[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[TwinWinNerD]

Awesome news. Thank you, Giancarlo!!!!

[1715646873]

1715646873

[1715646873]

1715646873

[1715646873]

1715646873

[1715646873]

1715646873

[1715646873]

1715646873

[just1nmc]

Great news. Thank you for the fix Bitfinex Team.

[superbit]

Good stuff!

Can you please clarify though.  I understand that any loan is a 1 hour minimum, but lets say I have the loan for 61 minutes, is that 2 hours or 1 hour interest.

In otherwords is the first hour 0 - 59 minutes or 0 - 119 minutes?

[BitCoinNutJob]

Question about stop loss order... i need to fully understand what they are...

so if i put in a stop loss order in @ $100 and the price hits $99 it will market sell my order correct?

does the stop loss order ever fail i swear last time i tried it it didnt sell when the price dropped below, any reports of it failing before?

was hoping for this to get covered when u can, if i missed the reply can you re paste cheers!

[Arthur Randolph]

Feature request: Would it be possible to have read-only API keys? Or even better keys with granular ACLs.

[TalkingBit]

Dear All

it's funny how starting to talk about something ( people taking and giving back loans in a matter minutes) actually became a self fulfilling prophecy.

When a couple of days ago a newbie ( can't remember his name and I'm too busy/lazy to go back and check it ) started to scream about it, the number of these "operations" was really close to zero.
The reason why we kept this open was because it wasn't a problem ( at least until that particular moment) and we thought people opening a position by mistake should be allowed to close it without penalty.

Now, in the last hours we have seen a raise in this kind of behavior and we decided to change this rule.

Starting from now every single position opened will be charged at least one hour.

I apologize in advance for penalizing distracted/lazy traders that didn't collect liquidity before opening their leveraged position.
Not much we can do for you as we have to act in order to limit the silliness of some smart ass.

I hope the above mentioned smart ass wont read this post and go on with his nonsense, so that he will find out the hard way that is better to go playing basketball on a sunday instead of trying to rig the market.

Have a good day and a wonderful sunday

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

As much as i welcome this decision this approach bothers me a lot. I guess you're not big enough to care at this point, but i think there should be full disclosure every time there's a policy change. Don't get me wrong i want to see him burned too, but I'd feel much more confident in the professionalism of the exchange if stuff like this was posted on front page or at least in the terms of service and maybe emailed out. Figuring things out as you're hacking through things doesn't instill much confidence or trust to commit big amounts. I'd hate to be on the receiving side of things next time you switch things around that would effect me 

[Lonechaos]

We decided therefore to review our fee ledger as follows:

1)  from 0 to 500 BTC                   :       0.15%
2)  from 500 to 2,000 BTC            :       0.14%
3)  from 2,000 to 5,000 BTC         :       0.13%
4)  from 5000 to 15000 BTC         :       0.12%
5)  from 15,000 to 25,000 BTC     :       0.11%
6)  over 25,000 BTC                        :       0.10%

Numbers are applied on BTC traded in the last 30 days.

It would be nice if the fees were calculated in fiat as the value of BTC makes getting in the 5k to 15k range "harder", it requires a lot more USD volume value now than it did at lower price levels. Also, that fee plan seems to put my fee at 0.13% from tomorrow and that is a very unlucky number.

Overall, I find this fee raise a total scandal and I am immediately switching over to an exchange with lower fees and the same great set of of features and supperb service since that's easy to find... in a dream or something.

+1, I think the hike in fees is quite high. But I have more problem with your discount levels (not counting your definition of "market maker") your top tier requires $20million in transactions in 30 days, that's close to $1m a day at current prices, what happens if BTC reach $1500 or more?. Maybe it's feasible in the future when there are more market participants on your exchange and have better liquidity but no way feasible in current conditions.

I hope you could at least review your discount levels a bit. Thanks

[Timetwister]

As much as i welcome this decision this approach bothers me a lot. I guess you're not big enough to care at this point, but i think there should be full disclosure every time there's a policy change. Don't get me wrong i want to see him burned too, but I'd feel much more confident in the professionalism of the exchange if stuff like this was posted on front page or at least in the terms of service and maybe emailed out. Figuring things out as you're hacking through things doesn't instill much confidence or trust to commit big amounts. I'd hate to be on the receiving side of things next time you switch things around that would effect me 

+1

[Ichthyo]

+1, I think the hike in fees is quite high.

Just to defend Bitfinex a bit: 0.15% is still the lowest (correct me if I am wrong) alternative that I know of.

But they seem to be "doing it wrong":
...
Doing it right would mean that more customers give less overhead and cheaper prices.
...
One explanation, though, would be that this high influx of new users give high one-time investment costs which are all taken at once

Even that is a simplified view of running a business.
The most relevant part your argument misses is to account for all kinds of debt.
Especially when you "bootstrap" a business, this situation is far from the equilibrium. The charges you can take are basically dictated from external circumstances, plus typically you need to attack the competition. Then, as the organisation grows, you start accumulating organisational debts and you start accumulating technical debt. If you want to survive, you're bound to create increased income either/or by expanding into new areas or markets and by rationalisation. This additional revenue typically goes towards the pay of debts.

Additionally, every growth incurs an increase in entropy, which means, the more you grow, the more you have to fight for revenue through rationalisation. A classical example is the difficulty for a startup funder to delegate and "let go" at the point when (s)he can't manage everything alone anymore -- which often results in an outburst of "internal politics" (and even kills a lot of successful start-ups) Thus, personally I would not expect rationalisation gains to be passed on to the customer, with the exception of very old and stable enterprises. Or as a marketing gag.

Unfortunately most people's knowledge about running a business is shaped by the images and misconceptions fabricated by the marketing departments of our industry. Which are clean and slick and not especially related to reality.

[liexel]

i suppose this is something i can try to find out from the posts before this... but the thread is so long.. how worried or assured should i be when leaving money on the exchange? they might be there for a while until my market orders get filled.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

...probably as a measure against the auto-renew bug...

What bug? That'd explain why it's gone

Auto-renewal occasionally increased your liquidity offers above the amount of deposited money.

+1, I think the hike in fees is quite high. But I have more problem with your discount levels (not counting your definition of "market maker") your top tier requires $20million in transactions in 30 days, that's close to $1m a day at current prices, what happens if BTC reach $1500 or more?. Maybe it's feasible in the future when there are more market participants on your exchange and have better liquidity but no way feasible in current conditions.
I hope you could at least review your discount levels a bit. Thanks

Discount levels based on dollar amount make more sense to me too, but even at the highest rate 0.15% is a pretty sweet deal compared to the competition.

[nmersulypnem]

Auto-renewal occasionally increased your liquidity offers above the amount of deposited money.

I've noticed another bug that may be underpaying swap payments...  I had two pieces of credit taken over night, but the two notice emails had different interest rates.  One was listed at the daily rate, the other at the yearly rate.  The inconsistency (which I've seen before) makes me concerned that interest is not being correctly calculated on the back end if there are two different versions of the code in production (notice the timezones are different indicating these messages were generated by different app servers).   Unfortunately, there's no easy way I can't calculate if the swap payments are correct because the "notify when offer is taken" for autorenew doesn't seem to work so not all transactions are being logged in my email - and of course there's no swap history on the website.

Example #1...
Your credit #396599 has been closed at: January 13, 2014 - 04:26:20 AM GMT.
Details:
Currency:   USD
Rate:   0.4449%
Open on:   Jan 13 04:26 AM
Amount:   532.0

Example #2...
Your credit #392658 has been closed at: January 12, 2014 - 12:54:13 AM UTC.
Details:
Currency:   USD
Rate:   218.6%
Open on:   Jan 12 12:54 AM
Amount:   1000.0

[MegaKill]

can't access the site now, anybody has same issue?

edit:its able to access again, wonder why

[TwinWinNerD]

can't access the site now, anybody has same issue?

edit:its able to access again, wonder why

I can access it, no problems.

[Sukrim]

(notice the timezones are different indicating these messages were generated by different app servers)

Yeah, on the other hand GMT and UTC are the same time zone, might be an older loan with the yearly percentage still in place that expired?

I still have "interest" in older ledger entries, newer ones only state "Swap payment" - there might be some overlap of terminology.

[nmersulypnem]

(notice the timezones are different indicating these messages were generated by different app servers)

Yeah, on the other hand GMT and UTC are the same time zone, might be an older loan with the yearly percentage still in place that expired?

I still have "interest" in older ledger entries, newer ones only state "Swap payment" - there might be some overlap of terminology.

The loans were issued and repaid *hours* apart.  The issue I'm worried about is different versions of Bitfinex code running on different servers.   ...and obviously whether or not I'm be accurately paid for my risk.

[skovbitcoin]

Has anyone had any experience of accessing the API via C++. I have zero experience with js or python, but am fine with C++ and would like to access the data using the API? Even some code to literally print the bid and ask price would be a tremendously helpful starting point for me

Thanks

[gizmoh]

Auto-renewal occasionally increased your liquidity offers above the amount of deposited money.

I've noticed another bug that may be underpaying swap payments...  I had two pieces of credit taken over night, but the two notice emails had different interest rates.  One was listed at the daily rate, the other at the yearly rate.  The inconsistency (which I've seen before) makes me concerned that interest is not being correctly calculated on the back end if there are two different versions of the code in production (notice the timezones are different indicating these messages were generated by different app servers).   Unfortunately, there's no easy way I can't calculate if the swap payments are correct because the "notify when offer is taken" for autorenew doesn't seem to work so not all transactions are being logged in my email - and of course there's no swap history on the website.

Example #1...
Your credit #396599 has been closed at: January 13, 2014 - 04:26:20 AM GMT.
Details:
Currency:   USD
Rate:   0.4449%
Open on:   Jan 13 04:26 AM
Amount:   532.0

Example #2...
Your credit #392658 has been closed at: January 12, 2014 - 12:54:13 AM UTC.
Details:
Currency:   USD
Rate:   218.6%
Open on:   Jan 12 12:54 AM
Amount:   1000.0

Adding an "Interest Paid" column for each loan closed, would help for accountability. And having those details reflect in History as "Closed Offers".

[nmersulypnem]

Adding an "Interest Paid" column for each loan closed, would help for accountability. And having those details reflect in History as "Closed Offers".

Exactly.  To be honest, I'm still not sure when I accrue interest payments.  Is it every day, or only the day when the position is closed?

[sleger]

Exactly.  To be honest, I'm still not sure when I accrue interest payments.  Is it every day, or only the day when the position is closed?

Interests are paid daily to your deposit wallet.