Bitcoin is being killed by governments and nobody seems to care!

[Jace]

Fiat currencies are not digital objects. They are real objects.

You are mistaken, sir. More than 99% of all dollars and euros in existence are merely numbers in some bank's computer. It doesn't get much more digital than that.

And unlike gold or bitcoins, they can even be generated in any desired amount, at literally the press of a button. How 'real' is that

Any attempt to "map" such objects into the digital world is explicitly forbidden if you are not labeled a money service business that needs respective license from the gatekeepers!

Who cares. Peer2peer exchange infrastructure is coming soon. It doesn't matter what is 'explicitly forbidden' by some government, or how they label you. Decentralized peer2peer communication is beyond control of authority.

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[becoin]

It doesn't get much more digital than that.

It does, my friend. It does. The decision of how many numbers should be created in some bank's computer is taken by some very real objects or rather subjects, not by some open source network protocol! And those real object/subjects will do whatever they can do to defend the privilege they have.

It doesn't matter what is 'explicitly forbidden' by some government

It is not "some" government. It is every government on this planet.

Face it! You can not legally create and operate p2p exchange for fiat currencies. Existing laws and regulations in every country are all targeted to prevent exactly this from happening.

[davidpbrown]

Each time Governments fudge up an economy; or topslices a county's wealth; each time they impose themselves on their populations, they only encourage people to look to alternatives.

Each time Governments try to fight cryptocurrencies, they help to encourage people to think about what money is relative to wealth.

The worse-best action Governments could take, is buying up Bitcoins with a mind to scare the market later but that would only make their position worse. Those who did sell their coins would very likely only then come back later and buy more coins, having taken some profit from that investment. Probably those Governments that are limited by legal frameworks, might not be able to waste taxpayers money buying into the market they don't like. Perhaps then in frustration - or in inspiration, they might create their own cryptocurrencies and compete.

The Governments have themselves in a quicksand of their own making - having shat on us for so long they are lacking a sound foundation; their lack of imaginative ways out, is only matched by creative solutions from alternatives like Bitcoin.

Some problems are too big for Governments to solve and the crises we face will likely only be resolved by society widely; it seems rather less likely the crises will ever be solved by that which caused them in the first place.

Big Government; Big Fail.


btw - I thought btc-e was Bulgarian ~ bulgarian trading exchange.

[MegaDaninski]

If government wanted to hurt Bitcoin, they could create some shadow organization that claims to be open-source virtual currency but is really just a shell for consuming bitcoins and undermining the faith in the system.

Hmmm, sounds a lot like Ripple. . .

[davidpbrown]

Ripple sounds like a wet fart.. I don't think anyone is fooled.

[becoin]

Ripple sounds like a wet fart.. I don't think anyone is fooled.

Ripple is a brilliant technical achievement as a p2p exchange, but has 2 big problems. One of them is the proprietary private currency XRP that is required to transact on the ripple network. The second one is the ripple gateway, which is unavoidable in every p2p concept, but has to effectively get banking license if respective gateway wants to operate legally.

[davidpbrown]

Well I've yet to see anyone describe Ripple as more than half an idea, based on the theory that *if* everyone held XRP, *then* it would be useful. It seems to be a suggestion of communication and information exchange through water that you don't have.

Also that's offtopic from the more interesting OP about Government's interaction with Bitcoin. Ripple as a topic seems to leak into too many threads.. that's it's other problem is too much empty hype. If something works, it doesn't need hype - it grows by word of mouth. Bitcoin works; it will succeed, whether Government helps or not.

[ArticMine]

Governments are the main reason that Bitcoin will become highly successful.

In order to kill Bitcoin governments only need to do one thing however: Make it possible for a money services business to register in one jurisdiction (say one state of the United States) and then by agreement between all the regulators worldwide make that one money services business registration valid worldwide.

My personal expereince is that I have only deposided fiat cash into one Bitcoin exchange namely Virtex.  Virtex requires that one be both a Canadian citizen and resident in Canada to do business there.  Now when when it comes to purchasing goods and services with Bitcoin it has always been with businesses that are not based or resident in Canada or with individulas that are not Canadian citizens or residents.

[TippingPoint]

Government is/will require detailed transaction info from exchanges.  Despite that, some users will prefer to trade with them.  That can still work.

For others, consider conducting Bitcoin transactions using incremental P2P, including face-to-face transactions.  Make government(s) less relevant.

Tips for local transactions
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137272.0;all

[bassclef]

Governments are shooting themselves in the foot when they clamp down on bitcoin exchanges.

They will only succeed in exacerbating the problem they attempt to eradicate.

Bitcoin was brought about by world banks acting irresponsibly. If they had not bailed out everybody and their cousin to the tune of billions upon billions of fiat taxpayer money, it's likely something like Bitcoin would not appear for years.

Good job, you greedy bastards.

[SEC agent]

If the exchanges followed all of the laws and regulations, then there wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.  

This is what happens when people believe that they are above the law.

[davidpbrown]

If the exchanges followed all of the laws and regulations, then there wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.  

This is what happens when people believe that they are above the law.

That is rather the line that the bully would take. Do what I say not as I do.

If the Banks and Governments would only do what is in the interests of the People, then there wouldn't be an issue.

What we see is a consequence of those in Government thinking they are above the law and that they can act without consequence.

[Gordonium]

Run for your life from any man who tells you that Bitcoin is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another – their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.

[SEC agent]

If the Banks and Governments would only do what is in the interests of the People, then there wouldn't be an issue.

The government is "the people" (or at least it is in the US). 

What we see is a consequence of those in Government thinking they are above the law and that they can act without consequence.

How is creating laws and regulations to prevent criminals and terrorists from laundering money acting "above the law" or "without consequence"? 

[Gordonium]

The government is "the people" (or at least it is in the US). 

No.

[SEC agent]

No.

No? The government isn't made up of US citizens who are elected by other US citizens to represent and serve them? 

Thats news to me.

[Jace]

No? The government isn't made up of US citizens who are elected by other US citizens to represent and serve them? 

Thats news to me.

No. The government is made up of US citizens who are elected by other US citizens to suposedly represent them, but actually serve Goldman Sachs.

[SEC agent]

Those citizens who are unsatisfied with how they are being represented should vote for people who represent their interests better or run for office themselves.

Our government is, as Lincoln stated, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

[Loozik]

How is creating laws and regulations to prevent criminals and terrorists from laundering money acting "above the law" or "without consequence"? 

How is creating laws possible? Laws are not being created, laws are being discovered. Laws are fundamental truths about the reality, e.g.:
- Archimedes' principle (a law) was discovered by Archimedes. This law states a certain fundamental truth, namely any floating object displaces its own weight of fluid.
- Law of universal gravitation by Newton,
- many more

For a concept to qualify to be called a law, this concept needs to be universally true. Let me give you an example: any object drowned in a bathtube displaces the amount of fluid equal to its weight:
(the below will give you some sense of being universal)
- whether in year 1900 or whether in year 2090
- whether on Earth or on Mars or on Jupiter
- whether you like it or not
- whether you consider it legal or not
- whether it will cause someone's death or will save a life

Let's see a statist's examples of law:
- one year law says smoking pot is okay, the next law gets you in jail for smoking pot - you see the so called ''law'' is not universal in time, therefore it is not a law - it is legal pseudo-science
- in one place of the Earth law says possessing gold is okay, in other place of the Earth having gold gets you in jail - you see the so called ''law'' is not universal in space, therefore it is not a law - it is legal pseudo-science
- etc

The so called ''laws'' are bullshits named / sold to you as ''laws'' so that you perceive them as scientific and true, and do not protest when put in jail for non-crimes.

Trust me, no-one ''creates laws''. There are only people who write bullshit on pieces of paper, call it laws and then extract every penny out of you, if you fail to comply with the bullshit written on these pieces of paper.

[Elwar]