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Author Topic: [ANN][TZC] TrezarCoin Super-Secure-PoW/PoS  (Read 130868 times)
MagicSmoker
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January 30, 2018, 12:21:05 AM
 #2461

Yes, that is a TZC PoS calculator that a member was kind enough to draft and share.
Since it's alpha/beta state though--and an unofficial volunteer contribution--it's a semi-finished tool...

For example, some of the field labels might not mean what you think they would.
If you play with the calc a bit though, it's pretty easy to figure out what's going on.
...

Sorry, but I have no idea how to translate the data given by the wallet into what that calculator requires to proceed. Also, I have yet to find stats on PoS difficulty (the difficulty for mining is no problem) without which the whole exercise is moot.

The way I see it, estimating the probability of receiving a stake should depend only on the following:

# of coins
age of each coin (or average age of all coins)
PoS difficulty

Where do inputs and # of coins per input and age of transaction come into play?

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Trivonus
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January 30, 2018, 12:51:58 AM
 #2462

Hello,

I am mining at https://pool.trezarcoin.com and have found various blocks but I haven't received the reward for the block finder.
Does anybody has received 100 coins after finding a block?

Thank you,
Marius

Is the pool.trezarcoin mining pool active currently? I am unable to connect using the suggested ports on the site. I have been mining bsod.pw, but I would to like to mine the main pool. I am simply unable to connect.

Example: ccminer -a neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://pool.trezarcoin.com:5566 -u TeaEdy43rft8RP9DxNLGWiE2nfHYBF3A5m -p c=TZC
statt
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January 30, 2018, 01:34:03 AM
 #2463

Hello,

I am mining at https://pool.trezarcoin.com and have found various blocks but I haven't received the reward for the block finder.
Does anybody has received 100 coins after finding a block?

Thank you,
Marius

Is the pool.trezarcoin mining pool active currently? I am unable to connect using the suggested ports on the site. I have been mining bsod.pw, but I would to like to mine the main pool. I am simply unable to connect.

Example: ccminer -a neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://pool.trezarcoin.com:5566 -u TeaEdy43rft8RP9DxNLGWiE2nfHYBF3A5m -p c=TZC

Please read the info on the pool main page carefully.
This is not a YIMP pool and you will have to create a login (and also workers iirc, once you get in your account).
And the command to your miner will accordingly be different.

The pool main-page should have instructions/examples but if not they are also mentioned in the guides on the TZC website.
Good luck and happy mining!
statt
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January 30, 2018, 01:43:05 AM
 #2464

Sorry, but I have no idea how to translate the data given by the wallet into what that calculator requires to proceed. Also, I have yet to find stats on PoS difficulty (the difficulty for mining is no problem) without which the whole exercise is moot.

The way I see it, estimating the probability of receiving a stake should depend only on the following:

# of coins
age of each coin (or average age of all coins)
PoS difficulty

Where do inputs and # of coins per input and age of transaction come into play?

The PoS difficulty can be found in several places.
1) In the header info/status of the block explorer.
2) With your local wallet, mouse-over the green check-mark in the bottom right--it will display PoW & PoS difficulties.
3) Within the wallet console, you can run several commands that will reveal info such as network difficulty. Type "help" for the command list and info.
4) There may also be a CLI parameter you can pass to the wallet to get this info, but of this I am less sure of this off the top of my head...

Inputs are the "containers" that hold "x" coins. A single address can have many inputs "within" it.
Please refer to the concept of inputs/outputs/addresses as it relates to blockchain--good info to brush up on.
The wallet evaluates each input as a separate "batch" of coins with a corresponding age.

Age for TZC PoS is explained in the whitepaper and in various supporting docs on the website, etc.
If you read up and still have questions, please feel free to come back and ask for clarification.

So generally speaking you are correct.
The # of coins you have (organized by input) is multiplied by the coin age.
This produces your coin weight.
Coin weight is loosely the PoS equivalent of hashrate in PoW mining.

That should hopefully get you started and pointed in the right direction--good luck!  Smiley
Trivonus
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January 30, 2018, 05:05:14 AM
 #2465


Please read the info on the pool main page carefully.
This is not a YIMP pool and you will have to create a login (and also workers iirc, once you get in your account).
And the command to your miner will accordingly be different.

The pool main-page should have instructions/examples but if not they are also mentioned in the guides on the TZC website.
Good luck and happy mining!

Thank you for the info I corrected the error on my end and the pool is running!
LycheeBit
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January 30, 2018, 12:27:44 PM
 #2466

Hi ! TrezarCoin is available on LycheeBit.
Happy mining Smiley

Mining TrezarCoin with neoscrypt algo :

  • Stratum  : lycheebit.com:4233
  • User     : YOUR_TZC_ADDRESS
  • Password : c=TZC

LycheeBit info :


Mining software :


Examples of command line :

  • Nvidia   : ccminer.exe -a neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://lycheebit.com:4233 -u TeqK64Po1Lcs47Vs8ULbgPcvDVP25qRKEH -p c=TZC
  • AMD      : sgminer.exe --algorithm neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://lycheebit.com:4233 -u TeqK64Po1Lcs47Vs8ULbgPcvDVP25qRKEH -p c=TZC

Peers list :

  • addnode=185.18.179.137:17298
  • addnode=88.88.41.101:17298
  • addnode=75.68.233.56:17298
  • addnode=205.134.235.130:17298
  • addnode=213.57.208.5:17298
  • addnode=46.63.35.129:17298
  • addnode=91.239.17.99:17298
  • addnode=71.193.81.83:17298
  • addnode=106.240.7.189:17298
  • addnode=119.18.34.165:17298
  • addnode=79.173.54.151:17298
  • addnode=5.185.73.189:17298
  • addnode=70.180.133.29:17298
  • addnode=91.105.19.252:17298
  • addnode=91.100.104.2:17298
  • addnode=159.89.39.95:17298

LycheeBit - Mining pool - https://www.lycheebit.com
MagicSmoker
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January 30, 2018, 01:01:30 PM
 #2467

The PoS difficulty can be found in several places.
1) In the header info/status of the block explorer.
2) With your local wallet, mouse-over the green check-mark in the bottom right--it will display PoW & PoS difficulties.
3) Within the wallet console, you can run several commands that will reveal info such as network difficulty. Type "help" for the command list and info.
4) There may also be a CLI parameter you can pass to the wallet to get this info, but of this I am less sure of this off the top of my head...

Inputs are the "containers" that hold "x" coins. A single address can have many inputs "within" it.
Please refer to the concept of inputs/outputs/addresses as it relates to blockchain--good info to brush up on.
The wallet evaluates each input as a separate "batch" of coins with a corresponding age.

Age for TZC PoS is explained in the whitepaper and in various supporting docs on the website, etc.
If you read up and still have questions, please feel free to come back and ask for clarification.

So generally speaking you are correct.
The # of coins you have (organized by input) is multiplied by the coin age.
This produces your coin weight.
Coin weight is loosely the PoS equivalent of hashrate in PoW mining.

That should hopefully get you started and pointed in the right direction--good luck!  Smiley

In other words, RTFM... Or in this case, the whitepaper.

But that's not quite what I am driving at here, rather, it's that what the aforementioned calculator asks for and what the wallet gives you appear to be different.

Surely you don't expect everyone who wishes to stake their TZC coins to have to read and understand the whitepaper first? That would be analogous to requiring every person who uses US dollars to first understand how the federal reserve works; while you could argue - and technically be right - that people /should/ understand the Fed, it's unrealistic to expect or demand it as a precondition for the use of their money.

So I guess what I am trying to emphasize here is that it should be easy for the average Joe who wants to use TZC as a general form of payment and storage of value to easily determine the interest rate, so to speak, from parking their coins in their wallet (ie - staking them).

I'm not asking you to explain it to me like I'm 5 - or even explain it all, really - but I am asking the wallet and/or coin devs to consider making the staking function of the wallet a bit more user-friendly.

ChekaZ
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January 30, 2018, 01:42:22 PM
 #2468

Hi ! TrezarCoin is available on LycheeBit.
Happy mining Smiley

Mining TrezarCoin with neoscrypt algo :

  • Stratum  : lycheebit.com:4233
  • User     : YOUR_TZC_ADDRESS
  • Password : c=TZC

LycheeBit info :


Mining software :


Examples of command line :

  • Nvidia   : ccminer.exe -a neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://lycheebit.com:4233 -u TeqK64Po1Lcs47Vs8ULbgPcvDVP25qRKEH -p c=TZC
  • AMD      : sgminer.exe --algorithm neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://lycheebit.com:4233 -u TeqK64Po1Lcs47Vs8ULbgPcvDVP25qRKEH -p c=TZC

Peers list :

  • addnode=185.18.179.137:17298
  • addnode=88.88.41.101:17298
  • addnode=75.68.233.56:17298
  • addnode=205.134.235.130:17298
  • addnode=213.57.208.5:17298
  • addnode=46.63.35.129:17298
  • addnode=91.239.17.99:17298
  • addnode=71.193.81.83:17298
  • addnode=106.240.7.189:17298
  • addnode=119.18.34.165:17298
  • addnode=79.173.54.151:17298
  • addnode=5.185.73.189:17298
  • addnode=70.180.133.29:17298
  • addnode=91.105.19.252:17298
  • addnode=91.100.104.2:17298
  • addnode=159.89.39.95:17298

Thanks a lot, added to website and mainpost.

Kindly regards,
ChekaZ

BTC: 1Ges1taJ69W7eEMbQLcmNGnUZenBkCnn45
FTC: 6sxjM96KMZ7t4AmDTUKDZdq82Nj931VQvY
statt
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January 30, 2018, 04:44:55 PM
 #2469

In other words, RTFM... Or in this case, the whitepaper.

But that's not quite what I am driving at here, rather, it's that what the aforementioned calculator asks for and what the wallet gives you appear to be different.

Surely you don't expect everyone who wishes to stake their TZC coins to have to read and understand the whitepaper first? That would be analogous to requiring every person who uses US dollars to first understand how the federal reserve works; while you could argue - and technically be right - that people /should/ understand the Fed, it's unrealistic to expect or demand it as a precondition for the use of their money.

So I guess what I am trying to emphasize here is that it should be easy for the average Joe who wants to use TZC as a general form of payment and storage of value to easily determine the interest rate, so to speak, from parking their coins in their wallet (ie - staking them).

I'm not asking you to explain it to me like I'm 5 - or even explain it all, really - but I am asking the wallet and/or coin devs to consider making the staking function of the wallet a bit more user-friendly.

I really did not intend to be dismissive... so I hope that is not how you took it.
[Hopefully you could tell that I a) took time and effort to try to carefully explain some things and b) did not intend to speak to a tech-only audience.]

What did you mean by the calculator and wallet "appear to be different"?
Maybe you meant the calculator fields are a bit confusing or seem mislabeled?
If so, I tried to indicate that in an earlier post:

Quote
Since it's alpha/beta state though--and an unofficial volunteer contribution--it's a semi-finished tool...

For example, some of the field labels might not mean what you think they would.
If you play with the calc a bit though, it's pretty easy to figure out what's going on.

Hopefully going forward, the original volunteer or someone else may decide to edit/update the tool.
But for now it is certainly an as-is volunteer contribution. Smiley

=====================================

It occurs to me that perhaps it's worth noting something about TZC's PoS. Many other Proof-of-Stake models use a fixed or target return rate. For example, they might shoot to provide a 5% annualized ROI to a holder. This method, while being easier to understand, creates some security and fairness concerns. For this reason, TZC's developers chose to implement what has been called 0% PoS. (To be honest, I would have preferred something like Variable PoS but I'm not a dev.  Smiley )

To put it very simply, that means that PoS works like mining does in PoW--i.e., your returns will vary based on the level of interest and participation of others. So for those that have been exposed to mining, perhaps it would make sense that there are multiple variables involved and it's not easy to give someone static and simple values for what they should expect to make or earn on a particular coin (over periods of time greater than a day or so). It is because of this complexity that third-party tools/sites like WhatToMine were eventually introduced. Perhaps if variable PoS becomes more widely known, similar tools will appear.

=====================================

The above is also a roundabout way of addressing the issue of whether a user should be required to understand something complex in order to use it--in your example, whether someone who uses US dollars needs to understand the Federal Reserve system.

I guess I would say, people who want to use TZC don't need to know anything about the PoS. Just as they would not need to know anything about all the intricacies of PoW/mining--how to select/purchase/build systems, how to troubleshoot myriad OS/driver/etc. issues, how to calculate expected profit with all the uncertainty, and so on. If someone wants to buy something with TZC, they would simply transact--no need to know those details. So to me, the comparison to using the US dollar holds?

On the other hand, if someone wanted to invest in TZC, that would be different. But prudent investors--for example investors of a company stock--are expected to understand a lot more about their investments and those companies than a simple user of the same company's product/service. So it seems appropriate to have at least a somewhat higher expected threshold of self-education and understanding?

At least those are my thoughts (and opinions).
Not sure if that helps--if not, please feel to clarify what you meant or ask further questions.  Grin
MagicSmoker
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January 30, 2018, 06:22:49 PM
 #2470

I really did not intend to be dismissive... so I hope that is not how you took it.
[Hopefully you could tell that I a) took time and effort to try to carefully explain some things and b) did not intend to speak to a tech-only audience.]

I didn't think you were being dismissive, but I do think you jumped to the (reasonable) conclusion that I was just another clueless and lazy noob. Consequently, what I was asking and what you answered were only somewhat related.  Grin

What did you mean by the calculator and wallet "appear to be different"?
Maybe you meant the calculator fields are a bit confusing or seem mislabeled?
If so, I tried to indicate that in an earlier post:

More less; more specifically, that the data input fields on the calculator do not match the data output fields of the wallet:

1. PoS difficulty should be given in the "triangle" tool tip, not in the green check mark. I did not hover the mouse over the green check mark because I just assumed it was only telling me it was connected to the network and synced to the blockchain.
2. "Number of Coins per Input" in the calculator is not given by the wallet.
3. "Number of Inputs" is given in both.
4. "Age of Transaction" in the calculator is a single field; the same data in the wallet are presented as min, avg and max (with no contextual definition of those words - ie, one would have to know that min age is 1 day and max age is 16 days; presumably, then, avg is 8.5 days).
5.  Finally, the wallet gives coin weight in days while no corresponding field is found in the calculator.

Absent a full understanding of the whitepaper, then, it is not possible to be sure if the output of the calculator is even realistic, much less correct (insofar as a probability estimate can be correct...) so playing around with the numbers and fields on the calculator is unlikely to prove enlightening.

I guess I would say, people who want to use TZC don't need to know anything about the PoS. Just as they would not need to know anything about all the intricacies of PoW/mining--how to select/purchase/build systems, how to troubleshoot myriad OS/driver/etc. issues, how to calculate expected profit with all the uncertainty, and so on. If someone wants to buy something with TZC, they would simply transact--no need to know those details. So to me, the comparison to using the US dollar holds?

On the other hand, if someone wanted to invest in TZC, that would be different. But prudent investors--for example investors of a company stock--are expected to understand a lot more about their investments and those companies than a simple user of the same company's product/service. So it seems appropriate to have at least a somewhat higher expected threshold of self-education and understanding?

Yes, you walked down the path I intended you to (cue the Admiral Ackbar quote now)... There is a use case in my analogy that falls between that of the casual user of money and the investor in securities/derivatives/currencies/whatever: the person "investing" money in a savings account or CD. This type of investment requires minimal knowledge and minimal oversight* and seems to me the closest analog to staking coins for a chance at receiving a block every so often. Hence why I am pressing for a clear and simple explanation of how to figure out the equivalent of an interest rate that one is likely to receive from x number of coins, of y days maturity, held over z period of time.


* - aside from a few months in 2009 and a few years in the early 1930s, anyway...
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January 30, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
 #2471

I didn't think you were being dismissive, but I do think you jumped to the (reasonable) conclusion that I was just another clueless and lazy noob. Consequently, what I was asking and what you answered were only somewhat related.  Grin

Ok, glad to hear that.
Certainly didn't intend any offense, etc.  Smiley

Quote from: MagicSmoker
More less; more specifically, that the data input fields on the calculator do not match the data output fields of the wallet:

Your points about those areas of confusion are well-taken.
Such were the limits of a volunteer-created tool.
If this were an "official" tool released by the devs, I think we could have higher expectations...

As for your notes on the wallet interface itself, I kind of agree. I would like to see some of those ironed out.
But the team is pushing really hard on the core updates, so not sure how receptive they will be to more cosmetic issues until a bit later.
Fwiw, I think that after the next release, we might have an opportunity to submit some of those kinds of ideas/suggestions--so keep a list!

Quote from: MagicSmoker
Absent a full understanding of the whitepaper, then, it is not possible to be sure if the output of the calculator is even realistic, much less correct (insofar as a probability estimate can be correct...) so playing around with the numbers and fields on the calculator is unlikely to prove enlightening.

I'm hardly the brightest bulb in the bunch, but I thought I found the method-to-the-madness with the calc after a few minutes?
But yes, not the ideal situation. Again, an artefact of it being non-official, etc....  Sad

Quote from: MagicSmoker
There is a use case in my analogy that falls between that of the casual user of money and the investor in securities/derivatives/currencies/whatever: the person "investing" money in a savings account or CD. This type of investment requires minimal knowledge and minimal oversight* and seems to me the closest analog to staking coins for a chance at receiving a block every so often. Hence why I am pressing for a clear and simple explanation of how to figure out the equivalent of an interest rate that one is likely to receive from x number of coins, of y days maturity, held over z period of time.

* - aside from a few months in 2009 and a few years in the early 1930s, anyway...

The investments examples you mention typically have up-front and fixed terms for the APR, etc. So these would be much more analogous to the other kinds of PoS models I mentioned in the previous post--both are geared around a more steady/predictable annual rate-of-return. As explained, the TZC PoS model is truly variable depending on network factors and other conditions--like most PoW. So while you say that the savings/CD model is "the closest analog to staking coins", I would argue that its the other PoS model--i.e., x% PoS--you would need to compare to in order to make that claim.

That's my take on what (I think) you are saying.
But perhaps I misunderstood--feel free to clarify.  Smiley
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January 30, 2018, 11:15:17 PM
 #2472

hello i need some help plz have coin in my wallet more then 24H and i made the conf and pos mining not working yet how do i know i do all ok and its will going to work ?
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January 30, 2018, 11:46:45 PM
 #2473

...
The investments examples you mention typically have up-front and fixed terms for the APR, etc. So these would be much more analogous to the other kinds of PoS models I mentioned in the previous post--both are geared around a more steady/predictable annual rate-of-return. As explained, the TZC PoS model is truly variable depending on network factors and other conditions--like most PoW. So while you say that the savings/CD model is "the closest analog to staking coins", I would argue that its the other PoS model--i.e., x% PoS--you would need to compare to in order to make that claim.

That's my take on what (I think) you are saying.
But perhaps I misunderstood--feel free to clarify.  Smiley

Hmm, I think I see your point of view now. Guess the trap was sprung on me!

I was going to argue that the wallet itself should provide an estimate of the time it would take to receive a block reward from staking because it has all of the necessary data points to do the calculation, but I can see how it would be self-defeating if that number wildly changed as a result of receiving/sending TZC - ie, using this as an everyday payment method. However, I do think a web-based calculator, officially provided by the dev team, should be a priority as staking is a primary function/feature of TZC. In fact, one of the main reasons I am mining it right now is to have a decent number on hand for staking (because, let's face it, there isn't much ability to actually use cryptos for everyday transactions just yet).

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January 31, 2018, 12:46:30 AM
 #2474

hello i need some help plz have coin in my wallet more then 24H and i made the conf and pos mining not working yet how do i know i do all ok and its will going to work ?

The penrose triangle (bottom right status area) being orange is the important part... and if you mouse-over if it says "Staking enabled...".
If so, then you are staking.  Smiley

If you need more help, feel free to stop by the Slack or Discord--it will be faster.
Good luck!
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January 31, 2018, 12:58:36 AM
 #2475

Hmm, I think I see your point of view now. Guess the trap was sprung on me!

Haha, not my intention--but perhaps.  Smiley

Quote from: MagicSmoker
I do think a web-based calculator, officially provided by the dev team, should be a priority as staking is a primary function/feature of TZC. In fact, one of the main reasons I am mining it right now is to have a decent number on hand for staking (because, let's face it, there isn't much ability to actually use cryptos for everyday transactions just yet).

Staking is certainly an appeal to many.
I like the idea of an official calculator as well but can't say for sure if it is something that would be:

  • A) Harder to perfect than it would initially appear, or
  • B) Desirable from the dev team's perspective.1

Anyway, I will try passing things along but you should as well.
There is a channel specifically for suggestions in the Discord, and there are opportunities for easier discussion/brainstorming with others in both the Slack & Discord.

1 For example, sometimes trying to create too much precision for something that is unavoidably imprecise can lead to more confusion/problems than benefit.
(Not saying that's the case here, just trying to remain open to all possibilities until I have more information.)
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January 31, 2018, 06:59:59 AM
 #2476

is there any amaut nedeed to get started?

irc=0
dns=1
qtstyle=2
daemon=1
server=1
listen=1
stakegen=1
logtimestamps=1
minersleep=2000
stakemindepth=1000
stakemintime=24
stakecombine=2000
stakesplit=4000
port=17298
rpcport=17299
rpcuser=user
rpcpassword=pass
addnode=162.217.249.198:17298
addnode=46.4.0.101:17298

this is my conf file is samthing not ok ?
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January 31, 2018, 07:08:36 AM
 #2477

I'm very interested, and I wait for more complete bounty information, hopefully running well Cheesy
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January 31, 2018, 04:30:26 PM
 #2478

is there any amaut nedeed to get started?
...
this is my conf file is samthing not ok ?

Seems ok at first glance--if you have trouble feel free to stop by Slack/Discord and ask.
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January 31, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
 #2479

Anyone got a project for Trezarcoin in his mind and want to get it funded?

PM me and get listed on: https://trezarcoin.com/trezarfundme

Kindly regards,
ChekaZ

BTC: 1Ges1taJ69W7eEMbQLcmNGnUZenBkCnn45
FTC: 6sxjM96KMZ7t4AmDTUKDZdq82Nj931VQvY
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February 01, 2018, 10:04:42 AM
 #2480

The price of TrezarCoin continues to decline, I do not intend to dig, so only to wait on the sidelines.
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