[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[superbit]

I'd still like to see things linked to another exchange just in case of a flash crash again.  I understand the funds getting trapped in Gox issue, but couldn't it be implemented with higher trading fees.  High enough that it would never get used from the regular order book, but in case of a major problem paying higher fees is better then BTC selling at $60 when you tried to get out at $80.

[Ente]

I'd still like to see things linked to another exchange just in case of a flash crash again.  I understand the funds getting trapped in Gox issue, but couldn't it be implemented with higher trading fees.  High enough that it would never get used from the regular order book, but in case of a major problem paying higher fees is better then BTC selling at $60 when you tried to get out at $80.

Should MtGox stop transferring Bitcoins or fiat altogether, BitFinex would face big trouble. I would prefer it any other way too, but wouldn't want to touch MtGox with a two meter stick at this point.

Then, I guess it would have huge implications to have several exchanges connected at BitFinex. This would be an instant arbitrage "pressure relief valve", which probably create huge fiat- and Bitcoinstreams permanently moving from one exchange to the other(s) in the background. With all the trouble showing up at the Bitcoin-fiat-connections - no idea what would happen here..

Ente

[urwhatuknow]

I'd still like to see things linked to another exchange just in case of a flash crash again.  I understand the funds getting trapped in Gox issue, but couldn't it be implemented with higher trading fees.  High enough that it would never get used from the regular order book, but in case of a major problem paying higher fees is better then BTC selling at $60 when you tried to get out at $80.

Should MtGox stop transferring Bitcoins or fiat altogether, BitFinex would face big trouble. I would prefer it any other way too, but wouldn't want to touch MtGox with a two meter stick at this point.

Then, I guess it would have huge implications to have several exchanges connected at BitFinex. This would be an instant arbitrage "pressure relief valve", which probably create huge fiat- and Bitcoinstreams permanently moving from one exchange to the other(s) in the background. With all the trouble showing up at the Bitcoin-fiat-connections - no idea what would happen here..

Ente

Guys

we would love to be able to give to our customers a thicker order book and better liquidity by offering another option ( even several other wouldn't be bad ) apart for Bitstamp.
But, as we care a lot about the safety of our customers' funds, we are not willing to take any risk when it comes to this.

In order to qualify a trading website must comply in my opinion with all of the following points:

1) It must be owned and managed by honest and competent people. There must be no shadiness and a good communication between the two of us.
2) It must be allowing a good and fast flow of money in and out of it's bank account.
3) It must be located in a country that is not opposed to Bitcoin, so that the possibility of its account to get frozen gets very small.

Believe me, asking to qualify to these simple 3 points don't leave us with any viable option whatsoever.
For us more liquidity would mean a better service, more customers and more business.
More business means more money.
We miss the liquidity that Gox was giving us, but we simply believe (and we were one of the first in spotting this out) that this option is not safe for our customers' assets.
Time proved us right on this call.

Having said that we would love to be able to introduce a new platform "a la Bitstamp", but we are not aware of any qualifying for the above mentioned points.
Please let us know if you have any viable suggestion, you'll get a beer on me for that!
;-)

Thanks a lot

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[Sukrim]

VirVox, though they only trade SLL for BTC afaik.

[urwhatuknow]

VirVox, though they only trade SLL for BTC afaik.

Sukrim

we analyzed it, among various others...
No BTC/USD pair, no party.
Also their volume is much smaller than ours (they move about 10% of what we do).
It would be like squeezing a camel thru a needle eye.
We need bigger players, not smaller ones...

thank you for the suggestion anyway

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[Ente]

We need bigger players, not smaller ones...

Plan B: Become bigger yourself, attract more users and liquidity!

http://bitcoinwatch.com/ shows a list of all exchanges, sorted by volume. Bitfinex is not even in the list. It would constantly be among the top three already. I believe this would attract a lot of interest!
There is a Bitfinex API already, it shouldn't be difficult to add.

Bitcoinwatch is part of http://bitcoincharts.com/, which list the major 5 exchanges too btw. Bitcoincharts is, or at least was, from tcatm:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1659.0

Ente

[urwhatuknow]

We need bigger players, not smaller ones...

Plan B: Become bigger yourself, attract more users and liquidity!

http://bitcoinwatch.com/ shows a list of all exchanges, sorted by volume. Bitfinex is not even in the list. It would constantly be among the top three already. I believe this would attract a lot of interest!
There is a Bitfinex API already, it shouldn't be difficult to add.

Bitcoinwatch is part of http://bitcoincharts.com/, which list the major 5 exchanges too btw. Bitcoincharts is, or at least was, from tcatm:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1659.0

Ente

Ente

thank you, it sounds like a great plan.
:-)
We know we are not present on all of these trackers, but this is not due to a lack of attention,
We need to become a certified money transmitter before we start our marketing efforts.
I can't say too much about it, but let's say I'm very very very confident we will be getting good news on this within a very short time.
At Bitfinex we see our business as a marathon and we are willing to sacrifice a few days for the sake of long term growth and safety.
We know we could grow bigger by taking shortcuts, but we do not want to harm our customers assets in doing so.
I believe Bitfinex offers in this moment the best possible solution in the Bitcoin world.
We are located in a Bitcoin friendly environment and we offer unique functionalities (shorting, leverage, lowest trading fees) that can't be met anywhere else.
Last but not least we have long term plans for implementing a wide range of new services to our customers, as we believe what will count at the end of the race will be the satisfaction of our customers and not the amount of money we will have piled up.
But in order to do that we also need your help.
Please talk to the people you know and tell them you like to trade with Bitfinex.
Among other things we are thinking of launching an affiliation program that will reward people referring us to new customers and anybody interested in this should get in touch with us for more details.

There will soon be a time when we will be able to hit on the drums and tell the world we exist.
But for now I'm afraid we will just have to wait for a few more days.

Have a great day and thank you to all of our customers for the great help in supporting us

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team



  

  

[dutt]

BFX is the quiet giant of the bitcoin world. Just dropping in to say that I enjoy the site immensely. 

[superbit]

Looks as though there is some kind of glitch with the auto-lend feature right now, same funds getting loaned out every 10 minutes for one day less.

Unfilled credit demand/offers
#    Currency    Type    Amount    Rate (% per 365 days) *    Maximum lending time (days)    Placed    Auto-renew    Insure loans?    Status    Actions
163924    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    26    19 minutes ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163919    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    27    29 minutes ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163905    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    28    39 minutes ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163890    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    29    about 1 hour ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163867    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    30    about 1 hour ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163864    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    31    about 1 hour ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163858    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    32    about 1 hour ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163848    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    33    about 1 hour ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163841    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    34    about 2 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163837    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    35    about 2 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163827    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    36    about 2 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163825    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    37    about 2 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163823    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    38    about 2 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163821    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    39    about 2 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163818    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    40    about 3 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify
163815    USD    Lend Limit    12.64    68.5%    41    about 3 hours ago    Yes    No    active    Cancel   Notify

[arbitrage001]

so you guys are using bitfinex without any issues?  just wondering as  i have had an account for a while and given issues at other places, i am wary of trying out other services

No issue so far. Think I move in and out of more than 50k without any issue.

There are only four risks I see here:
1) Exchange getting too big and the owners decided to run away with the money (aka killing goose which lay the golden egg)
2) Exchange got hacked and our money is stolen (not totally in their control).
3) Interest rate rigging (from exchange owners). Not going to give further explanation on this, they probably know what I am talking about (re-hypothecation).
4) If they grow as large as Mtgox, they can probably rigged the BTC/USD exchange rate as well.


If they solve the top two issues, I can see them being even bigger than Mtgox in the future, as most people don't really care about the bottom two issues.

Hell, I wish they offer equity right now so I can be an early bird to buy some.

[SheHadMANHands]

Few stupid questions:

1) If I bought, for example, 100 bitcoin at market under "margin trading", would that be the same as a market order on Bitstamp?  Does this mean Bitfinex has an account on Bitstamp they use to then place the order?

2) Again, concerning the margin trading tab, is there a way to select the period of the loan?  My understanding is that buying on margin would automatically borrow from one of the lenders on the lending page, but many of these appear to be for only 2 day periods.  How would I know when the loan expires and what would happen at the end... would the position automatically close?

[mccoyspace]

Few stupid questions:

1) If I bought, for example, 100 bitcoin at market under "margin trading", would that be the same as a market order on Bitstamp?  Does this mean Bitfinex has an account on Bitstamp they use to then place the order?

2) Again, concerning the margin trading tab, is there a way to select the period of the loan?  My understanding is that buying on margin would automatically borrow from one of the lenders on the lending page, but many of these appear to be for only 2 day periods.  How would I know when the loan expires and what would happen at the end... would the position automatically close?

re: #1 -- you have control over how that order is placed by selecting the routing. You can route it to either the Bitstamp exchange or the internal Bitfinex exchange, or both (which is the default option). Then you can determine if it is a market or limit order on those exchanges. But yes Bitfinex has a big account on bitstamp and that is what ultimately runs your order if you fulfill it on Bitstamp. In that sense Bitfinex is a meta-exchange (but not so if you route it internally).

re: #2 -- The loan period is determined on the order you do it. For example, you could go on the lending page and borrow money. You would decide exactly what loans you take, for how much and for how long. If you have money already borrowed, then your margin trades use that loan money, so you know exactly what the terms are.  If you go to the margin page first and run some trade, then you are asking the system to go out and secure loans for that trade as you need them for the trades your are doing. In that case you can set the loan durations and the maximum interest rates you will consider when you make the trade. If those criteria can be met from the existing loan providers, then your trade (and loan) will go through.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

little bug? --> "Renew Loan" on an outstanding loan requires 2 attempts at the moment, first it says 'blablabla will not be renewed', then the second time it works.

Autorenew from the initiation of the loan might be somewhat buggy too, but I am not 100% sure of that.

[SheHadMANHands]

Few stupid questions:

1) If I bought, for example, 100 bitcoin at market under "margin trading", would that be the same as a market order on Bitstamp?  Does this mean Bitfinex has an account on Bitstamp they use to then place the order?

2) Again, concerning the margin trading tab, is there a way to select the period of the loan?  My understanding is that buying on margin would automatically borrow from one of the lenders on the lending page, but many of these appear to be for only 2 day periods.  How would I know when the loan expires and what would happen at the end... would the position automatically close?

re: #1 -- you have control over how that order is placed by selecting the routing. You can route it to either the Bitstamp exchange or the internal Bitfinex exchange, or both (which is the default option). Then you can determine if it is a market or limit order on those exchanges. But yes Bitfinex has a big account on bitstamp and that is what ultimately runs your order if you fulfill it on Bitstamp. In that sense Bitfinex is a meta-exchange (but not so if you route it internally).

re: #2 -- The loan period is determined on the order you do it. For example, you could go on the lending page and borrow money. You would decide exactly what loans you take, for how much and for how long. If you have money already borrowed, then your margin trades use that loan money, so you know exactly what the terms are.  If you go to the margin page first and run some trade, then you are asking the system to go out and secure loans for that trade as you need them for the trades your are doing. In that case you can set the loan durations and the maximum interest rates you will consider when you make the trade. If those criteria can be met from the existing loan providers, then your trade (and loan) will go through.

Thank you.

What happens if I deposited 10 bitcoins, purchased 15 bitcoins then on margin, and the price dropped ~66%> ?  At that point the loan could not be covered by my deposit, so would the position automatically close?

I deposited 0.10 bitcoin just to play around, and purchased 0.15 on margin as a test.  Here's what I see:


I assume this is who the funds were borrowed from:


Will the position auto close then if I don't before that expiration?  If I close the loan on this page, does it auto sell at market?

[Ente]

Thank you.

What happens if I deposited 10 bitcoins, purchased 15 bitcoins then on margin, and the price dropped ~66%> ?  At that point the loan could not be covered by my deposit, so would the position automatically close?

I deposited 0.10 bitcoin just to play around, and purchased 0.15 on margin as a test.  Here's what I see:
https://i.imgur.com/9RsYrf6.png

I assume this is who the funds were borrowed from:
https://i.imgur.com/D3CApnv.png

Will the position auto close then if I don't before that expiration?  If I close the loan on this page, does it auto sell at market?

Yes and yes.
As a third option, you can loan USD (in your case) directly in that "lending" window. These new funds are visible at "unused borrowed funds". You then can close individual positions in "borrowed funds used in a margin position" and those closed funds are immediately replaced by the until-then unused funds. With that you can change the rate (from variable to fixed, or to a lower fixed one) and the maximum lending time.
Probably that's all obvious, but since we are playing with money here, saying it twice can't hurt ;-)

Ente

[capoeira]

One-Cancels-the-Other orders would be a big plus


also "one-triggers-the-other" orders. for example: a stop loss order is only set after a stup but order is triggered

[mccoyspace]

One-Cancels-the-Other orders would be a big plus


also "one-triggers-the-other" orders. for example: a stop loss order is only set after a stup but order is triggered

+1 on one cancels the other.

[Ente]

A few times I put up "borrow offers", where I meant to put up "lending offers". Did I accidently choose the wrong drop-down entry? May very well happen from time to time. Or did anyone experience similar things? Maybe three times now, in the last one, two weeks. Never happened before.

I observed that behavior a few more times since then.
I doublechecked that I am in "lend" mode, enter amount and time, hit the button and a "borrow" offer shows up.
Some times I even got a "not enough available funds to lend" message, changed the amount, and a "borrow" offer showed up instead.

What is "autolend", anyway? Automatically re-creating lend offers at "market"?

Ente

[Sukrim]

Autolend automatically creates lending offers with any balance that is not yet lent out or in an offer. You can specify either VIR or a percentage rate.

Also it seems to cancel existing offers and recreates them at the autolend rate you set, I'm not sure if this has changed since I last checked. It won't lend out at market rates, it creates limit offers.

[Ente]

Autolend automatically creates lending offers with any balance that is not yet lent out or in an offer. You can specify either VIR or a percentage rate.

Also it seems to cancel existing offers and recreates them at the autolend rate you set, I'm not sure if this has changed since I last checked. It won't lend out at market rates, it creates limit offers.

Uhum.
Then what's the difference to "lend with auto-renew" then? Here, this creates exactly the same offer again when the lending ran out or was closed.

Ente