Bitcoin is being killed by governments and nobody seems to care!

[Elwar]

Those citizens who are unsatisfied with how they are being represented should vote for people who represent their interests better or run for office themselves.

Our government is, as Lincoln stated, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

Should. But they do not.

They vote for the guy they think can win during the primaries then vote for the lesser of two evils in the general election.

That's a problem of the people, not a problem of the system.  The government doesn't force people to vote that way, the people choose to vote that way themselves.

Well the system perpetuates it. Politicians take money so they can spread their message in a favorable way. You cannot blame politicians for taking money, the system allows it so the output will trend toward them chasing the money. You cannot blame the citizens who try to get as much out of the system because the system allows it and the output will trend toward them chasing the money and voting for politicians that will reward them. You cannot blame the lobbyists since they are rewarded for supplying money to the politicians who will use the power of the government to favor them. The system allows it.

The one step in there that can be blamed is the use of force against people to gain money and power (at the point of the gun under threat of being kidnapped and held prisoner). That is the problem with the system.

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[Loozik]

How exactly is civil and criminal law a "non-valid" concept? 

Because civil and criminal ''laws'' are not laws; just a few examples of contradictions:
- ''criminal law'' says it is illegal (i.e. morally wrong) to initiate force against anybody to steal, yet it creates exception: when you do not pay the protection fee, i.e. ''taxes'', the so called criminal law ''allows'' to steal property from you to pay it against your will; can you imagine a gravity law that says ''every object dropped from a 10th story falls into the ground with an exception of a child (because child might get hurt)
- ''criminal law'' says it is immoral to beat the shit out of other people unless attacked, yet ''allows'' the police (guys in blue costumes with sign ''police'' on their huts) to beat the shit out of you if you do not appear in court on time; can you imagine Archimedes law that says ''any object drowned in a bathtube displaces the amount of fluid equal to its weight, except for guys in blue costumes who will displace 1/3 of their weight''?

[SEC agent]

Because civil and criminal ''laws'' are not laws; just a few examples of contradictions:
- ''criminal law'' says it is illegal (i.e. morally wrong) to initiate force against anybody to steal, yet it creates exception: when you do not pay the protection fee, i.e. ''taxes'', the so called criminal law ''allows'' to steal property from you to pay it against your will; can you imagine a gravity law that says ''every object dropped from a 10th story falls into the ground with an exception of a child (because child might get hurt)
- ''criminal law'' says it is immoral to beat the shit out of other people unless attacked, yet ''allows'' the police (guys in blue costumes with sign ''police'' on their huts) to beat the shit out of you if you do not appear in court on time; can you imagine Archimedes law that says ''any object drowned in a bathtube displaces the amount of fluid equal to its weight, except for guys in blue costumes who will displace 1/3 of their weight''?

That makes no sense. At all.

Ignoring the fact that you apparently think taxes are stealing (even though you are provided with education, fire dept, police and military protection, roads, social safety net, etc, etc with those taxes) and the fact that you believe that police can legally beat you for no other reason than a failure to appear in court; the fact that a rule/regulation/law may be specific enough to provide exceptions to said rule, doesn't mean that the rule is invalid.

Besides that, as I stated before, laws represent the collective will of the people. When laws like the Jim Crow laws are no longer considered acceptable by the general public, they are removed.

[DoomDumas]

Using CaVirtex (Canada) as always been fast and easy !  Almost no delay, great customer service, good pricing.. I still very happy to use CaVirtex !

[Elwar]

That makes no sense. At all.

Ignoring the fact that you apparently think taxes are stealing (even though you are provided with education, fire dept, police and military protection, roads, social safety net, etc, etc with those taxes)  

The act is still theft, what is done with the loot afterwards does not change the act.

[SEC agent]

That makes no sense. At all.

Ignoring the fact that you apparently think taxes are stealing (even though you are provided with education, fire dept, police and military protection, roads, social safety net, etc, etc with those taxes)  

The act is still theft, what is done with the loot afterwards does not change the act.

No, because the citizens of this country elect officials who support taxation to represent them, and in some local/state governments vote on taxes directly.  

The power is always in the peoples hands.

[Elwar]

That makes no sense. At all.

Ignoring the fact that you apparently think taxes are stealing (even though you are provided with education, fire dept, police and military protection, roads, social safety net, etc, etc with those taxes)  

The act is still theft, what is done with the loot afterwards does not change the act.

No, because the citizens of this country elect officials who support taxation to represent them, and in some local/state governments vote on taxes directly.  

The power is always in the peoples hands.

Just because some people vote for theft does not make it any less theft.

[TippingPoint]

Look at the actions of elected officials.

They create a separate retirement system for themselves.
They exempt themselves from our socialized medical system.
They have armed guards.

The power is always in the peoples hands?

[Loozik]

Ignoring the fact that you apparently think taxes are stealing (even though you are provided with education, fire dept, police and military protection, roads, social safety net, etc, etc with those taxes) and the fact that you believe that police can legally beat you for no other reason than a failure to appear in court; the fact that a rule/regulation/law may be specific enough to provide exceptions to said rule, doesn't mean that the rule is invalid.

I am provided these ''services'' at the barrel of a gun. I am forced to pay (taxes) for them even if I nether need them nor want them. If I do not pay for these fantastic ''services'', I get a letter from IRS, if I ignore the letter, a get another one from a court. If I ignore this one, guys dressed in blue costumes will appear at my door. If I do not want to speak to them, they will break into my house. If I resist, they will beat the shit out of me and break my legs. Then I will be sent to jail. If I believed your BS to be free and want to go home, a prison guard will shot me dead.

Do you think it is moral to provide a service at the barrel of a gun?

Besides that, as I stated before, laws represent the collective will of the people. When laws like the Jim Crow laws are no longer considered acceptable by the general public, they are removed.

What you stated is irrelevant. I do not think your stating anything makes it true by the virtue of it being you who states anything. Laws do not represent the collective will of the people. Laws represent the observable and empirically (and to certain extend rationally) confirmed reality.

Your ''law'' is a misnomer. Collective will of the people has no power to stop a rock from falling down the hill, collective will of the people cannot make ''2+2=-5''. Finally, collective will of people has no power to magically make theft moral.

[justusranvier]

Why are people still talking to the troll?

[jdbtracker]

Using CaVirtex (Canada) as always been fast and easy !  Almost no delay, great customer service, good pricing.. I still very happy to use CaVirtex !

agreed, CaVirtex so far has been stringent with following the regulations, not likely to be shut down anytime soon, banks in Canada can't shut them down because they are openly complying with the regulations.

[SEC agent]

Look at the actions of elected officials.

They create a separate retirement system for themselves.
They exempt themselves from our socialized medical system.
They have armed guards.

The power is always in the peoples hands?

Yes. Because you have equal ability to participate in the government, and should you choose not to run yourself, you have the power to vote the politicians who support those things in and out of office.

[Loozik]

No, because the citizens of this country elect officials who support taxation to represent them, and in some local/state governments vote on taxes directly.

I used to read a lot. Did you know that in ancient Rome there were people called masters and slaves (the division was more complex - I want to keep it simple). A human called ''master'' could by virtue of ''law'' own another human called ''slave''.

Slaves were given certain rights, e.g. they could retain 10% of their income (90% must have been paid to the master). The master took care of his slaves. He provided services in exchange for 90%. He provided the slaves with:
- schools (if you were the master would you allow the slave to go to the school in which he might be taught how bad slavery is?)
- security
- medical care
- what not.

The slaves at that time could not choose their master. At their birth slaves became the property of a given master.

And you know what? In part of Europe I live in, cumulative taxes (income tax, VAT, luxury tax, social tax and others) account for about 83%.

Do you know what a factual difference between a slave in ancient Rome and a citizen is? A slave could not vote who his master would be. A citizen is given the right to change his master every 2 / 4 / 6 years (depending were you live in.

Citizen = slave. Citizenship = slavery. only the word to describe the facts is more sophisticated

Why do you call yourself a citizen. Are you a masochist?

The power is always in the peoples hands.

Hahahahaha. Do they have the power to choose not to have a master / state?

[jdbtracker]

I will agree to the fact that better systems can be built and everyone of us discussing this now is giving ideas to a fully formed system sooner or later to be created by us or others.

I love Democracy, but I think Direct Democracy would be better; Each and every one of us involved and having a say on the issues that are dear to our hearts.

that is Bitcoin for all of us, the Democratization of Money Directly to the people by the people.

by the way, have any of you checked out your local government site? nasa maybe, Cern? the information is open and government is actively trying to get closer to the people, we simply have to give them a chance, and yes you will get screwed sometimes, sometimes. I know from personal experience, but that just highlights the fact that I am not that good at law, or have enough money to hold out against them, but I can still read their transcripts through freedom of information on how they're going to give it to me: that is our current state of Democracy.

the governments will concede to us when we can see everything they do, it should be a law that all conversations by government employees be monitored and surveyed at all time and be open for the public to read online whenever they so damn please, but that is not happening any time soon
they are still human beings who value their privacy.

Everyone is thinking about the move, but what do we know of other governments? Somalia has no say on Bitcoin, neither does Mexico, Canada is embracing it as long as you pay your taxes and declare income from venture capital.

Many different Democracies with different ideals, you could say that they are all forks of the original idea of Democracy created in the Greek City States 5000 years ago, we sure have come a long way.

[SEC agent]

Ignoring the fact that you apparently think taxes are stealing (even though you are provided with education, fire dept, police and military protection, roads, social safety net, etc, etc with those taxes) and the fact that you believe that police can legally beat you for no other reason than a failure to appear in court; the fact that a rule/regulation/law may be specific enough to provide exceptions to said rule, doesn't mean that the rule is invalid.

I am provided these ''services'' at the barrel of a gun. I am forced to pay (taxes) for them even if I nether need them nor want them. If I do not pay for these fantastic ''services'', I get a letter from IRS, if I ignore the letter, a get another one from a court. If I ignore this one, guys dressed in blue costumes will appear at my door. If I do not want to speak to them, they will break into my house. If I resist, they will beat the shit out of me and break my legs. Then I will be sent to jail. If I believed your BS to be free and want to go home, a prison guard will shot me dead.

Do you think it is moral to provide a service at the barrel of a gun?

Besides that, as I stated before, laws represent the collective will of the people. When laws like the Jim Crow laws are no longer considered acceptable by the general public, they are removed.

What you stated is irrelevant. I do not think your stating anything makes it true by the virtue of it being you who states anything. Laws do not represent the collective will of the people. Laws represent the observable and empirically (and to certain extend rationally) confirmed reality.

Your ''law'' is a misnomer. Collective will of the people has no power to stop a rock from falling down the hill, collective will of the people cannot make ''2+2=-5''. Finally, collective will of people has no power to magically make theft moral.

Again, if you don't like taxes, then you can run for office and try to get taxation repealed (which would be asinine, but it is your choice). You can even start your own political party that runs on an anti taxation platform. Failing that, you can vote for politicians and judges that support your political view.

Stop pretending you are being oppressed. We have a government that allows you to participate as much or as little as you want. If you fail to act on your own political goals, then that is your fault, not the government's.

[jdbtracker]

No, because the citizens of this country elect officials who support taxation to represent them, and in some local/state governments vote on taxes directly.

I used to read a lot. Did you know that in ancient Rome there were people called masters and slaves (the division was more complex - I want to keep it simple). A human called ''master'' could by virtue of ''law'' own another human called ''slave''.

Slaves were given certain rights, e.g. they could retain 10% of their income (90% must have been paid to the master). The master took care of his slaves. He provided services in exchange for 90%. He provided the slaves with:
- schools (if you were the master would you allow the slave to go to the school in which he might be taught how bad slavery is?)
- security
- medical care
- what not.

The slaves at that time could not choose their master. At their birth slaves became the property of a given master.

And you know what? In part of Europe I live in, cumulative taxes (income tax, VAT, luxury tax, social tax and others) account for about 83%.

Do you know what a factual difference between a slave in ancient Rome and a citizen is? A slave could not vote who his master would be. A citizen is given the right to change his master every 2 / 4 / 6 years (depending were you live in.

Citizen = slave. Citizenship = slavery. only the word to describe the facts is more sophisticated

Why do you call yourself a citizen. Are you a masochist?

The power is always in the peoples hands.

Hahahahaha. Do they have the power to choose not to have a master / state?

This is actually true, here in Canada at birth I am a stewart of the state until I am 18 years old, I am under the care of her Majesty.

Same in the U.S. just that you don't have a Monarchy you belong to the state.

I could declare myself a non-citizen if I wanted but then all the rights and priviliges that government gives me would be out of my reach. I could smoke pot in public because I am a non-citizen a people of the land.  There is a law that the Natives here in Canada can proclaim that if they are born in Canada they are free of the laws and benefits of the aboriginal treaties, they are truly free and cannot be judged by a Canadian Court for being original inhabitants of the land.

[Loozik]

Again, if you don't like taxes, then you can run for office and try to get taxation repealed (which would be asinine, but it is your choice).

You mean, you suggest that I join the mafia to change the mafia into something good and virtuous? What have you smoked today?

[SEC agent]

Oh I see. You don't actually want anything to change, you just want to whine about how "oppressed" you are and pretend that there is nothing you can do about it (like a spoiled teenager).

[Loozik]

This is actually true, here in Canada at birth I am a stewart of the state until I am 18 years old, I am under the care of her Majesty.

Can anyone show facts and evidence linking you to Elizabeth Alexandra Mary - I guess this granny is referred as to majesty. For millenia and centuries people calling themselves kings and queens were able to deceive others that power to govern other people comes from god, and that they (kings and queens) represent the so called god on Earth. This trick is still working in Canada.

Same in the U.S. just that you don't have a Monarchy you belong to the state.

The american revolution destroyed the myth of power to govern comes from god, and was replaced with another myth of power to govern coming from the so called nation, elections, and what not.

I could declare myself a non-citizen if I wanted but then all the rights and priviliges that government gives me would be out of my reach. I could smoke pot in public because I am a non-citizen a people of the land.  There is a law that the Natives here in Canada can proclaim that if they are born in Canada they are free of the laws and benefits of the aboriginal treaties, they are truly free and cannot be judged by a Canadian Court for being original inhabitants of the land.

Here is something for you: go to call of shame and video first to get a taste of more lengthy materials
http://marcstevens.net/
 
You do not need to declare yourself  a non-citizen to smoke pot.

[Loozik]

Oh I see. You don't actually want anything to change, you just want to whine about how "oppressed" you are and pretend that there is nothing you can do about it (like a spoiled teenager).

What have you smoked today?