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Author Topic: Address with Avalon bulk chip payments now tops $8 million...  (Read 11989 times)
Tehfiend
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June 06, 2013, 04:30:23 PM
 #1

Address 1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU, which appears to hold payments for Avalon bulk chip orders, now holds 67,185.1 BTC which is worth over $8 million @ $120/BTC. With the lack of info coming out of Bitsyncom, I'm very curious what exactly is going on over there. With the additional delays in batch 2 since the April 15th update, something obviously is not going according to plan and I am surprised the bulk chip funds have not been touched considering the first orders were made over 7 weeks ago with a supposed lead time of 9-10 weeks. If they have placed all of these chip orders with the foundry, I wonder how they are paying for them. Any theories out there?
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June 06, 2013, 06:21:02 PM
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Here's what we know as of today:

- Batch 1 Avalons still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157856.0

- Batch 1 badly damaged Avalon, Bitsyncom replied to say "that's unfortunate, we will work out a solution to ship this one back and send you another." and then no follow-up or response from Bitsyncom for over 50 days and counting.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178168.0

- Batch 2 Avalons significantly delayed and still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167726.1200

- Batch 3 Avalons not delivered at all, no updates from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203745.60

- Avalon ASIC chip purchases started over 7 weeks ago and no sample chips in sight, no updates from Bitsyncom despite Avalon website stating "30 sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering per 10,000 chips."
Of all the Avalon ASIC chip group buys, no one has heard a single word from Bitsyncom about the sample chips

- Zefir's Batch 8 Avalon ASIC chip purchase issue has not be resolved or even addressed by Bitsyncom, resulting in ~$93,000 of the community's money being received by Avalon but no confirmation of the order given by their order system. No response from Bitsyncom for over 6 weeks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.660


At this point, there is no good excuse for the lack of communication on his part, especially considering the amount of money this community has spent to purchase his goods. These aren't technical support issues, either.

For all the sensitivity there is now to potential scams whenever an ASIC company pops up, why isn't Avalon under the same scrutiny? They've shipped a small number of units, but so has BFL. Is there any way to confirm with TSMC that they are actually having chips made?? So many developers are awaiting those samples.
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June 06, 2013, 06:41:11 PM
 #3

Here's what we know as of today:

- Batch 1 Avalons still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157856.0

- Batch 1 badly damaged Avalon, Bitsyncom replied to say "that's unfortunate, we will work out a solution to ship this one back and send you another." and then no follow-up or response from Bitsyncom for over 50 days and counting.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178168.0

- Batch 2 Avalons significantly delayed and still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167726.1200

- Batch 3 Avalons not delivered at all, no updates from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203745.60

- Avalon ASIC chip purchases from over 7 weeks ago and no sample chips in sight, no updates from Bitsyncom despite Avalon website stating "30 sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering per 10,000 chips."
Of all the Avalon ASIC chip group buys, no one has heard a single word from Bitsyncom about the sample chips

- Zefir's Batch 8 Avalon ASIC chip purchase issue has not be resolved or even addressed by Bitsyncom, resulting in ~$93,000 of the community's money being received by Avalon but no confirmation of the order given by their order system. No response from Bitsyncom for over 6 weeks.


At this point, there is no good excuse for the lack of communication on his part, especially considering the amount of money this community has spent to purchase his goods. These aren't technical support issues, either.

For all the sensitivity there is now to potential scams whenever an ASIC company pops up, why isn't Avalon under the same scrutiny? They've shipped a small number of units, but so has BFL. Is there any way to confirm with TSMC that they are actually having chips made?? So many developers are awaiting those samples.


uhh very good and scary summary.  I already know about some avalon delays, but from this perspective it looks really bad..
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June 06, 2013, 06:53:17 PM
 #4

Here's what we know as of today:

- Batch 1 Avalons still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157856.0

- Batch 1 badly damaged Avalon, Bitsyncom replied to say "that's unfortunate, we will work out a solution to ship this one back and send you another." and then no follow-up or response from Bitsyncom for over 50 days and counting.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178168.0

- Batch 2 Avalons significantly delayed and still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167726.1200

- Batch 3 Avalons not delivered at all, no updates from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203745.60

- Avalon ASIC chip purchases started over 7 weeks ago and no sample chips in sight, no updates from Bitsyncom despite Avalon website stating "30 sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering per 10,000 chips."
Of all the Avalon ASIC chip group buys, no one has heard a single word from Bitsyncom about the sample chips

- Zefir's Batch 8 Avalon ASIC chip purchase issue has not be resolved or even addressed by Bitsyncom, resulting in ~$93,000 of the community's money being received by Avalon but no confirmation of the order given by their order system. No response from Bitsyncom for over 6 weeks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.660


At this point, there is no good excuse for the lack of communication on his part, especially considering the amount of money this community has spent to purchase his goods. These aren't technical support issues, either.

For all the sensitivity there is now to potential scams whenever an ASIC company pops up, why isn't Avalon under the same scrutiny? They've shipped a small number of units, but so has BFL. Is there any way to confirm with TSMC that they are actually having chips made?? So many developers are awaiting those samples.

Alarming.  He posted regularly right up until april 18th, then only two posts since then, but he was active on the forums the 28th..
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June 06, 2013, 06:56:31 PM
 #5

The real Q is how to cash out 65K btc to pay for expenses. Even half of that is a lot to cash out. Look at the order book at Gox and you can see thats going to be difficult.
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June 06, 2013, 07:27:46 PM
 #6

the latest update is from presentation that held place during foundation conference... it was third week of may, yifu said during next couple of weeks they're looking to setup new production line since the old one is only capable of delivering at the frame rate we have seen so far and that is roughly 10 per day including regular delays nye and mayday holidays ... which means do the math... new line should deploy 50 per day, yet no confirmation of the new facility....

both companies are capable of delivering only 10 units per day as it seems statistically so far, bfl with 5ghash and avalon with 65, and apparently neither one   lacks money, bfl is giving to charity and bitsyn still doesn't have to touch the 60k btcs... i wouldn't be surprised if that wallet with $8mil is their profit, on top of all production costs...


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June 06, 2013, 07:34:59 PM
 #7

Here's what we know as of today:

- Batch 1 Avalons still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157856.0

- Batch 1 badly damaged Avalon, Bitsyncom replied to say "that's unfortunate, we will work out a solution to ship this one back and send you another." and then no follow-up or response from Bitsyncom for over 50 days and counting.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178168.0

- Batch 2 Avalons significantly delayed and still not all delivered, no response from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167726.1200

- Batch 3 Avalons not delivered at all, no updates from Bitsyncom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203745.60

- Avalon ASIC chip purchases started over 7 weeks ago and no sample chips in sight, no updates from Bitsyncom despite Avalon website stating "30 sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering per 10,000 chips."
Of all the Avalon ASIC chip group buys, no one has heard a single word from Bitsyncom about the sample chips

- Zefir's Batch 8 Avalon ASIC chip purchase issue has not be resolved or even addressed by Bitsyncom, resulting in ~$93,000 of the community's money being received by Avalon but no confirmation of the order given by their order system. No response from Bitsyncom for over 6 weeks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.660


At this point, there is no good excuse for the lack of communication on his part, especially considering the amount of money this community has spent to purchase his goods. These aren't technical support issues, either.

For all the sensitivity there is now to potential scams whenever an ASIC company pops up, why isn't Avalon under the same scrutiny? They've shipped a small number of units, but so has BFL. Is there any way to confirm with TSMC that they are actually having chips made?? So many developers are awaiting those samples.

I don't know maybe because they don't use multiple accounts and point out the failings of BFL like you are... transparent much?

You can give Avalon some leeway whereas after a 11 months of pure unadulterated BS from BFL they deserve a lot more than the anger of the forum here they need to stop playing games here in the forums and start shipping product. The time for posturing and promotion is over. Avalon will or will not deliver but someone with 7 posts to his name up on every thread? Please. BFL playbook right there. Deflect the attention off their poor record? Think not.

Having said all that, yes Avalon is not really doing it's best to communicate and that is troubling but is it BFL level of BS? No. So stop equating them.

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June 06, 2013, 08:09:05 PM
 #8

When are the Avalon chips suppose to be delivered? If the first order was 7 weeks ago then delivery should take place within 2-3 weeks right? If Avalon is delayed in sending out the chips then that will end up delaying all the assemblers waiting on the Avalon chips in order to get their miners made. I am a little worried as i have placed orders with assemblers waiting on Avalon chips.  Undecided Undecided Undecided
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June 06, 2013, 08:25:16 PM
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Bicknellski, I assume you think I'm someone else who's already been posting on this forum, but no. I'm a noob who's been researching and reading through the posts on bitcointalk for a few months now. I haven't really participated in discussions, though, hence the low post count.

I wasn't equating BFL and Avalon, simply stating that they have both shipped a mere fraction of their stated goals. Ever since I first came into this forum and started reading all the horror stories about BFL, I've avoided BFL like the plague. I have no stake in the BFL game as I've not put any money into them, and have basically written them off.

This post from FCTaiChi is one I've been reading because I like the spreadsheet he's working on of miners in development: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209750.0

He recently took BFL off the list completely, which is great for me because I was ignoring those rows anyway since BFL basically doesn't exist to me. Of course, FCTaiChi also extended the estimated shipping dates for any Avalon ASIC chip based projects, which I also tend to agree makes sense as Avalon's history says that shipping dates will not be met.

Bitsyncom sounds like he means what he says and is legit. I hope he is. I have taken some risk and purchased chips in various group buys. I would love to be wrong and see posts tomorrow from BKKCoins, burnin, etc saying they've received sample chips and can continue developing miners. But the silence is unnerving.


tl;dr i'm new on here, but getting into btc mining, so been lurking bitcointalk. For me, BFL = no. Avalon/Bitsyncom = maybe, shipping much later than stated, difficulty climbing, they've collected a mountain of BTC, I've preordered chips in some group buys, developers awaiting sample chips, but no one has heard from Bitsyncom. And we desperately want to!
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June 06, 2013, 09:04:35 PM
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The real Q is how to cash out 65K btc to pay for expenses. Even half of that is a lot to cash out. Look at the order book at Gox and you can see thats going to be difficult.
In the video of him at the Bitcoin conference, Bitsyncom said something about not using online exchanges to cash out. That not all transactions happen on exchanges. He also said that they do it in batches, not all at once, as the orders come in. So, when the first order for 10,000 chips came in 7 weeks ago, this would mean that he only converted the money needed to order the chips from TSMC (or whoever is making the chips). Presumably, he could do that with BTC from a different source than the receiving address.
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June 06, 2013, 09:28:08 PM
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Something just feels a little "off" about Avalon these days.
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June 06, 2013, 09:36:46 PM
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Avalon has zero customer service but people are throwing money at them because they have delivered a bunch of boxes? Very few people actually own an Avalon box yet the number of chip orders is ridiculously high. They are interested in making a new generation of chips, why would they want to make hundreds of thousands of chips on a process that they want to retire? It doesn't make sense.
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June 06, 2013, 10:21:23 PM
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The real Q is how to cash out 65K btc to pay for expenses. Even half of that is a lot to cash out. Look at the order book at Gox and you can see thats going to be difficult.
In the video of him at the Bitcoin conference, Bitsyncom said something about not using online exchanges to cash out. That not all transactions happen on exchanges. He also said that they do it in batches, not all at once, as the orders come in. So, when the first order for 10,000 chips came in 7 weeks ago, this would mean that he only converted the money needed to order the chips from TSMC (or whoever is making the chips). Presumably, he could do that with BTC from a different source than the receiving address.

Yes i saw that too. But i find it hard to believe he can move that much bitcoin in quantity without using the exchanges. There really just isn't that much demand unless hes giving a huge discount. And if so private message me Yifu i'd buy a crapton at a discount.
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June 06, 2013, 11:29:39 PM
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the latest update is from presentation that held place during foundation conference... it was third week of may, yifu said during next couple of weeks they're looking to setup new production line since the old one is only capable of delivering at the frame rate we have seen so far and that is roughly 10 per day including regular delays nye and mayday holidays ... which means do the math... new line should deploy 50 per day, yet no confirmation of the new facility....

both companies are capable of delivering only 10 units per day as it seems statistically so far, bfl with 5ghash and avalon with 65, and apparently neither one   lacks money, bfl is giving to charity and bitsyn still doesn't have to touch the 60k btcs... i wouldn't be surprised if that wallet with $8mil is their profit, on top of all production costs...
It doesn't appear that they've been able to ship even 10 units/day since they announced they started shipping batch #2 in April. If they were producing 50 units/week using the old SMT line (assuming they work 5 days a week) then over half of batch #2 would be shipped by now. The new SMT line which was supposed to be up and running by the end of April would be able to produce all of batch #2 in a little over 2 weeks so obviously something is not going according to the plan in their last official update.

In the video of him at the Bitcoin conference, Bitsyncom said something about not using online exchanges to cash out. That not all transactions happen on exchanges. He also said that they do it in batches, not all at once, as the orders come in. So, when the first order for 10,000 chips came in 7 weeks ago, this would mean that he only converted the money needed to order the chips from TSMC (or whoever is making the chips). Presumably, he could do that with BTC from a different source than the receiving address.
They haven't touched ANY of the coins on that address, regardless of how they plan to sell them. If they have already paid the foundry from another source then that implies most of this $8 million is profit since it can't cost that much to package and ship the chips. The sample chips are now officially late as they were supposed to ship by the end of last month so I would guess they aren't going to make their advertised 9-10 week lead time. Perhaps they plan to delay the shipment of bulk chips until batch #3 ships which would make sense but I would have guessed the sample chips would be out on time at least. Regardless, all of the people that invested in bulk chips really deserve an update. It looks like BigTimeCoin has already canceled his plans to bring his 10k chip order to market... Sad

I just ordered a Jupiter from KNC and I really hope they break this trend of keeping ASIC customers in the dark.
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June 06, 2013, 11:42:36 PM
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Anybody know how many asic devices are actually in the wild?

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June 07, 2013, 01:21:31 AM
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I've received my batch #2 order finally, I was considering it was a scam also, but I'm and mining and happy.
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June 07, 2013, 01:24:58 AM
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I've received my batch #2 order finally, I was considering it was a scam also, but I'm and mining and happy.

That was your first post since March.  Would you mind updating everyone here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146451.0

They are keeping a tally of all orders received.  Might help with some of the hysteria going on...

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June 07, 2013, 01:27:24 AM
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I've received my batch #2 order finally, I was considering it was a scam also, but I'm and mining and happy.

When did you order?
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June 07, 2013, 01:30:37 AM
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About 3 weeks ago, Avalon was rumored to have sold roughly 20,000 BTC. It moved the market significantly and set off riots in #bitcoin-analysis until someone figured out it was Avalon selling. The evidence was circumstantial, but it would explain why there are no samples yet. I don't think 3 weeks is not enough time to turn around.

$8 Million, woof.

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June 07, 2013, 01:37:47 AM
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Maybe they lost the key Smiley

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