Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[smoothie]

Care to explain?

Sure. In order for the scammer tag to have any value at all, people need to see that we only use it in the absolute clearest of cases. When someone sees a scammer tag, they will then know that they shouldn't even try trading with that person. If we used the scammer tag in this case, 22% of the forum would believe that a scammer tag has no value and would ignore it in the future.

And by that logic 78% are viewing the "no scammer tag" decision as useless because it does not give people who do not know better to believe the lies/misrepresentation that BFL has perpetuated on these forums for a year.

[Kouye]

Sure. In order for the scammer tag to have any value at all, people need to see that we only use it in the absolute clearest of cases. When someone sees a scammer tag, they will then know that they shouldn't even try trading with that person. If we used the scammer tag in this case, 22% of the forum would believe that a scammer tag has no value and would ignore it in the future.

What's the threshold? 14%? 8%?

And more importantly, what's the timeout?
If I ordered a minirig a year ago due to ship 8 months ago, how long will it take for you to acknowledge I've been ripped off ?

[Inaba]

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

This is epic.  MooC Tals: BFL is a scam!  They should be given a scammer tag on Bitcointalk.  They suck!  They are liars!  Oh... by the way, I'm going to keep my order with them.  lol... what a hypocrite.

[smoothie]

Sure. In order for the scammer tag to have any value at all, people need to see that we only use it in the absolute clearest of cases. When someone sees a scammer tag, they will then know that they shouldn't even try trading with that person. If we used the scammer tag in this case, 22% of the forum would believe that a scammer tag has no value and would ignore it in the future.

What's the threshold? 14%? 8%?

And more importantly, what's the timeout?
If I ordered a minirig a year ago due to ship 8 months ago, how long will it take for you to acknowledge I've been ripped off ?

They won't. Remember it doesn't matter what the mods think of BFL.

lol 

[smoothie]

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

This is epic.  MooC Tals: BFL is a scam!  They should be given a scammer tag on Bitcointalk.  They suck!  They are liars!  Oh... by the way, I'm going to keep my order with them.  lol... what a hypocrite.

Got time to come troll the forums I see.

BFL customers this is what the person in charge of your pre-orders does when he is supposed to be "delivering" a now 1 year old product from preorder inception.

And he has the balls to come here and talk shit.

[MooC Tals]

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

This is epic.  MooC Tals: BFL is a scam!  They should be given a scammer tag on Bitcointalk.  They suck!  They are liars!  Oh... by the way, I'm going to keep my order with them.  lol... what a hypocrite.

That quote was worded that way so SLok your paid shill behaved himself. I found that I get better treatment from them when they assume I am a paying customer. Funny eh?



Sorry dude! I dumped your company in Jan 8 2013 after listening to your lies for 3 fucken months. Say hi to Jodi for me. I was the guy threatening to cancel my order if Jan 1 arrived on your forum.

lol I would never buy from your pathetic dysfunctional lying criminal company again. This will never be a repeat customer. I have actually persuaded others close to me from buying units from you. I believe I have done enough to satisfy the taste of vengeance.  So enjoy your cup of oblivion.


Here is the email record I have kept. I would say look up the numbers but I'm pretty sure you guys would screw that up too. I posted this in the pre-order wait list here on bitcoin talk and if your still not inclined to believe me I can show you the two posts

One adding my order number to the list and the other of me requesting it to be removed from the list.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.msg1302392#msg1302392 <Ordered
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.msg1486205#msg1486205 <Cancelled



You just been fired! I will no longer need your services. Thank you

[MooC Tals]

Inaba The only reason your shipping your Jala's is for one reason and that is from the difficulty being made by Avalon batch 1.

I bet it is making you guys sweat like how I was sweating watching the value of my pre-orders melt with every lie that came out of your mouth.

A difficulty jump of 153 to 184 million is quite a start and very impressive. Jala's used to make 17 dollars a day to 14 and in two weeks who knows maybe down to 11. What is the life span of these units? I guess those pre-orders will be switching to refunds soon. At the same time I can't see them being useful for anything else and maybe that's why your selling chips now cus you just figured that they just won't pay for them selves. Why not just mine them your selve and the money you make pay for your refunds.

So now the heat is on to push out these jalas and you still have time to read the  forum?

GET BACK TO WORK!!!!  BTW I voted no to scammer tag. You imbecile

[Inaba]

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

This is epic.  MooC Tals: BFL is a scam!  They should be given a scammer tag on Bitcointalk.  They suck!  They are liars!  Oh... by the way, I'm going to keep my order with them.  lol... what a hypocrite.

That quote was worded that way so SLok your paid shill behaved himself. I found that I get better treatment from them when they assume I am a paying customer. Funny eh?



Sorry dude! I dumped your company in Jan 8 2013 after listening to your lies for 3 fucken months. Say hi to Jodi for me. I was the guy threatening to cancel my order if Jan 1 arrived on your forum.

lol I would never buy from your pathetic dysfunctional lying criminal company again. This will never be a repeat customer. I have actually persuaded others close to me from buying units from you. I believe I have done enough to satisfy the taste of vengeance.  So enjoy your cup of oblivion.


Here is the email record I have kept. I would say look up the numbers but I'm pretty sure you guys would screw that up too. I posted this in the pre-order wait list here on bitcoin talk and if your still not inclined to believe me I can show you the two posts

One adding my order number to the list and the other of me requesting it to be removed from the list.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.msg1302392#msg1302392 <Ordered
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.msg1486205#msg1486205 <Cancelled



You just been fired! I will no longer need your services. Thank you

Yes, I recall you mentioning that now.  So you basically lied above, then, huh?  Not surprising.

Anyway, I'm sure I've already done it, but let me thank you again from the bottom of my heart for canceling your order.  I really appreciate you not inflicting yourself and your friends upon my CS team for a whopping $683, it is sincerely appreciated.

[MooC Tals]

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

This is epic.  MooC Tals: BFL is a scam!  They should be given a scammer tag on Bitcointalk.  They suck!  They are liars!  Oh... by the way, I'm going to keep my order with them.  lol... what a hypocrite.

That quote was worded that way so SLok your paid shill behaved himself. I found that I get better treatment from them when they assume I am a paying customer. Funny eh?



Sorry dude! I dumped your company in Jan 8 2013 after listening to your lies for 3 fucken months. Say hi to Jodi for me. I was the guy threatening to cancel my order if Jan 1 arrived on your forum.

lol I would never buy from your pathetic dysfunctional lying criminal company again. This will never be a repeat customer. I have actually persuaded others close to me from buying units from you. I believe I have done enough to satisfy the taste of vengeance.  So enjoy your cup of oblivion.


Here is the email record I have kept. I would say look up the numbers but I'm pretty sure you guys would screw that up too. I posted this in the pre-order wait list here on bitcoin talk and if your still not inclined to believe me I can show you the two posts

One adding my order number to the list and the other of me requesting it to be removed from the list.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.msg1302392#msg1302392 <Ordered
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.msg1486205#msg1486205 <Cancelled



You just been fired! I will no longer need your services. Thank you

Yes, I recall you mentioning that now.  So you basically lied above, then, huh?  Not surprising.

Anyway, I'm sure I've already done it, but let me thank you again from the bottom of my heart for canceling your order.  I really appreciate you not inflicting yourself and your friends upon my CS team for a whopping $683, it is sincerely appreciated.

I bet you appreciated my 3 month interest free loan you mean. I been noticing that you started charging an additional service fee of some sort with the new refunds as mine does not include that. Was that your idea?

Haha Ooooh Scathing Takes one liar to know one as they say. You're not saying that a measly $163 and $683 dollar order is not worth your appreciation, right? What would all those other jala and SC orders think of what you just said there? You just keep putting your foot in your mouth nowadays. I hoping you appreciate the Jala customers you are servicing now. Why else would you be shipping them first. It would be out of appreciation for their business.
 
I would like to thank you for a more civil post compared to the last one that made coin desk. We both felt we have been portrayed incorrectly. Agreed?

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

I know it's not easy to run a company and with the type of customers you serve. We can be very demanding and some of us are quite the knowledgeable bunch.  

However I still wish you the ability to learn from your mistakes or at least acknowledge them. In my humble opinion honesty would have serve you better in the long run and I personally would have waited longer on my order if your company had been more forth coming with the problems you were experiencing along the way. I still believe a scammer tag is not warranted only due to the employees you are responsible for. Jodi seems nice.

In my experiences if I was honest with my customers they would 99% of the time understand and stuck it out with my problems and those 1% would ask for a concession of some sort. Proud to say I have never lost a sale/job.

Your lost customer

[Inaba]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit. 

[YipYip]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

How about the prototype or the clock buffers or the never ending deadlines ... oh i get it these are not lies because they where not really statements as such but just mere words that had no gurantee's behind them

...u make me lol..

[YipYip]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

So the many sock puppet account u have used is not lies or deceit either or are u going to pretedn that u HAVE NEVER USED ANOTHER account on these forums..

Come on give us a statement as such ... this will reaqlly give me a laugh...oh wait its time for the "Look the goodyear blimp" moment where u attack me or something else to change tack and subject ... oh josh josh josh u r too clever for me ..

[MooC Tals]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

I think you could remember this. I should book mark this page as it would be easier to find for you the next time you need a reminder as to why we are upset with your company.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947

As for the trol accusations I have resisted in posting large quantities of thread on your forum. I'm not surprised that I should get that from you. I was your customer before and now I'm a troll? I used to defend your company and still do as for a vote on this thread and still I am a troll.

Are you taking the night off?

[Frizz23]

Lies, upon lies, upon lies. I never deleted or edited 1 single post here, or anywhere else.

I provided evidence that you
- delete your old posting
- dox forum users.

I on the other hand asked you several times to provide evidence for your outrageous accusations (" ...You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours. ..."). Your reply: Silence.

Now you come complaining that I rednosed a picture of you ...

Can you even read? I didn't complain about the photos/rednosing - I complained about your lies.
This is what I wrote: "I don't mind that you put photos online - but at least don't lie about it and don't deny your doxing attempts".

... that was floating on the forum already ...

It was floating around because you've been the one that put it online. Of course you deleted the evidence (oh no, in your twisted reality the evil moderators did it).


Slok, all I want to say to you is this: Like attracts like. A shady company like BFL attracts shady, psychopathic fanboys like yourself.

I have provided enough evidence to proof that you are lying.

I'm not gonna waste any more time on you.

[smoothie]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

The following were decietful/lies:

1. Delivery Date: Check

2. FCC compliance: Check

3. Making statements in PR saying BFL has employees with the lots of experience in ASIC development then fail to be first to market: Check

4. Charity Bet you lost as well as BFL lost and then sort of paid with a BFL-based charity: Check


So as Yifu said at the Bitcoin Conference 2013:

"Either BFL was lying or they don't know what they were doing."

So either way you look at it, from either deceit or incompetence the #3 lie BFL (you) made put you folks in a paradox because if one is true the other shows you are a liar: incompetent or deceitful.

Yifu and the AVALON team could even see through your bullshit back in November 2012.

[Inaba]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

I think you could remember this. I should book mark this page as it would be easier to find for you the next time you need a reminder as to why we are upset with your company.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947

As for the trol accusations I have resisted in posting large quantities of thread on your forum. I'm not surprised that I should get that from you. I was your customer before and now I'm a troll? I used to defend your company and still do as for a vote on this thread and still I am a troll.

Are you taking the night off?

I've asked you to demonstrate where we've been deceitful or untruthful.  You keep claiming it, but you have yet to demonstrate this.  Therefore your are a troll.  Making mistakes and overestimations are not lies or deceit.  What you are doing, constantly claiming lies and deceit without any proof, is a lie.  You are being untruthful and deceitful.

[SLok]

Lies, upon lies, upon lies. I never deleted or edited 1 single post here, or anywhere else.

I provided evidence that you
- delete your old posting
- dox forum users.

I on the other hand asked you several times to provide evidence for your outrageous accusations (" ...You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours. ..."). Your reply: Silence.

Now you come complaining that I rednosed a picture of you ...

Can you even read? I didn't complain about the photos/rednosing - I complained about your lies.
This is what I wrote: "I don't mind that you put photos online - but at least don't lie about it and don't deny your doxing attempts".

... that was floating on the forum already ...

It was floating around because you've been the one that put it online. Of course you deleted the evidence (oh no, in your twisted reality the evil moderators did it).


Slok, all I want to say to you is this: Like attracts like. A shady company like BFL attracts shady, psychopathic fanboys like yourself.

I have provided enough evidence to proof that you are lying.

I'm not gonna waste any more time on you.

Lie 1: There is no evidence that I deleted my old post because I didn't. Here is the PM "bitcoin forum" sent after that post was removed, because of the picture in it:

Bitcoin Forum
Guest
   
Deleted Post
« Sent to: SLok on: May 17, 2013, 03:01:02 PM »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »
   Reply with quoteReply with quote Remove this messageRemove
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

Quote
Cool! Pictures! How is that BFL refund coming along, Supertramp?
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/daargaje/planetFrizzS_zpsaec2d172.png

The fact that a post was removed, does not absolutely mean it was removed by the user, posts are deleted here by mods too, you see. Your provided evidence is worth nothing in this case, because it doesn't exist. Let me help you a bit more with an inbox screenshot, you like screenshots don't you?:




lie 2: The post with your picture was placed before, with it you were also attacked about something that was apparently on your fb page or elsewhere about some Krishnamurty being a narcissist, look it up yourself. I can not see anything on fb pages because I don't have fb, but I told you that already.

lie 3: You know well that the topics you made at the bfl forum asking for cancellation and payback were removed, after a BFL moderator found that the order numbers you provided were non-paid orders or non existent. After being confronted you started raging and posting sexist homophobic rants and anti_Semite shit which lead to that. You know them well, the lot knows them well, that's why I said "anyone that has been around longer than a blue Monday knows what your trade is...".

lie 4: "I never made extra accounts here on bctalk", I already remembered 9 here you made twice, for this and the bfl forum without doing a search... You are a fraud, your poll is a fraud.

So, don't waste any more time on me, fine, but expect to get the attention you ask for when you keep posting your lies. 

[RoadStress]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

I think you could remember this. I should book mark this page as it would be easier to find for you the next time you need a reminder as to why we are upset with your company.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947

As for the trol accusations I have resisted in posting large quantities of thread on your forum. I'm not surprised that I should get that from you. I was your customer before and now I'm a troll? I used to defend your company and still do as for a vote on this thread and still I am a troll.

Are you taking the night off?

I've asked you to demonstrate where we've been deceitful or untruthful.  You keep claiming it, but you have yet to demonstrate this.  Therefore your are a troll.  Making mistakes and overestimations are not lies or deceit.  What you are doing, constantly claiming lies and deceit without any proof, is a lie.  You are being untruthful and deceitful.

And you are a retard!

[creativex]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

I think you could remember this. I should book mark this page as it would be easier to find for you the next time you need a reminder as to why we are upset with your company.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947

As for the trol accusations I have resisted in posting large quantities of thread on your forum. I'm not surprised that I should get that from you. I was your customer before and now I'm a troll? I used to defend your company and still do as for a vote on this thread and still I am a troll.

Are you taking the night off?

I've asked you to demonstrate where we've been deceitful or untruthful.  You keep claiming it, but you have yet to demonstrate this.  Therefore your are a troll.  Making mistakes and overestimations are not lies or deceit.  What you are doing, constantly claiming lies and deceit without any proof, is a lie.  You are being untruthful and deceitful.

And you are a retard!

Nah...just more of the "we're totally incompetent bumbling idiots...but not intentionally dishonest thieves defense". Too bad for BFL they themselves claimed to be experts and their COO repeatedly attacked the competition claiming they were the amateurs.

This is similar to the "Sonny isn't really a thief because goobermint is corrupt and out to get him" defense. Not exactly justification for stealing grandma's retirement, but hey, why mess up a perfectly good story.

[MooC Tals]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit.  

I think you could remember this. I should book mark this page as it would be easier to find for you the next time you need a reminder as to why we are upset with your company.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947

As for the trol accusations I have resisted in posting large quantities of thread on your forum. I'm not surprised that I should get that from you. I was your customer before and now I'm a troll? I used to defend your company and still do as for a vote on this thread and still I am a troll.

Are you taking the night off?

I've asked you to demonstrate where we've been deceitful or untruthful.  You keep claiming it, but you have yet to demonstrate this.  Therefore your are a troll.  Making mistakes and overestimations are not lies or deceit.  What you are doing, constantly claiming lies and deceit without any proof, is a lie.  You are being untruthful and deceitful.

So telling me to order in October and telling me that I could possibly get my unit by Christmas was a mistake? What would be a lie in your fantasy world of yours. Contempt for a customer? A willing to misrepresent the truth to accomplish a goal.

1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2: to create a false or misleading impression 

Are you kidding? You expect me and everyone else to believe that every time you said in the week of you were actually going to deliver that week?

For a year?

Who was mislead in October? The advertisers that you paid money to? Did you tell them you were going to deliver units as soon as you had the chips? Now that you have chips you need a board?

a)How about the 1/3 rule did you not mislead/lie to your waiting customers into thinking you were going to ship them in a way that would satisfy all pre-orders but as we know now that Jalas are the only units that you can ship now? Do you even read what I post?

b)How can you ship the chips now in bulk and say with a straight face you have not lied to your customers about the 1/3 rule? You have chips now and you promised and gave the impression that if you pre ordered now that you could be seeing one in late Dec.

Do you have any idea what your doing there? or are you misrepresenting the truth?

You have the constitution to post that you play the role of an asshole here on Bitcointalk.org to keep threads on top to have more attention brought to your website and in turn you get more pre-orders.

Do you even have a conscience or able to sympathize with people around you? Does everything in your life a goal to further yours. Do you even understand this or do you just make excuses for your self to make it bearable.

I could not live that way. Most people can't either.