[TAT.VIRTUALMINE]

[COINPRADER]

why are people trying to ditch shares sub ipo righ now ? i dont know why people would do that unless its the dot com crash in the 90s

This is normal. In general, if the difficulty goes up, the dividends will be lower and the shares will be worth less. The price is falling because the difficulty is rising.

it is true the shares will be worth less as dividends are reduced over time. but dividends have been the same all week, so i dont think it applies to the recent dip.

As I understand it - divs will be constant until the next difficulty change (mid-next week I believe).  Then, they should be constant until the next difficulty change (2 weeks later)

[boyohi]

why are people trying to ditch shares sub ipo righ now ? i dont know why people would do that unless its the dot com crash in the 90s

This is normal. In general, if the difficulty goes up, the dividends will be lower and the shares will be worth less. The price is falling because the difficulty is rising.

it is true the shares will be worth less as dividends are reduced over time. but dividends have been the same all week, so i dont think it applies to the recent dip.

As I understand it - divs will be constant until the next difficulty change (mid-next week I believe).  Then, they should be constant until the next difficulty change (2 weeks later)

Yes and even with the difficulty increase virtualmine will pay more dividends/btc then asicminer

[twentyseventy]

why are people trying to ditch shares sub ipo righ now ? i dont know why people would do that unless its the dot com crash in the 90s

This is normal. In general, if the difficulty goes up, the dividends will be lower and the shares will be worth less. The price is falling because the difficulty is rising.

it is true the shares will be worth less as dividends are reduced over time. but dividends have been the same all week, so i dont think it applies to the recent dip.

As I understand it - divs will be constant until the next difficulty change (mid-next week I believe).  Then, they should be constant until the next difficulty change (2 weeks later)

Yes and even with the difficulty increase virtualmine will pay more dividends/btc then asicminer

I highly doubt this, since each share is 'equivalent to 1MH/s'.

[boyohi]

why are people trying to ditch shares sub ipo righ now ? i dont know why people would do that unless its the dot com crash in the 90s

This is normal. In general, if the difficulty goes up, the dividends will be lower and the shares will be worth less. The price is falling because the difficulty is rising.

it is true the shares will be worth less as dividends are reduced over time. but dividends have been the same all week, so i dont think it applies to the recent dip.

As I understand it - divs will be constant until the next difficulty change (mid-next week I believe).  Then, they should be constant until the next difficulty change (2 weeks later)

Yes and even with the difficulty increase virtualmine will pay more dividends/btc then asicminer

I highly doubt this, since each share is 'equivalent to 1MH/s'.

3BTC AM
0.007 virtualmine
1 asicminer share=428 virtualmine
1 AM=0.036/week
428 Virtualmine=0.09656108/7days

Even with a difficulty increase it will still outperform AM in dividends.

[somestranger]

I highly doubt this, since each share is 'equivalent to 1MH/s'.

3 BTC will buy 420 shares of VM and 1 share of ASICMINER. ASICMINER is giving about .035btc/week, and the VM would give you 420 * .00003223 * .8 (20% difficulty increase) * 7 days = 0.0758 BTC/week.

[ranlo]

Hmm, based on the current dividend rate, it's a 230 or so day ROI (assuming no difficulty increases -- which we already know is false). I'm wondering why people are still buying into this.

Is there something I'm missing? If the dividends are already at 230 day ROI, and are going down every week or two... I don't see it breaking even for a couple years if it does at all.

[Kyune]

As I understand it - divs will be constant until the next difficulty change (mid-next week I believe).  Then, they should be constant until the next difficulty change (2 weeks later)

Keep in mind the difficulty change is defined in the code as every 2016 blocks, which means that in a time of rapidly rising difficulty, the next difficulty shift can happen quicker than 14 days, because the blocks are being solved faster than every 10 minutes.  For example, I believe the most recent difficulty jump of 28% happened in a time period a few hours shy of 12 days.

[boyohi]

Hmm, based on the current dividend rate, it's a 230 or so day ROI (assuming no difficulty increases -- which we already know is false). I'm wondering why people are still buying into this.

Is there something I'm missing? If the dividends are already at 230 day ROI, and are going down every week or two... I don't see it breaking even for a couple years if it does at all.

The thing you're missing is, try to find anything else that gives you a better deal. If you try mining yourself you'll have to deal with preorders that may or may not come. You can buy AM USB or Blades which is cheaper than these shares but you'll have to keep it running for a while at your own expense. How about investing in AM shares? They won't pay nearly as much in div/cost for a long time from what it seems. The BTC investing market is the most profitable and, if you want, you can go on wall street and do stocks with a 7% return a year.

Right now, even with difficulty increase, we are getting over 10% a month. Find anything in the world that will give you over 10% a month and I'll be glad to follow you into it.

EDIT: I do realize that starting a business might be a good idea depending on the business. I get to sit on my ass and get 10% a month.

[ranlo]

Hmm, based on the current dividend rate, it's a 230 or so day ROI (assuming no difficulty increases -- which we already know is false). I'm wondering why people are still buying into this.

Is there something I'm missing? If the dividends are already at 230 day ROI, and are going down every week or two... I don't see it breaking even for a couple years if it does at all.

The thing you're missing is, try to find anything else that gives you a better deal. If you try mining yourself you'll have to deal with preorders that may or may not come. You can buy AM USB or Blades which is cheaper than these shares but you'll have to keep it running for a while at your own expense. How about investing in AM shares? They won't pay nearly as much in div/cost for a long time from what it seems. The BTC investing market is the most profitable and, if you want, you can go on wall street and do stocks with a 7% return a year.

Right now, even with difficulty increase, we are getting over 10% a month. Find anything in the world that will give you over 10% a month and I'll be glad to follow you into it.

EDIT: I do realize that starting a business might be a good idea depending on the business. I get to sit on my ass and get 10% a month.

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

[boyohi]

Hmm, based on the current dividend rate, it's a 230 or so day ROI (assuming no difficulty increases -- which we already know is false). I'm wondering why people are still buying into this.

Is there something I'm missing? If the dividends are already at 230 day ROI, and are going down every week or two... I don't see it breaking even for a couple years if it does at all.

The thing you're missing is, try to find anything else that gives you a better deal. If you try mining yourself you'll have to deal with preorders that may or may not come. You can buy AM USB or Blades which is cheaper than these shares but you'll have to keep it running for a while at your own expense. How about investing in AM shares? They won't pay nearly as much in div/cost for a long time from what it seems. The BTC investing market is the most profitable and, if you want, you can go on wall street and do stocks with a 7% return a year.

Right now, even with difficulty increase, we are getting over 10% a month. Find anything in the world that will give you over 10% a month and I'll be glad to follow you into it.

EDIT: I do realize that starting a business might be a good idea depending on the business. I get to sit on my ass and get 10% a month.

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

It will definitely not drop to 3% next month. In order for that to happen difficulty will have to increase to 72,000,000. I'd say you don't to worry about that for a good 7 months if it increase 20% each cycle.

Of course you can always mine using the USB miners and resell them on ebay at a later date.

[ranlo]

Hmm, based on the current dividend rate, it's a 230 or so day ROI (assuming no difficulty increases -- which we already know is false). I'm wondering why people are still buying into this.

Is there something I'm missing? If the dividends are already at 230 day ROI, and are going down every week or two... I don't see it breaking even for a couple years if it does at all.

The thing you're missing is, try to find anything else that gives you a better deal. If you try mining yourself you'll have to deal with preorders that may or may not come. You can buy AM USB or Blades which is cheaper than these shares but you'll have to keep it running for a while at your own expense. How about investing in AM shares? They won't pay nearly as much in div/cost for a long time from what it seems. The BTC investing market is the most profitable and, if you want, you can go on wall street and do stocks with a 7% return a year.

Right now, even with difficulty increase, we are getting over 10% a month. Find anything in the world that will give you over 10% a month and I'll be glad to follow you into it.

EDIT: I do realize that starting a business might be a good idea depending on the business. I get to sit on my ass and get 10% a month.

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

It will definitely not drop to 3% next month. In order for that to happen difficulty will have to increase to 72,000,000. I'd say you don't to worry about that for a good 7 months if it increase 20% each cycle.

Of course you can always mine using the USB miners and resell them on ebay at a later date.

mmm, I may jump in on this then. It's much cheaper to get into than USB miners, and without having to do any extra work. Was just afraid of getting in on it and never seeing the full ROI, :p.

[boyohi]

Hmm, based on the current dividend rate, it's a 230 or so day ROI (assuming no difficulty increases -- which we already know is false). I'm wondering why people are still buying into this.

Is there something I'm missing? If the dividends are already at 230 day ROI, and are going down every week or two... I don't see it breaking even for a couple years if it does at all.

The thing you're missing is, try to find anything else that gives you a better deal. If you try mining yourself you'll have to deal with preorders that may or may not come. You can buy AM USB or Blades which is cheaper than these shares but you'll have to keep it running for a while at your own expense. How about investing in AM shares? They won't pay nearly as much in div/cost for a long time from what it seems. The BTC investing market is the most profitable and, if you want, you can go on wall street and do stocks with a 7% return a year.

Right now, even with difficulty increase, we are getting over 10% a month. Find anything in the world that will give you over 10% a month and I'll be glad to follow you into it.

EDIT: I do realize that starting a business might be a good idea depending on the business. I get to sit on my ass and get 10% a month.

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

It will definitely not drop to 3% next month. In order for that to happen difficulty will have to increase to 72,000,000. I'd say you don't to worry about that for a good 7 months if it increase 20% each cycle.

Of course you can always mine using the USB miners and resell them on ebay at a later date.

mmm, I may jump in on this then. It's much cheaper to get into than USB miners, and without having to do any extra work. Was just afraid of getting in on it and never seeing the full ROI, :p.

You can always sell it at anytime. I think its easier to sell these than it is for physical miners. I do consider these to be undervalue for the dividends it pays out compare to everything else.

The virtualmine in BTC-TC needs love. I'd buy those shares but don't have to BTC till next week.

[ranlo]

Hmm, based on the current dividend rate, it's a 230 or so day ROI (assuming no difficulty increases -- which we already know is false). I'm wondering why people are still buying into this.

Is there something I'm missing? If the dividends are already at 230 day ROI, and are going down every week or two... I don't see it breaking even for a couple years if it does at all.

The thing you're missing is, try to find anything else that gives you a better deal. If you try mining yourself you'll have to deal with preorders that may or may not come. You can buy AM USB or Blades which is cheaper than these shares but you'll have to keep it running for a while at your own expense. How about investing in AM shares? They won't pay nearly as much in div/cost for a long time from what it seems. The BTC investing market is the most profitable and, if you want, you can go on wall street and do stocks with a 7% return a year.

Right now, even with difficulty increase, we are getting over 10% a month. Find anything in the world that will give you over 10% a month and I'll be glad to follow you into it.

EDIT: I do realize that starting a business might be a good idea depending on the business. I get to sit on my ass and get 10% a month.

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

It will definitely not drop to 3% next month. In order for that to happen difficulty will have to increase to 72,000,000. I'd say you don't to worry about that for a good 7 months if it increase 20% each cycle.

Of course you can always mine using the USB miners and resell them on ebay at a later date.

mmm, I may jump in on this then. It's much cheaper to get into than USB miners, and without having to do any extra work. Was just afraid of getting in on it and never seeing the full ROI, :p.

You can always sell it at anytime. I think its easier to sell these than it is for physical miners. I do consider these to be undervalue for the dividends it pays out compare to everything else.

The virtualmine in BTC-TC needs love. I'd buy those shares but don't have to BTC till next week.

To make these purchases, what do we do? Just transfer funds over to the site and then set up a buy order?

And how are dividends handled? Sent directly to us or to our stock exchange account?

[boyohi]

Create an account with BTC-TC and transfer funds over. Go to the TAT.Virtualmine and buy it. The IPO is 0.007. The dividends are sent to your wallet on the exchange.

https://btct.co/security/TAT.VIRTUALMINE

[ranlo]

Create an account with BTC-TC and transfer funds over. Go to the TAT.Virtualmine and buy it. The IPO is 0.007. The dividends are sent to your wallet on the exchange.

https://btct.co/security/TAT.VIRTUALMINE

Awesome. Thanks for the clear explanation! That was another fear: tons of micropayments as a result, :p.

[twentyseventy]

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

I feel that this is the biggest issue that people don't realize about VM. The dividend will get smaller, but the price of the bond will also fluctuate based on the expected dividend!

So many people here are calculating ROI as if the price could never drop below the IPO price...

[boyohi]

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

I feel that this is the biggest issue that people don't realize about VM. The dividend will get smaller, but the price of the bond will also fluctuate based on the expected dividend!

So many people here are calculating ROI as if the price could never drop below the IPO price...

I highly doubt this, since each share is 'equivalent to 1MH/s'.

3 BTC will buy 420 shares of VM and 1 share of ASICMINER. ASICMINER is giving about .035btc/week, and the VM would give you 420 * .00003223 * .8 (20% difficulty increase) * 7 days = 0.0758 BTC/week.

Even with difficulty calculated it will still outperform AM shares.

[odolvlobo]

Even with difficulty calculated it will still outperform AM shares.

boyohi,

It is important to include the price of the shares in your computation. If the price of a share of VM drops by 0.0001 over a week while AM remains constant, then both will have the same return.

[boyohi]

If the price of VM drops to .0001 then buying them at the price you'll have 188x the dividends of AM in a week. It wont drop to that low.

[odolvlobo]

If the price of VM drops to .0001 then buying them at the price you'll have 188x the dividends of AM in a week. It wont drop to that low.

I meant drops by 0.0001, not drops to 0.0001. If VM drops, from 0.0070 to 0.0069, for example, then your 420 shares have lost a total of 0.0420 BTC, which exceeds the difference between the 0.035 BTC from AM and 0.0758 BTC from VM.