[BitFunder] Graet.Loan - Paying 0.05% interest daily

[tocoolforschool]

he has been sitting chatting on IRC for years. He is not busy trying to get your funds.
he also isn't reading this. do not kid yourselves.

you need to take up legal options and sue him. don't waste your time begging.

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[ru0chen]

I want to sue him , does anyone be with me?

[Bananery]

So he's chatting away with people while he should be working to get funds to repay the loan. I'm not surprized. The only way to repay anything would be selling everything and buying bitcoins before the exchange rate goes up again. But no matter what, he still thinks his FIAT business will repay the debt.

The only BTC business he has is ozcoin, but it is dying as we speak. It has 0.05% of network again and users are leaving the pool. Only 145 users are left now.

Graet says in his post he needs to rebuilt the pool to 5%, but I have no idea how he's going to do that. It's quite impossible at this point. And I'm not seeing anything being done to the pool to attract new miners.

I just hope he understands that no FIAT business can outperform BTC. It's probably too late to expect full redeems at this point because his all assets are simply not enough to buy enough bitcoins. It was already to late when the exchange rate jumped up last autumn.

According to my estimates he could repay at most 40-50% at this time if he sells everything and manages to buy at $450. Probably not going to happen, as he refuses to accept the reality.

[tolan77]

I want to sue him , does anyone be with me?

he has been sitting chatting on IRC for years. He is not busy trying to get your funds.
he also isn't reading this. do not kid yourselves.

you need to take up legal options and sue him. don't waste your time begging.

     I doubt many of us could individually sue him without paying our entire winnings in lawyer fees but we might be able to do something like the group that handled the Bakewell scenario did when he ran off. If people are interested I have made a google doc where we can pool the information and proof on what graet owes parties that would be interested in pursuing a legal option. If we get enough claimed shares we could send it to an Australian lawyer and get consulting on what our options are.

     If you'd like to be included in the google doc and look into legal action, send me a pm with a signed message containing  1.Your bitcointalk username 2. Your email 3. Amount of graet shares owned. Do this using the public bitfunder key connected to your bitfunder account (only 1 user doesn't have this and they only owns 10 shares) and I will add you to my google doc and share it with you. If you don't have the private key for your public bitfunder address I recommend trying your hardest to find it, cause in my opinion it's the only true way to prove ownership and for now the only proof I'll accept for my google doc.

     The last backup of the asset list of bitfunder I could find was here https://btct.co/history-bitfunder/2013-12-03-05%3A30-bitfunder-assetlist.html .
According to that there is ~80 of us that own graet bonds with ~30 of those owners owning >= 1000 bonds each (or 10 bitcoin's worth). I'm sure one of those large owners is Graet himself but still the threat of a class action lawsuit from the rest of those large holders could be a little frightening and might encourage Graet to at least become a little bit more responsive on how he plans to make this right. I and several others have been more than patient and I'm almost done being patient.

According to my estimates he could repay at most 40-50% at this time if he sells everything and manages to buy at $450. Probably not going to happen, as he refuses to accept the reality.

Only way to get him to do that would be through the courts. I'd prefer him not have to do that if he has the bitcoins to pay what he owes but would prefer some of my bitcoins back as opposed to none if that's what it comes down to.

[Bananery]

According to my estimates he could repay at most 40-50% at this time if he sells everything and manages to buy at $450. Probably not going to happen, as he refuses to accept the reality.

Only way to get him to do that would be through the courts. I'd prefer him not have to do that if he has the bitcoins to pay what he owes but would prefer some of my bitcoins back as opposed to none if that's what it comes down to.

Did you read my messages? When I say the only way for him to pay back anything is to sell all of his assets and buy bitcoins, I mean he doesn't have much bitcoins. If you prefer him not selling his assets, you don't want to be paid.

The longer he takes to convert his assets, that are not bitcoin if you still don't get it, to bitcoins, the less creditors get back DUE TO INCREASING BITCOIN EXCHANGE RATE.

He doesn't have bitcoins, but he has some assets. If he wants to pay, he must sell assets and buy bitcoins, so that he can pay back a part of his debt. My estimate is if he sells everything, he might repay at most 50%.

[tolan77]

According to my estimates he could repay at most 40-50% at this time if he sells everything and manages to buy at $450. Probably not going to happen, as he refuses to accept the reality.

Only way to get him to do that would be through the courts. I'd prefer him not have to do that if he has the bitcoins to pay what he owes but would prefer some of my bitcoins back as opposed to none if that's what it comes down to.

Did you read my messages? When I say the only way for him to pay back anything is to sell all of his assets and buy bitcoins, I mean he doesn't have much bitcoins. If you prefer him not selling his assets, you don't want to be paid.

The longer he takes to convert his assets, that are not bitcoin if you still don't get it, to bitcoins, the less creditors get back DUE TO INCREASING BITCOIN EXCHANGE RATE.

He doesn't have bitcoins, but he has some assets. If he wants to pay, he must sell assets and buy bitcoins, so that he can pay back a part of his debt. My estimate is if he sells everything, he might repay at most 50%.

I said 'prefer' and 'if but I admit I worded it terribly. What I meant was, I would prefer him to just pay what he owes in bitcoins however he can without us having to MAKE him sell everything. If that's what we have to do though I am more than willing to do so through legal action to recoup even just partially what he owes me.

[wang_yan]

I thought Great said he's gonna repay the loan in the middle of 2014?

[Bananery]

I thought Great said he's gonna repay the loan in the middle of 2014?

He said bulk of the loan, not the whole loan. I don't know what he really means by the bulk, it's probably more than half.

Another thing he said is that litigation will force him into bankruptcy. By saying that he admits he can't repay much. His promises could be just wishful thinking and hopes he can somehow rebuild his ozcoin pool. That is not happening.

He might have some other secret investments that he's not mentioning, but I don't think it's enough to repay all the debt even if he has something. Let's hope I'm wrong.

[ru0chen]

I want to sue him , does anyone be with me?

he has been sitting chatting on IRC for years. He is not busy trying to get your funds.
he also isn't reading this. do not kid yourselves.

you need to take up legal options and sue him. don't waste your time begging.

     I doubt many of us could individually sue him without paying our entire winnings in lawyer fees but we might be able to do something like the group that handled the Bakewell scenario did when he ran off. If people are interested I have made a google doc where we can pool the information and proof on what graet owes parties that would be interested in pursuing a legal option. If we get enough claimed shares we could send it to an Australian lawyer and get consulting on what our options are.

According to my estimates he could repay at most 40-50% at this time if he sells everything and manages to buy at $450. Probably not going to happen, as he refuses to accept the reality.

Only way to get him to do that would be through the courts. I'd prefer him not have to do that if he has the bitcoins to pay what he owes but would prefer some of my bitcoins back as opposed to none if that's what it comes down to.

Thank you! I have PM you my message and I want to join the group that pursuing a legal option

[thy]

Dear graet.loan holders,
Firstly I would like to apologise for my lack of communication - I have found this to be a very trying time.

Despite the ongoing FUD campaign I have not "run off", do not have health issues and have not "cashed out all the BTC", I am still working toward the goal of having most of graet.loan paid off by mid 2014 including any owed interest.

graet.loan was started to consolidate loans from community members after Ozcoin was hacked, give an easy management platform and provide some liquidity for my Bitcoin businesses. This was working well until changes at BitFunder were announced 2 hours after I left for a family holiday (my wifes first holiday in 5 years) by the time I got home 5 days later my portfolio had lost over 500BTC value and I had a list of redeem requests.

Current situation:
Ozcoin Bitcoin Pool has gone from over 10% of the network to under 0.05% over the last few months due to various and ongoing attacks that have disrupted operation and scared off miners - we need to build it back to at least 5% of the network.
Invested in a startup before Bitfunder issues, currently finishing legals moving to beta after New Year.
CrownCloud continues to bring a growing profit every month, planning to expand operations after New Year.
violence will not get coins,
litigation forcing me into bankruptcy will result in a minimal return for unsecured investors,
being patient and allowing me to continue and grow my Bitcoin businesses while still aiming to return the bulk of great.loan by mid 2014 will give investors the best return.

Best Wishes
Graet

Graet can we have some updates to what happens here on this graet.loan, its around 5 months since you said anything in this thread now. When will you honor the redeemed requests, what progress have you been doing during the last 5 months and explain why you havent, if so only for a few single days to show your good intentions payed dividend after Bitfuner was closed down ?

[BitHub]

LOL @ thinking he's going to reply, reads this thread, ever going to pay it back.

[ru0chen]

graet: give back my money!

[Justin00]

mate he s on IRC
irc.freenode.org

/join #bitcoin-aus

graet: give back my money!

[fluffypony]

mate he s on IRC
irc.freenode.org

/join #bitcoin-aus

graet: give back my money!

And on #bitcoin-otc and on #bitcoin-assets

[13:15:10] Graet signed on at 05 June 2014 at 10:01:43 AM SAST and has been idle for 30 minutes, 53 seconds

[ortsi]

Hi,

I would like to join a lawsuit for Graet.Loan, if there is one, assuming a reasonable cost. I lost more than 10 BTC. Please contact me here or via PM.

Thanks!

[thy]

LOL @ thinking he's going to reply, reads this thread, ever going to pay it back.

Theres no reason why he shouldent show the lenders some respect and comunicate with them regularly about what he has done, now does and how the curret situation is, as he keeps logging in every week on bitcointalk.

[Hippie Tech]

10 BTC is chump's change when compared to the pool's DGM surplus.

Or how about the 800-900 BTC theft/ "hack" ?

[ru0chen]

Hi,

I would like to join a lawsuit for Graet.Loan, if there is one, assuming a reasonable cost. I lost more than 183 BTC. Please contact me here or via PM.

Thanks!

[Justin00]

Real shame.
me and many many others did heaps of trades with Graet.

He's the only 'scammer' I feel abit sorry for.. Fellow got mixed up with the wrong crowd shall we say. Never the less, he does owe all that $$.

[julz]

Without prejudice,

I believe I am the largest creditor in relation to the Graet.Loan.
I am located in Australia, and have been in preliminary discussions with a Sydney law firm regarding this. (One that is familiar with Bitcoin and has done work related to the Australian Bitcoin industry)

As Graeme Tee indicated his intentions to pay the bulk of the loan off some time in mid 2014 - I haven't yet sent him any direct communications regarding a demand for payment of either interest or principal.

Given that it is now July, and he hasn't made any recent public statements - I will likely send a letter of demand soon.

That said - I'm not hopeful that Graeme's businesses are in a position for him to put a meaningful dent in his liabilities at the moment.

If Graeme will communicate, I may even delay legal action a little further. I am also amenable to renegotiating the interest rate to a *lower* amount. (Though I speak only for myself in this)
I believe the change in the Bitcoin mining landscape was one critical factor in reducing his ability to pay back this loan, and this caught many of us off-guard - so I think it's reasonable to reassess the interest rate.

Graeme, Please communicate and negotiate with us.