Ente
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February 28, 2014, 01:40:17 PM |
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hi bitfinex.. i know once your hot wallet gets empty, u guys will refill it up with your cold wallet... do u guys have only 1 cold wallet or many? from what i know once a cold wallet is activated online there is risk! and then the cold wallet becomes a hot wallet too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzwWIDIVSTo I don't think you do really understand how Bitcoin works or what hot/cold wallet means... the only thing that changes after the first transaction out of a cold wallet is that the public key of that address is now known. As long as you trust in ECDSA, this is not really an issue. Also it is easy to see (if you look at where the transactions to the hot wallet come from) if they use a single address or several ones.
He does have a point, that when you import your formerly offline/cold wallet in an online system, that wallet isn't cold anymore. Of course you can use a better system, like Armory for example, where the signing of the transaction happens offline too. Yes, I like the idea to have "one time" offline addresses. Create a ton of those offline, fill them over the time, and transfer funds to the hot wallet when needed. Without reusing such a spent cold address later. With the way BitFinex handles things, I expect them to have a sophisticated and very secure way of transferring to and from a cold wallet. Ente |
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urwhatuknow
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CAT.EX Exchange
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February 28, 2014, 04:35:33 PM |
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i know once your hot wallet gets empty, u guys will refill it up with your cold wallet... do u guys have only 1 cold wallet or many? from what i know once a cold wallet is activated online there is risk! and then the cold wallet becomes a hot wallet too I'll leave it up to Bitfinex to give an official statement on this and the safety of the Bitcoins. I'll just share this: I know for a fact it's both offline and multisig. We have multiple offline cold wallets, so that what allegedly happened to MtGox will never happen to us (i.e. we will never "discover" one day all the coins are gone). Thanks a lot and have a good day Giancarlo Bitfinex Team |
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flower1024
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February 28, 2014, 04:45:42 PM |
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i know once your hot wallet gets empty, u guys will refill it up with your cold wallet... do u guys have only 1 cold wallet or many? from what i know once a cold wallet is activated online there is risk! and then the cold wallet becomes a hot wallet too I'll leave it up to Bitfinex to give an official statement on this and the safety of the Bitcoins. I'll just share this: I know for a fact it's both offline and multisig. We have multiple offline cold wallets, so that what allegedly happened to MtGox will never happen to us (i.e. we will never "discover" one day all the coins are gone). Thanks a lot and have a good day Giancarlo Bitfinex Team what do you think about gmaxwells proposal how an exchange can proof it has the coins? its more difficult in your case, as you have also funds in bitstamp: but they have commited themselve to provide such a proof so it should be possible for you also. gmaxwells proposal does not reveal how much user you have or how much fund an user owns. |
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Sawadekub
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February 28, 2014, 04:56:19 PM |
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i know once your hot wallet gets empty, u guys will refill it up with your cold wallet... do u guys have only 1 cold wallet or many? from what i know once a cold wallet is activated online there is risk! and then the cold wallet becomes a hot wallet too I'll leave it up to Bitfinex to give an official statement on this and the safety of the Bitcoins. I'll just share this: I know for a fact it's both offline and multisig. We have multiple offline cold wallets, so that what allegedly happened to MtGox will never happen to us (i.e. we will never "discover" one day all the coins are gone). Thanks a lot and have a good day Giancarlo Bitfinex Team what do you think about gmaxwells proposal how an exchange can proof it has the coins? its more difficult in your case, as you have also funds in bitstamp: but they have commited themselve to provide such a proof so it should be possible for you also. gmaxwells proposal does not reveal how much user you have or how much fund an user owns. can u provide a link? i wanna read up on it thanks.. |
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flower1024
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February 28, 2014, 05:05:18 PM |
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what do you think about gmaxwells proposal how an exchange can proof it has the coins?
its more difficult in your case, as you have also funds in bitstamp: but they have commited themselve to provide such a proof so it should be possible for you also.
gmaxwells proposal does not reveal how much user you have or how much fund an user owns.
can u provide a link? i wanna read up on it thanks.. "In order to re-establish the trust squandered by the failings of Mt. Gox, responsible bitcoin exchanges are working together and are committed to the future of bitcoin and the security of all customer funds. As part of the effort to re-assure customers, the following services will be coordinating efforts over the coming days to publicly reassure customers and the general public that all funds continue to be held in a safe and secure manner: Coinbase, Kraken, BitStamp, Circle, and BTC China." |
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Sawadekub
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February 28, 2014, 05:18:33 PM |
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what do you think about gmaxwells proposal how an exchange can proof it has the coins?
its more difficult in your case, as you have also funds in bitstamp: but they have commited themselve to provide such a proof so it should be possible for you also.
gmaxwells proposal does not reveal how much user you have or how much fund an user owns.
can u provide a link? i wanna read up on it thanks.. "In order to re-establish the trust squandered by the failings of Mt. Gox, responsible bitcoin exchanges are working together and are committed to the future of bitcoin and the security of all customer funds. As part of the effort to re-assure customers, the following services will be coordinating efforts over the coming days to publicly reassure customers and the general public that all funds continue to be held in a safe and secure manner: Coinbase, Kraken, BitStamp, Circle, and BTC China." looks like bitfinex is not in da list.. are we seeing any proof over here? |
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urwhatuknow
Sr. Member
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Activity: 446
Merit: 250
CAT.EX Exchange
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February 28, 2014, 05:28:57 PM |
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i know once your hot wallet gets empty, u guys will refill it up with your cold wallet... do u guys have only 1 cold wallet or many? from what i know once a cold wallet is activated online there is risk! and then the cold wallet becomes a hot wallet too I'll leave it up to Bitfinex to give an official statement on this and the safety of the Bitcoins. I'll just share this: I know for a fact it's both offline and multisig. We have multiple offline cold wallets, so that what allegedly happened to MtGox will never happen to us (i.e. we will never "discover" one day all the coins are gone). Thanks a lot and have a good day Giancarlo Bitfinex Team what do you think about gmaxwells proposal how an exchange can proof it has the coins? its more difficult in your case, as you have also funds in bitstamp: but they have commited themselve to provide such a proof so it should be possible for you also. gmaxwells proposal does not reveal how much user you have or how much fund an user owns. we are evaluating different proposals and ideas, but at the end of the day if we implement a system it must make sense. To prove we have access to a certain amount of coins doesn't mean anything. How can each of you be sure about the total number of coins we say we have on behalf of our customers? Every customer just knows how many coins he has, but can never be sure of what is the total we claim. Is seems easier than what it really is..... Any suggestion is as usual more than welcome Giancarlo Bitfinex Team |
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BitCoinNutJob
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Activity: 1316
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February 28, 2014, 05:33:33 PM |
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proving large amounts of coins owned by an exchange is always nice to know even if we cant know the exact total
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Rannasha
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February 28, 2014, 05:37:18 PM |
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i know once your hot wallet gets empty, u guys will refill it up with your cold wallet... do u guys have only 1 cold wallet or many? from what i know once a cold wallet is activated online there is risk! and then the cold wallet becomes a hot wallet too I'll leave it up to Bitfinex to give an official statement on this and the safety of the Bitcoins. I'll just share this: I know for a fact it's both offline and multisig. We have multiple offline cold wallets, so that what allegedly happened to MtGox will never happen to us (i.e. we will never "discover" one day all the coins are gone). Thanks a lot and have a good day Giancarlo Bitfinex Team what do you think about gmaxwells proposal how an exchange can proof it has the coins? its more difficult in your case, as you have also funds in bitstamp: but they have commited themselve to provide such a proof so it should be possible for you also. gmaxwells proposal does not reveal how much user you have or how much fund an user owns. we are evaluating different proposals and ideas, but at the end of the day if we implement a system it must make sense. To prove we have access to a certain amount of coins doesn't mean anything. How can each of you be sure about the total number of coins we say we have on behalf of our customers? Every customer just knows how many coins he has, but can never be sure of what is the total we claim. Is seems easier than what it really is..... Any suggestion is as usual more than welcome Giancarlo Bitfinex Team How about something like this: https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof ? |
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Spaceman_Spiff
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Activity: 1638
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₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
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February 28, 2014, 06:31:46 PM |
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i know once your hot wallet gets empty, u guys will refill it up with your cold wallet... do u guys have only 1 cold wallet or many? from what i know once a cold wallet is activated online there is risk! and then the cold wallet becomes a hot wallet too I'll leave it up to Bitfinex to give an official statement on this and the safety of the Bitcoins. I'll just share this: I know for a fact it's both offline and multisig. We have multiple offline cold wallets, so that what allegedly happened to MtGox will never happen to us (i.e. we will never "discover" one day all the coins are gone). Thanks a lot and have a good day Giancarlo Bitfinex Team what do you think about gmaxwells proposal how an exchange can proof it has the coins? its more difficult in your case, as you have also funds in bitstamp: but they have commited themselve to provide such a proof so it should be possible for you also. gmaxwells proposal does not reveal how much user you have or how much fund an user owns. we are evaluating different proposals and ideas, but at the end of the day if we implement a system it must make sense. To prove we have access to a certain amount of coins doesn't mean anything. How can each of you be sure about the total number of coins we say we have on behalf of our customers? Every customer just knows how many coins he has, but can never be sure of what is the total we claim. Is seems easier than what it really is..... Any suggestion is as usual more than welcome Giancarlo Bitfinex Team Make a anonymized user list (I'll explain this below), publically post this list of users and their btc account balance, then sign messages to prove ownership of cold wallets. The total amount of coins in your wallets should match the total amount of coins on the list. Everybody can see their anonymized name in the list, and thus feels confident that he/she is included, and that the company has the funds. Now the anonymization part: let users chose a password for the public balance, hash that password (or perhaps the concatenation of the username and that password to ensure that a certain combination doesn't occur twice), and use that hash as the username. You could also give users the option to split their account into several anonymized usernames, if they don't like it that their total btc number is shown publically. |
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flower1024
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February 28, 2014, 06:34:11 PM |
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Make a anonymized user list (I'll explain this below), publically post this list of users and their btc account balance, then sign messages to prove ownership of cold wallets. The total amount of coins in your wallets should match the total amount of coins on the list. Everybody can see their anonymized name in the list, and thus feels confident that he/she is included, and that the company has the funds.
Now the anonymization part: let users chose a password for the public balance, hash that password (or perhaps the concatenation of the username and that password to ensure that a certain combination doesn't occur twice), and use that hash as the username. You could also give users the option to split their account into several anonymized usernames, if they don't like it that their total btc number is shown publically.
at least for the exchange and trade wallet this should be possible (and done by every exchange). borrowed funds can be at bitstamp: i dont know how to proof that. |
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Sukrim
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February 28, 2014, 07:35:49 PM |
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Make a anonymized user list (I'll explain this below), publically post this list of users and their btc account balance, then sign messages to prove ownership of cold wallets.
Anonymized or not, they could simply lie - as long as some users are not checking that they are actually on that list and verify their amounts Bitfinex might get away with leaving out somebody... However, yes, a list with some kind of hash (so I can use information I have to see which balance belongs to my account) and a balance attached for every account would be a great first step to see how many BTC/LTC/USD are actually deposited on Bitfinex in total. |
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Ente
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February 28, 2014, 07:37:17 PM |
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Make a anonymized user list (I'll explain this below), publically post this list of users and their btc account balance, then sign messages to prove ownership of cold wallets. The total amount of coins in your wallets should match the total amount of coins on the list. Everybody can see their anonymized name in the list, and thus feels confident that he/she is included, and that the company has the funds.
Now the anonymization part: let users chose a password for the public balance, hash that password (or perhaps the concatenation of the username and that password to ensure that a certain combination doesn't occur twice), and use that hash as the username. You could also give users the option to split their account into several anonymized usernames, if they don't like it that their total btc number is shown publically.
That's actually a good idea. I don't know how comfortable an exchange is to publish the exact number of users and bitcoins, but besides that, this looks good. Ente |
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Ente
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February 28, 2014, 07:38:52 PM |
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Make a anonymized user list (I'll explain this below), publically post this list of users and their btc account balance, then sign messages to prove ownership of cold wallets.
Anonymized or not, they could simply lie - as long as some users are not checking that they are actually on that list and verify their amounts Bitfinex might get away with leaving out somebody... However, yes, a list with some kind of hash (so I can use information I have to see which balance belongs to my account) and a balance attached for every account would be a great first step to see how many BTC/LTC/USD are actually deposited on Bitfinex in total. If an exchange cheats on a large scale, this will be noticed. The more users they ommit, the more likely to be noticed. And imagine the shitstorm when that is discovered.. Nah, an exchange would rather not publish anything than fake the list. Ente |
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xyzxyzxyz
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February 28, 2014, 09:13:53 PM |
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How do I move btc from trading to deposit? I have updated my account to be a deposit account.
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gog1
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February 28, 2014, 09:22:37 PM |
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since bitfinex is a meta exchange, the proof I have the coin thing could be harder to implement. At any moment, some coins can be at bitstamp.
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nmersulypnem
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February 28, 2014, 09:25:47 PM |
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How do I move btc from trading to deposit? I have updated my account to be a deposit account.
click "manage wallets" button |
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xyzxyzxyz
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February 28, 2014, 09:53:15 PM |
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How do I move btc from trading to deposit? I have updated my account to be a deposit account.
click "manage wallets" button Worked it out. thanks for your help. How do I insure my liquidity swap? |
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Sukrim
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February 28, 2014, 09:59:25 PM |
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since bitfinex is a meta exchange, the proof I have the coin thing could be harder to implement. At any moment, some coins can be at bitstamp.
They could announce that e.g. on May 1st they will be down for auditing and maintenance for 24 hours and no positions are allowed to be opened on this date or longer. Actually one day downtime every quarter to check if their books actually do balance and so on would make me more confident than the inconvenience this would of course cause. Also it happened more than once that funds ran out on Bitstamp (though mostly USD, not BTC) without causing too much problems - if pre-announced, once withdrawing from and asap replenishing the Bitstamp wallet should not be too much of a hassle? Since you can send back coins as soon as you know the transaction, you'd only have to wait for 7 confirmations (~1 hour) anyways - Bitfinex might even be able to cover this time with their own funds in the meantime. How do I move btc from trading to deposit? I have updated my account to be a deposit account.
click "manage wallets" button Worked it out. thanks for your help. How do I insure my liquidity swap? Click on Options when creating your offer and select if you want it insured, insured if there is some insurance liquidity left or (default) uninsured. |
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