent them, and in some local/state governments vote on taxes directly. 

The power is always in the peoples hands.

We didn't get to vote on the creation of the Federal Reserve, the same year income tax was imprelented. And you can't seriously say with a straight face the our government properly represents us.

[Elwar]

Again, if you don't like taxes, then you can run for office and try to get taxation repealed (which would be asinine, but it is your choice).

If I do not like theft I should ask the thieves to let me be one of them so that I can tell them to stop stealing?

Slavery was common in the US until 1886. It was accepted, and common.

According to you, the slaves should have just run for office and changed the law.

Or, people would eventually realize that slavery was bad and outlaw it.

That is all well and good for history, but if you are a slave you are stuck waiting for the uninformed masses to start acting morally.

So what do you do? You escape, you find the underground railroad, you do whatever you can do to be free in a society that thinks you should be a slave.


Bitcoin is our underground railroad. Those that still believe in slavery are working to shut it down. Under the guise of "creating laws and regulations to prevent criminals and terrorists from laundering money".

[Elwar]

Oh I see. You don't actually want anything to change, you just want to whine about how "oppressed" you are and pretend that there is nothing you can do about it (like a spoiled teenager).

The whole point of Bitcoin is change. Change you can certainly believe in this time around.

Anyone working toward its free, unadultered, use is working to free humanity from such oppression.

[TippingPoint]

There is no political solution...

Spirits in the Material World - The Police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k8ZW8wr68k

[DAN444]

2) Even though everyone complains about taxes, the majority agrees, because they want public streets, schools, healthcare...

2% yearly inflation (seigneuriage)  is considered normal. Inflation is a tax (It lowers your purchasing power and devalues your savings).
Inflation is created by a central bank printing a little bit more money than it should.
This excessive money should be used for public streets, schools, healthcare but apparently it is not.
So where is this money going?
Hint: Banks are getting larger, The gap between the wealthy and the poor is getting larger.

[SEC agent]

If I do not like theft I should ask the thieves to let me be one of them so that I can tell them to stop stealing?

It was never stealing in the first place.

Slavery was common in the US until 1886. It was accepted, and common.

Yes, which is why it was legal, it had the support of the general population.

According to you, the slaves should have just run for office and changed the law.

No the law got changed exactly the way I have been talking about; through political action of the citizens. People ran for office and/or voted people into office that supported their views. 

Or, people would eventually realize that slavery was bad and outlaw it.

That's generally how a society works.




The rest of what you wrote is appalling. Comparing yourself as a modern american (whom Id be willing to bet is white, male, and around 25-40 years old) to a slave in any way is disgusting, and a disservice to the poor people that had to suffer those atrocities.

[FinShaggy]

More people need to start giving coins away then

[bytemaster]

when will the p2p exchange be built?

The answer is easy. Never!

P2p exchanges are only possible if you exchange p2p currencies. Fiat is meant to be centralized as much as possible. That is, if you attempt to handle fiat in p2p way you'll break a dozen of laws and regulations in every country!

It is possible to exchange value backed by crypto-currencies but denominated in fiat at full face value + interest.  
The *key* is to back the fiat-iou with crypto-currency collateral.   If someone 'defaults' on the fiat-iou they end up losing 2x that value to the network.

I posted this idea in one of the child boards but it hasn't gotten enough visibility.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=213588.msg2238954#msg2238954

A quick summary is this:

1) all balances (fiat or otherwise) pay interest
2) all fiat balances are created by someone borrowing against a crypto-currency used as collateral.  
3) payments from the collateral are distributed to those who hold a balance in that fiat currency.
4) people borrow against their crypto-currency because they expect it to go up in value relative to fiat AND the crypto-currency also pays dividends from transaction fees.
5) once you have a fiat balance it can be traded as easily as a bitcoin balance.
6) fiat balances are always 100% redeemable at face value (excluding transaction fees) so long as the underlying crypto-currency maintains any amount of value.
7) the effective interest rate on fiat balances goes UP when the value of the crypto currency goes up.

Given my approach we can now eliminate the centralized exchange.  Allow individuals acting as 'local-bitcoin operators' or posting on craigslist to 'deposit' and 'withdraw' $USD or EUR from other individuals without having exchange risk but only a potential 'transaction fee'.    There would be more people wanting to deposit $USD because their $USD balances pay interest and with more people wanting to deposit that means more people wanting to withdraw which equals more opportunities for local exchanges.   People could use the system without ever owning an asset denominated in a crypto-currency to trade $USD among themselves, etc.

The problem with fiat isn't the fiat, but the laws.  The way you fix laws is to make breaking them so easy and hard to find and desirable to so many people that they effectively nullify the law.   Copyright is effectively nullified by mass law-breaking and that is enabled by the internet.  Sure some people get caught, but most do not.  There are so many people doing it because it is 'profitable' to them that attempts to shut it down will be fruitless.

[jdbtracker]

Oh I see. You don't actually want anything to change, you just want to whine about how "oppressed" you are and pretend that there is nothing you can do about it (like a spoiled teenager).

The whole point of Bitcoin is change. Change you can certainly believe in this time around.

Anyone working toward its free, unadultered, use is working to free humanity from such oppression.

I believe in Change! I believe in getting my satoshis back!

we will only live in a truly free society when the implements of our lives are not run by Bourgeoisie capitalist pigs, but by proletariat capitalist pigs!

The implement is software truly free software, open and indiscriminate of ones social leaning, ones nationality or race. Software whose very openness takes a strike at Tyranny by the few, due to it's very nature. Software you are free to use to implement the change you wish to follow in the world, let there be people to create the change and let us choose to follow them if we very well so choose!

We may not all choose as one but we may find the many across continents and nations that choose as we choose, we have a right to know our brothers and sisters of equal ideological leanings.

I vote with my bitcoins for a better tomorrow a tomorrow with p2p shuttle services, that are free of central control; of exchanges where people with a over abundance meet those who are in need not just of cash, but of food! and dignity! A world where software is written openly with truths that are self-evident and free to be followed or rejected by the individual who so chooses to receive those services by an entity that is truly... by the people for the people.

[Elwar]

It was never stealing in the first place.

When someone takes money away from someone else without their consent, that is stealing.

The rest of what you wrote is appalling. Comparing yourself as a modern american (whom Id be willing to bet is white, male, and around 25-40 years old) to a slave in any way is disgusting, and a disservice to the poor people that had to suffer those atrocities.

Slavery and the initiation of force against humans is disgusting.

People will look back at our current time in history with the same disgust.

Relying on theft for your goods and services because it is accepted is just plain lazy and immoral. Anyone who gave it just a bit of thought could figure out that it is not the only way.

[BTCLuke]

If I do not like theft I should ask the thieves to let me be one of them so that I can tell them to stop stealing?

Slavery was common in the US until 1886. It was accepted, and common.

According to you, the slaves should have just run for office and changed the law.

Or, people would eventually realize that slavery was bad and outlaw it.

That is all well and good for history, but if you are a slave you are stuck waiting for the uninformed masses to start acting morally.

So what do you do? You escape, you find the underground railroad, you do whatever you can do to be free in a society that thinks you should be a slave.


Bitcoin is our underground railroad. Those that still believe in slavery are working to shut it down. Under the guise of "creating laws and regulations to prevent criminals and terrorists from laundering money".

-Quoted for Awesomeness.

Elwar will you be my valentine?

...You gotta stop feeding the troll first tho... This one is waaaaaaaaaaay too far gone.  Look at his avatar!

[TippingPoint]

That was an awesome post.

[papaminer]

Why the hell would you go for a Russian exchange

Because it is second largest to MtGox.

sick avatar! I thought it was real lol

[SEC agent]

It was never stealing in the first place.

When someone takes money away from someone else without their consent, that is stealing.

The rest of what you wrote is appalling. Comparing yourself as a modern american (whom Id be willing to bet is white, male, and around 25-40 years old) to a slave in any way is disgusting, and a disservice to the poor people that had to suffer those atrocities.

Slavery and the initiation of force against humans is disgusting.

People will look back at our current time in history with the same disgust.

Relying on theft for your goods and services because it is accepted is just plain lazy and immoral. Anyone who gave it just a bit of thought could figure out that it is not the only way.

Yeah, you have it real bad in  the US because you actually have pay for the services you use on a daily basis.   Its not bad enough for you to take political action or leave apparently, just bad enough to act like a pariah and compare yourself to a slave.

I'd love to see you live under an actual oppressive regime, I doubt you'd last a week in a place North Korea. You live in the richest and most powerful country in the world, are likely of a privlidged class (white, male, and/or middle class or above), and have enough disposable income to throw some away on Internet play money.....and you are complaining about being oppressed?

Give me a break.

[Elwar]

Yeah, you have it real bad in  the US because you actually have pay for the services you use on a daily basis.   Its not bad enough for you to take political action or leave apparently, just bad enough to act like a pariah and compare yourself to a slave.

I am just stating a fact. Theft is theft. It is understandable if you are ok with stealing to pay for "society", you are in good company with most Americans.

Political action? You mean like when I ran for Congress or was a state delegate in Texas?

Leave? Done. It is 8:30AM right now where I live (time to go get some breakfast).

I'd love to see you live under an actual oppressive regime, I doubt you'd last a week in North Korea.

And how do oppressive regimes oppress? Through the initiation of force. Same offense, different scale. If you lived in North Korea you would be raving about all of the wonderful things that great leader gives his citizens while ignoring the theft.

[ISAWHIM]

Governments are shooting themselves in the foot when they clamp down on bitcoin exchanges.

Not if the volume of transactions are thieves and other non-tax-paying launders...

They are increasing value, instead of letting THOSE guys RAPE our dollars, giving US bitcoins that would later be DEVALUED.

Funny, the more regulation I see, the more value I see in bitcoins. Knowing that thieves can't just dump-out $100,000 in one lump sum, which reduces value by nearly half to us... is a good thing that the charts reflect.

Good news is, the thieves are slowly leaving. Thus, the volume is decreased, adding value to those honestly trying to earn MONEY from bitcoins, or honestly trying to BUY bitcoins for use. (And for those of us who mine also.)

If YOUR exchange refuses to "follow laws"... You might not want to be dealing with them. That is why THEY pulled support for LEGAL exchanges. Why would any legal exchange want to accept illegal operating transactions. They might as well be taking counterfeits and running pawn-shops themselves.

If enough HONEST people WANT that exchange... then it will come back. There are more honest users here now, and without that market, there is only trading among thieves and goons.

OMG they want people extracting more than $10,000 to declare a statement saying this was "earnings" or "a transfer of owned funds". Kill the connection! Kill the connection!

[marcus_of_augustus]

You are confusing honesty with legality.

[Elwar]

-Quoted for Awesomeness.

Elwar will you be my valentine?

...You gotta stop feeding the troll first tho... This one is waaaaaaaaaaay too far gone.  Look at his avatar!

I like the avatar I created for my alt account. It makes it more convincing right? I mean, if I did not set myself up so easily I would not be able to post such fun posts.

[BTCLuke]

I like the avatar I created for my alt account. It makes it more convincing right? I mean, if I did not set myself up so easily I would not be able to post such fun posts.