[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[Sukrim]

Seems like some weird idea they have of being more "legal" by calling "USD lent out" "liquidity swap contracts at 1 USD per piece provided"...
*shrug*
As long as it helps?

[1715614282]

1715614282

[1715614282]

1715614282

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Seems like some weird idea they have of being more "legal" by calling "USD lent out" "liquidity swap contracts at 1 USD per piece provided"...
*shrug*
As long as it helps?

Seems very likely to me as well.  They are probably just making the nomenclature more legally correct.

[DoubleSwapper]

I understand now. Interesting perspective. I know that Bitfinex has changed its nomenclature in regard of liquidity swaps multiple times from lending to CFD etc. Especially when people pointed out that a classical loan with a certain amount of interest was unlawful. Instead of lending out 10k I now provide 10.000 swap contracts of 1 dollar each. Haha.

[wilfried]

As I am mainly operating as a liquidity provider on your platform I have noticed that a third column was added to the "offer swap" tab with the description of "Nb of swap contracts (of 1 $ each)".

It's just a ridiculous way of saying "Amount". You want to lend out $1000 you type 1000 in that field "and offer 1000 swap contracts of $1 each". I am guessing there could be legal reasons for putting it like that? Regardless, just read "Nb of swap contracts" as "Amount" and put an amount of USD there.

only thing i can imagine why they renamed it is that they wanna be sure everyone realizes that the lending can lead to multiple borrowers so that they get multiple fees but the lender gets the same intereset disregarding the number of borrowers

[nrd525]

The "NB of" is redundant.

You don't need to say "number of" every time you give a number =)

[medicine]

Do you really have to get documents notarised to get a verified account at Bitfinex?

I didn't need to have any documents notarized and I was verified about a month ago.

[whatthesith]

Seems like some weird idea they have of being more "legal" by calling "USD lent out" "liquidity swap contracts at 1 USD per piece provided"...
*shrug*
As long as it helps?

Seems very likely to me as well.  They are probably just making the nomenclature more legally correct.

Yes. Because we cannot lend with more than 60% p.a., and it is not legal in Hong Kong.

http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_ind.nsf/E1BF50C09A33D3DC482564840019D2F4/7A1D9A8CC7BE0B3088256489000BA426

So we must have believed in that it is a CFD.

[medicine]

Seems like some weird idea they have of being more "legal" by calling "USD lent out" "liquidity swap contracts at 1 USD per piece provided"...
*shrug*
As long as it helps?

Seems very likely to me as well.  They are probably just making the nomenclature more legally correct.

Yes. Because we cannot lend with more than 60% p.a., and it is not legal in Hong Kong.

http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_ind.nsf/E1BF50C09A33D3DC482564840019D2F4/7A1D9A8CC7BE0B3088256489000BA426

So we must have believed in that it is a CFD.

This info is quite useful, and 60% p.a. is 0.164% per day.  One thought that crossed my mind is should I lend below this rate to try and keep myself under the legal limit.
I am guessing if the Hong Kong authorities decided to take action against Bitfinex they wold just shut them down completely and everyone would be in the same boat whether they were lending funds out or not.

[whatthesith]

Seems like some weird idea they have of being more "legal" by calling "USD lent out" "liquidity swap contracts at 1 USD per piece provided"...
*shrug*
As long as it helps?

Seems very likely to me as well.  They are probably just making the nomenclature more legally correct.

Yes. Because we cannot lend with more than 60% p.a., and it is not legal in Hong Kong.

http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_ind.nsf/E1BF50C09A33D3DC482564840019D2F4/7A1D9A8CC7BE0B3088256489000BA426

So we must have believed in that it is a CFD.

This info is quite useful, and 60% p.a. is 0.164% per day.  One thought that crossed my mind is should I lend below this rate to try and keep myself under the legal limit.
I am guessing if the Hong Kong authorities decided to take action against Bitfinex they wold just shut them down completely and everyone would be in the same boat whether they were lending funds out or not.

No need to panic for this.

As long as the "money borrower" cannot withdraw the "loan" outside Bitfinex, I doubt whether it can be classified as a lending activity.

[kb24mvp]

Yes, seriously I'm not sure why its so hard to get a reply via email

I have tried to send in multiple emails but no responses to admin and support @ bfx

I suspect the influx of former MtGox users may have something to do with the sudden longer response-times to e-mail requests. Think about it: MtGox claimed to have a million users. The real number of MtGox users was probably more like 1% of that. That's still a lot of new users to absorb for the remaining exchanges. I haven't tried sending them an e-mail the last week but I really don't want to do it just to test their response time right now as I strongly suspect they have plenty of other e-mails to get through.

Unrelated #1: https://www.bitfinex.com/representatives works again and now shows numbers (not that it mattered much, "Earned fees from user XXXXX" always showed up on the USD page).

Unrelated #2: The Bitcoin price is currently $666. I'm not saying the Bitcoin price is being manipulated by the devil. I'm not. All I am saying is that 666 is the number of the beast.

Unrelated #3: Some poor old man currently has a camp of journalists outside his home thanks to a garbage newsweek "article". I feel sorry for this old man. :-/

[The Bitstamp bitcoin exchange has reported today that third-party auditors have verified the exchange’s bitcoin balance and confirmed that the exchange held 100 percent of validated bitcoin and USD funds.]

Bitstamp Posts Results of Audit, No Problems to Report
http://kculshare.com/2014/03/bitstamp-posts-results-of-audit-no-problems-to-report/

Ok, when is it Bitfinex's turn to have third-party auditors verify their bitcoin balance ??

Have to agree with this.

Bitfinex is one of the top 5 exchanges in the world right now. Would be nice to have a trusted and verified audit done and publish the report to put everyone at ease.


Can also use the audit report as a marketing technique to gain trust.

As a top 5 exchange in the world, it would be nice to get some support, you know like response to emails?

[urwhatuknow]

Yes, seriously I'm not sure why its so hard to get a reply via email

I have tried to send in multiple emails but no responses to admin and support @ bfx

I suspect the influx of former MtGox users may have something to do with the sudden longer response-times to e-mail requests. Think about it: MtGox claimed to have a million users. The real number of MtGox users was probably more like 1% of that. That's still a lot of new users to absorb for the remaining exchanges. I haven't tried sending them an e-mail the last week but I really don't want to do it just to test their response time right now as I strongly suspect they have plenty of other e-mails to get through.

Unrelated #1: https://www.bitfinex.com/representatives works again and now shows numbers (not that it mattered much, "Earned fees from user XXXXX" always showed up on the USD page).

Unrelated #2: The Bitcoin price is currently $666. I'm not saying the Bitcoin price is being manipulated by the devil. I'm not. All I am saying is that 666 is the number of the beast.

Unrelated #3: Some poor old man currently has a camp of journalists outside his home thanks to a garbage newsweek "article". I feel sorry for this old man. :-/

[The Bitstamp bitcoin exchange has reported today that third-party auditors have verified the exchange’s bitcoin balance and confirmed that the exchange held 100 percent of validated bitcoin and USD funds.]

Bitstamp Posts Results of Audit, No Problems to Report
http://kculshare.com/2014/03/bitstamp-posts-results-of-audit-no-problems-to-report/

Ok, when is it Bitfinex's turn to have third-party auditors verify their bitcoin balance ??

Have to agree with this.

Bitfinex is one of the top 5 exchanges in the world right now. Would be nice to have a trusted and verified audit done and publish the report to put everyone at ease.


Can also use the audit report as a marketing technique to gain trust.

As a top 5 exchange in the world, it would be nice to get some support, you know like response to emails?

Let me try to understand what you think it is a valid proof of evidence....
Writing that some non specified "third party" audited our numbers and found nothing wrong with them is something what will re-assure you about our honesty?
Don't you think that a statement like this is actually as good as the person writing it?
But if the person that writes it is worth your trust, what sense does it make to ask him to state something like this?

Maybe I'm trying to find a logic in something completely illogical (or I'm just really stupid) but I can't give a rational sense to a request like this.

Finally if you had unanswered emails from support on important topics please PM them to me and I'll take care of it.

Thank you and have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[MustMan]

Let me try to understand what you think it is a valid proof of evidence....
Writing that some non specified "third party" audited our numbers and found nothing wrong with them is something what will re-assure you about our honesty?
Don't you think that a statement like this is actually as good as the person writing it?
But if the person that writes it is worth your trust, what sense does it make to ask him to state something like this?

Maybe I'm trying to find a logic in something completely illogical (or I'm just really stupid) but I can't give a rational sense to a request like this.

Finally if you had unanswered emails from support on important topics please PM them to me and I'll take care of it.

Thank you and have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Firstly, sorry for my bad English if not properly expressing as that is not my native language.

Let's take aside "third party" issue first, since that is only your choice of "to do or not to do" despite any reason or reasoning you could add on it.

Let's get things straight.
If a guy send you a email ,he didn't get response for long time ,you could say maybe it was missing during sending.
If a guy send you multiple emails and get no responses at all for long long time, you could say maybe that is their mail sever problem .
But when more and more guys complaining about long response times to e-mail support, definitively that is your problem !

Your intention is good for letting us to PM you but not good for Bitfinex support, sure course we can "PM you" here on "important topics" ,But what good for Bitfinex support to earn customer trust when just a few people here compare to huge amount customer on Bitfinex offical website ?

Any customer's mail is important for them no matter whether you think or judge it "important" or not !

When your customer's service couldn't accomodate so much customer volume, why not hire more enough people to handle this or just temporarily stop new account application until you have enough capability to handle customer's service ??

Failure customer's service is harmful to customer's trust on any business.

Furthermore ,to what extent can we trust Bitfinex especially when we can't find any Tel no. or any Address of where Bitfinex is located on Bitfinex website ?

Maybe I'm trying to find a logic explanation in Bitfinex's completely illogical in order to trust Bitfinex enough !?

[arbitrage001]

Let me try to understand what you think it is a valid proof of evidence....
Writing that some non specified "third party" audited our numbers and found nothing wrong with them is something what will re-assure you about our honesty?
Don't you think that a statement like this is actually as good as the person writing it?
But if the person that writes it is worth your trust, what sense does it make to ask him to state something like this?

Maybe I'm trying to find a logic in something completely illogical (or I'm just really stupid) but I can't give a rational sense to a request like this.

Finally if you had unanswered emails from support on important topics please PM them to me and I'll take care of it.

Thank you and have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Arrogance at its best.

Best of luck to your company.

[Sawadekub]

hi R & G
 can u guys make a html page whereby our username forexample bitfinex(ID for today is :833333 time and date stamp)

part 1
so the html page user 833333 will have all their details including time and datestamp for eg.. user id 833333 timestamp:xxx total btc xxx total ltc xxx total fiat xxx total btc + ltc + fiat
in this case we can actually check ourself if our own amounts are correct.. if anyperson check and their amounts are fake.. they can print screen and show the world.. and if its true then yes u guys have already much proven that the amount is correct.. as for the hotwallet and cold wallet..



part 2 btc and ltc screen auto refresh every 5 mins got time stamp in blockcghain
maybe u guys can have a web view of the  computer screen as in physical screen to your wallet address in block chain..then using a market or a paper u guys can block some part opf the address... which means.. u need to buy a screen for each wallet u guys have.. but masking out   part of address, masking out part is to make sure that u guys have a own unique wallet not wallet from mount gox or huobi wallet..
so example if the user have 1mil bitcoin.. but your cold and hot wallet add up to 500k = means that smt is suspicious.. but if your hot and cold wallet have 980k to 990k++ then its seems still ok..

part 3 for fiats amount (letting ppl know how much that is in your bank and the full account number does not compromise the company $ unless he can hack a bank)
using the physical screen.. login to the ibanking of bitfinex bank account i dont care how many just show all in live cam.. also auto refresh and there is a date stamp too i guess in everybanking system..and letting as see a webpage using a live camera pointing to the screen in clear view...


by doing part 1, we check our own amount and if its correct its good but not enough proof so we proceed to part 2 live camera in front of your hot wallet and cold wallet, u can mask address but not all and lastly a live camera poling to your lcd screen to show us amount of how many banks u guys have.. lets give a + - xxxk if the amount exceeds that means there MIGHT BE A FRAUD..


and well do not tell us that ELECTRICITY is expensive because if u dare to do all this, u guys should have more people coming to bitfinex and u guys earn the commission.. its a win win situation unless u guys wanna keep something hiding from us..


what do u guys think of my idea?? good or bad.. if good pls help me promote it... sorry for bad english... and why i choose live cam instead of live pic because life camera hard to modify and u can even put a fighting fish in a jar beside your desk to show us that ITS REALLY REALLY REALLY LIVE!!!!  because the fish will be swimming and what the fish does is not systematic..

[MustMan]

Let me try to understand what you think it is a valid proof of evidence....
Writing that some non specified "third party" audited our numbers and found nothing wrong with them is something what will re-assure you about our honesty?
Don't you think that a statement like this is actually as good as the person writing it?
But if the person that writes it is worth your trust, what sense does it make to ask him to state something like this?

Maybe I'm trying to find a logic in something completely illogical (or I'm just really stupid) but I can't give a rational sense to a request like this.

Finally if you had unanswered emails from support on important topics please PM them to me and I'll take care of it.

Thank you and have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Arrogance at its best.

Best of luck to your company.

Arrogance is the enemy of the wisdom.

Trust is earned by action not by eloquent talking not to mention arrogant talking.

Best wish to all of our hard earned money put in Binfinex !

[Sawadekub]

hi R & G
 can u guys make a html page whereby our username forexample bitfinex(ID for today is :833333 time and date stamp)

part 1
so the html page user 833333 will have all their details including time and datestamp for eg.. user id 833333 timestamp:xxx total btc xxx total ltc xxx total fiat xxx total btc + ltc + fiat
in this case we can actually check ourself if our own amounts are correct.. if anyperson check and their amounts are fake.. they can print screen and show the world.. and if its true then yes u guys have already much proven that the amount is correct.. as for the hotwallet and cold wallet..



part 2 btc and ltc screen auto refresh every 5 mins got time stamp in blockcghain
maybe u guys can have a web view of the  computer screen as in physical screen to your wallet address in block chain..then using a market or a paper u guys can block some part opf the address... which means.. u need to buy a screen for each wallet u guys have.. but masking out   part of address, masking out part is to make sure that u guys have a own unique wallet not wallet from mount gox or huobi wallet..
so example if the user have 1mil bitcoin.. but your cold and hot wallet add up to 500k = means that smt is suspicious.. but if your hot and cold wallet have 980k to 990k++ then its seems still ok..

part 3 for fiats amount (letting ppl know how much that is in your bank and the full account number does not compromise the company $ unless he can hack a bank)
using the physical screen.. login to the ibanking of bitfinex bank account i dont care how many just show all in live cam.. also auto refresh and there is a date stamp too i guess in everybanking system..and letting as see a webpage using a live camera pointing to the screen in clear view...


by doing part 1, we check our own amount and if its correct its good but not enough proof so we proceed to part 2 live camera in front of your hot wallet and cold wallet, u can mask address but not all and lastly a live camera poling to your lcd screen to show us amount of how many banks u guys have.. lets give a + - xxxk if the amount exceeds that means there MIGHT BE A FRAUD..


and well do not tell us that ELECTRICITY is expensive because if u dare to do all this, u guys should have more people coming to bitfinex and u guys earn the commission.. its a win win situation unless u guys wanna keep something hiding from us..


what do u guys think of my idea?? good or bad.. if good pls help me promote it... sorry for bad english... and why i choose live cam instead of live pic because life camera hard to modify and u can even put a fighting fish in a jar beside your desk to show us that ITS REALLY REALLY REALLY LIVE!!!!  because the fish will be swimming and what the fish does is not systematic..

[urwhatuknow]

Let me try to understand what you think it is a valid proof of evidence....
Writing that some non specified "third party" audited our numbers and found nothing wrong with them is something what will re-assure you about our honesty?
Don't you think that a statement like this is actually as good as the person writing it?
But if the person that writes it is worth your trust, what sense does it make to ask him to state something like this?

Maybe I'm trying to find a logic in something completely illogical (or I'm just really stupid) but I can't give a rational sense to a request like this.

Finally if you had unanswered emails from support on important topics please PM them to me and I'll take care of it.

Thank you and have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Arrogance at its best.

Best of luck to your company.

I understand logic can be taken for arrogance by people that are adverse to being logical.
My post asked a very simple question:
What does a statement like the following add to being more trustworthy?

A third party (non specified) performed a check on our Bitcoins and found we actually have them.
No additional details will be given.

My point was that in order to trust a statement like this you must trust the source of the above statement.
But if you trust the source ( whose statement doesn't add any proof of evidence into the equation ) then to ask for such a statement doesn't make sense.

Call it arrogance, I call it logic.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[urwhatuknow]

hi R & G
 can u guys make a html page whereby our username forexample bitfinex(ID for today is :833333 time and date stamp)

part 1
so the html page user 833333 will have all their details including time and datestamp for eg.. user id 833333 timestamp:xxx total btc xxx total ltc xxx total fiat xxx total btc + ltc + fiat
in this case we can actually check ourself if our own amounts are correct.. if anyperson check and their amounts are fake.. they can print screen and show the world.. and if its true then yes u guys have already much proven that the amount is correct.. as for the hotwallet and cold wallet..



part 2 btc and ltc screen auto refresh every 5 mins got time stamp in blockcghain
maybe u guys can have a web view of the  computer screen as in physical screen to your wallet address in block chain..then using a market or a paper u guys can block some part opf the address... which means.. u need to buy a screen for each wallet u guys have.. but masking out   part of address, masking out part is to make sure that u guys have a own unique wallet not wallet from mount gox or huobi wallet..
so example if the user have 1mil bitcoin.. but your cold and hot wallet add up to 500k = means that smt is suspicious.. but if your hot and cold wallet have 980k to 990k++ then its seems still ok..

part 3 for fiats amount (letting ppl know how much that is in your bank and the full account number does not compromise the company $ unless he can hack a bank)
using the physical screen.. login to the ibanking of bitfinex bank account i dont care how many just show all in live cam.. also auto refresh and there is a date stamp too i guess in everybanking system..and letting as see a webpage using a live camera pointing to the screen in clear view...


by doing part 1, we check our own amount and if its correct its good but not enough proof so we proceed to part 2 live camera in front of your hot wallet and cold wallet, u can mask address but not all and lastly a live camera poling to your lcd screen to show us amount of how many banks u guys have.. lets give a + - xxxk if the amount exceeds that means there MIGHT BE A FRAUD..


and well do not tell us that ELECTRICITY is expensive because if u dare to do all this, u guys should have more people coming to bitfinex and u guys earn the commission.. its a win win situation unless u guys wanna keep something hiding from us..


what do u guys think of my idea?? good or bad.. if good pls help me promote it... sorry for bad english... and why i choose live cam instead of live pic because life camera hard to modify and u can even put a fighting fish in a jar beside your desk to show us that ITS REALLY REALLY REALLY LIVE!!!!  because the fish will be swimming and what the fish does is not systematic..

1) Bitfinex will never reveal to the public the public keys where it stores the Bitcoins and the Litecoins of his customers.
2) Bitfinex will never reveal to the public the banks and the bank accounts where it stores the fiat deposits of his customers.
3) Bitfinex runs a platform where numbers reconciliation involves a pretty sophisticated understanding of the dynamics related to shorting and leveraged trading.  
4) Bitfinex has nothing to hide, doesn't do marginal reserve and will always try to keep all of its customers funds as safe as possible.
5) Bitfinex is in this moment seeking for a solution that would actually make sense in certifying point 4 with respect to points 1, 2 and 3 and we will keep you posted about that.

I believe the above points are pretty easy to understand in their respective motivations.
The technology we are dealing with (Bitcoin and Litecoin) is subject to points of weakness and trading platforms can't be as transparent as the blockchain is, due to risk and safety implications.
We hold these concepts to be self evident.
If somebody is not happy with the above points he can always withdraw his funds and seek for a better option.
Nothing and nobody obliges you to stay.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[whatthesith]

Just to report some minor defects on the UI.

and there is some discrepancy in the fee https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/features#exchange .

[jabetizo]

i am providing liquidity in USD, however my local currency is EUR. can anyone recommend a cheap way to hedge EUR/USD so i can be immune to exchange rate swings?