[ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure

[yxt]

stay away from this...

[Godsrevenge]

Question from my side: Will it be possible to order also as a normal private investor from Germany thanks to the postponement to the 15th?

I heart surprisingely, that originally the BAFIN planned to allow only allow investments by insitutional investors in Germany.

(It's funny, I headed big teams and realized multi million projects in the past, but they think, they have to patronize and protect me for myself. That feels so German.)

[SneakyBeaver420]

stay away from this...

i have same opinion. looks like another dream. but no results and software bugs will purge this

[cybercash]

Question from my side: Will it be possible to order also as a normal private investor from Germany thanks to the postponement to the 15th?

I heart surprisingely, that originally the BAFIN planned to allow only allow investments by insitutional investors in Germany.

(It's funny, I headed big teams and realized multi million projects in the past, but they think, they have to patronize and protect me for myself. That feels so German.)

You can invest if you have 200k € at your hands thanks to BAFIN regulations. Envion will have a meeting this week with lawyers to find a way that people with under 200k € can invest.

[amit11]

I actually mine with a rival of yours, I must tell you, if you reinvest 25% of your proceeds in the hardware I would say you are not going anywhere, I mean it takes about 15 months to break even on average, and then you have another say 8 months or 10 with earnings then you need to replace the hardware. Sure there are better months, but since the whole industry becomes larger it is to be assumed that profits will be less. So with 25% of proceeds, IMHO, there is no way to replace the rigs.

Also can someone please tell me if the company really believes that there is a 161% ROI for the investor, that reminds me the example with the king and the beggar and the rice, in no time every investor would have more money as there is money in the whole world...

Did you look into this?
https[Suspicious link removed]mplary-hardware-specifications-kpis-of-envions-mmu-ff5fb77cd5da

There is everything you need to know about the 161% ROI.

What this article shows is, sorry to say, that you have either no idea or worse.

I have no time to go every over every aspect of calculation so I just pick a few:


A3) Average local energy prices, very very unlikely, on EEX ist 0.0435 on average and taxes are not included here so why would anybody offer you energy for less, anyway it will not make a large difference.

K3) Cost of an ASIC miner: 1945 USD, at least in Germany its impossible, since, including the PSU this is the price in China if you are very lucky. Then you need to fly it somewhere, pay customs, and especially VAT within Europe which you do not get back because the end product (cryptocurrencies) has no VAT on top. So the price of an ASIC is currently or a month ago more like 2400 USD.

K13) This is total nonsense, the mining profit decreases every month and will most probably reach zero profitability within 2 years. I am mining for many years and on average your profit will be about 50% per year and this only after quite some time when you dealt with many problems already. When the next generation of miners comes to the market earlier your hardware will be useless even faster than 2 years.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Also when profitability for ETH or Bitcoin drops dramatically then, with a large mining facility you cannot just switch to other coins.

Sure you can mine Einsteinium, no Problem, but with 1000 MMUS not, you cannot do it with some small coins you need to mine large coins and you will run into this problems just like now.

F) These costs are very unlikely, shipping a container 1000 USD ?, from where to where, usually even insurance cost more just for a short ride. Energy components, if you want to be safe is definitely more and don't forget, power stations don't have 50,100 or whatever KW plugs hanging around, you need to install transformators there for this purpose and long cables with large diameters made from copper, they can cost 20K USD easily for a single container. What about the cost of disposing of the units after lifetime, where is the insurance for transport, for the container and for the power station in case your equipment destroys it?

X) 1000 MMU´s that will require a shitload of people, handling, and organizing, bookkeeping, legal departments, monitoring and more.

I'm not part of the Envion team, but I think I can answer some of the issues you raised:

A3 - This whole project is based on cheap renewable energy deals which would be cheaper than what's currently available. See the CEO's background. Envion hasn't provided the exact details of the deals they've signed, claiming it's for business reasons. This seems like a reasonable claim to me, but its up to each and every person to decide if they want to trust Envion on this.
K3 - The 23% price difference you pointed out can be explained when thinking of large batch orders.
K13 - The key to solving this is signing deals with miner suppliers to secure next generation miners first and fast. Envion claims they did this, and again it's plausible considering the high volume of purchase orders they will expect to make. Regarding switching - they claim that their software will be able to monitor mining profitability on all coins and switch between them as needed. It's not that complex to implement and I'm sure all big miners do it. It's true that they will need to mine large coins mostly but if BTC/ETC falls and there is no other large coin around to take their place, that probably means that the whole cryptocurrency world collapsed. The common ground of all investors should be a belief in the future of blockchain technologies. I'm saying blockchain and not cryptocurrency, because even if cryptocurrency will not be mined directly anymore in the future, there will still be blockchains around that will need mining for other reasons (to run decentralized apps most probably) and these will have to award miners with different coins.
F - I'm not an energy expert, but regarding the shipping - the first containers will be shipped to the nearest sites around Germany, probably by truck, so $1000 transportation and insurance seems reasonable.

Again, I'm not from envion, so admins will need to confirm and fill the holes.

Remember that Envion also calculated BTC price of $8K/BTC while we are over $11K/BTC now. If this price persists or even rises, it would lead to a higher profit than 161% ROI or at least will cover some of the other issues that worry you.

[ceaa]

I have some questions about this project.

1) Your MMU has a patented airflow design. Looking over the people on your team, I cannot figure out who has the technical expertise to come up with this. Did you license this IP from a third-party? If you developed it in-house, can you answer who on your has the expertise to come up with this design?

2) Was Jonathan Koch the one who programmed the Envion OS?

3) Are you manufacturing the MMUs yourself or do you have a contract with a third party? If you cannot disclose the identity of the third party, can you notarize that this infrastructure is in place and terms are already agreed?

4) Is your ASIC and GPU supply chain secured with terms already agreed? If so, can you release a notarized statement to that effect?

5) It seems like you have been working on this project for a long time, yet your corporate registry shows that you came into existence in October. Can you explain this discrepancy?

6) Who is Cyrill Alexander Stäger and why is he not listed on your team page?

7) If your prototype is really functional, why are you unable to provide realtime mining statistics on your dashboard?

[tommyleung]

Mark, I'm sorry you had to be removed because your conduct violated the channel's rules.  You were warned repeatedly and many people asked for you to be removed.

I answered your questions on Telegram and I will answer them AGAIN here.

1. Are you SCAM?
No.  But we encourage you to do your due diligence and find out for yourself.  That means you have to look at our website and whitepaper at the very least.

You can learn all about what Envion does on our website, but if you want to be sure we're not a scam, I suggest you take a look at our team. 

You can also see that we are in partnership with the Frauenhofer Institute, one of the premier science research institutes in Europe: http://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/envion-ag-envion-and-fraunhofer-to-start-research-cooperation-20171109-00299

2. Where are founders and co-founders? Where are no info about founders on website!
All the info on our team is on the Team page, visible from the top navigation: https://www.envion.org/en/team/

The entire Envion team have been working on public projects in the German business community for years—we are entrepreneurs with easily-accessible public profiles.

3. Where do you mine? NO INFO about your minig!!!
We have a Mobile Mining Unit in operation not far from our Berlin offices.  We will have a second unit coming online in the next two weeks. Info about it and a view of the operating dashboard is available here: https://www.envion.org/en/mobile-mining-unit/

4. Website was open 1 month ago!!!
It's normal for a company to work in stealth until they are ready with their product.  We are no different. Learn about stealth mode here: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/229461

Furthermore, we couldn't possibly have developed our IP, written our whitepaper, gotten lawyers, secured deals, etc. in in one month. 

Now that we are public, we will also be announcing our external auditor from one of the Big Four auditing firms who will oversee our ICO and business operations for full transparency and accountability.

5. Where is technical characteristics for power ?
I don't know what this means and you refused to clarify in our discussion on Telegram.

6. Where is info about mining power per container&
There is considerable information on the technical specifications of our mining units in our 60-page whitepaper: https://www.envion.org/en/whitepaper/

In addition to that information, we are coming out with supplementary data that shows more detail on our projections and different operating scenarios. That is a need that arose from user requests here and on Telegram and we are responding to it.

7. Where do you locate&
We are a Swiss company with operations in Berlin, which is where our mining unit is.  This information is on our website and has been confirmed by DigiCert to get our SSL license: https://www.envion.org/en/imprint/

8. To color a container is it your real technology?
As for what our innovation is, there are many: from using Industry 4.0 controls, to the mining software that dynamically chooses coin, algo, etc. from real-time market data, to the patent-pending cooling system.

If it were just throwing some ASICs in a box we wouldn't have one of the world's premier research institutions working with us, the Frauenhofer Institute (they invented MP3s too!).

MORE OF YOUR 'QUESTIONS':

1. Your company was created October, 5, 2017! (Info from Zug, Switzerland register -  we can provide a paper).
Again, we were working in stealth mode.  A lot of companies incorporate new entities in their ICO jurisdiction when they decide they will use an ICO to fund their project.

2. Website was created in October, 2017!
We hope you are not using our website to determine if we are legit—please do more research.  Yes, it went public when envion went public with our company and project.

3. In White Paper you told about  Envion technologies GmbH what will cooperate with you, but no any info about this company! Please, send me a link to this company!
Here is the text from the whitepaper: "After the ICO, we will found a 100% subsidiary for R&D and the management of container production: envion technologies GmbH, located in the German blockchain capital of Berlin."

I'm not sure how we can make the word AFTER more clear or to better describe the purpose of creating that subsidiary.

4. Account in Linked In was opened 1 week ago!
Stealth mode, dude. Not sure what else to say.

5. Your CEO is journalist and  was hired in October, 2017 like all their team!
Our CEO has spent two decades in the energy industry after his career as a journalist, leading an energy investment fund in Berlin and advising many energy startups: http://www.quadrat-capital.com/management/


Mark, please stop the harassment.  I've answered your questions many times over now.  I welcome hard questions and don't even mind a bit of conflict, but you are scaring away other people from asking their important questions.  I hope this suffices.

hi,

in your above post, you mentioned that "Now that we are public, we will also be announcing our external auditor from one of the Big Four auditing firms who will oversee our ICO and business operations for full transparency and accountability."...i have done some research but was unfortunately unable to locate the relevant information...would you mind sharing more information about the external auditor that you are working with?

thanks,
tommy

[isolo1]

Envion main idea and the whole project look very interesting and promising. It would be very interesting to clarify the following questions: 1. Are there any published calculations of estimates for model CAPEX and OPEX for a Mobile Mining Unit.  Looks like OPEX part depends a lot on electricity and internet connection prices. What electricity and internet connection prices were used in a model? 2. What is current estimated price for a Mobile Mining Unit for a 3rd party and what is estimated time for reaching BreakEven point for a 3rd party which will invest into MMU? 3. What are current  estimates for the revenue of each MMU and what aasumptions have been used for calculating revenue estimates? 

[rapperug92]

Why aren't they fixing a date for kyc?? I mean since it's necessary to buy the tokens only makes sense getting it done at the earliest

[oli40]

Hello Envion, I would like to hear your view on your relative position in the mining-market.

Marc van der Chijs, founder of First Block Capital, said in an interview they are planning a huge rollout of mining units.
They are a big player and get their funding from institutional investors only.
They aim to raise $500 million over the next few weeks.

How would a big player like this influence your position in the (future) mining market?

See also http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171204005288/en/

[franc0]

Envion is legit, no doubt about it. He has answered all the questions a zillion of times in telegram and now here. So it's all about doing your own diligence now, if you don't want to invest in the most promising mining ico then don't do it.

[medicasa]

I have looked on the airflow design and specs.
Statement as engineer: Bullshit.

Sorry, this will only work continuously where the climate conditions are perfect.

The design as shown is a not good for airflow and for this capacity specs.

This design is only good to prevent come rainwater inside the container.

The rest: self-sucking heating container.

To have a team with only designers, business economist and No techies on board is always fail...

Good luck guys.

[ceaa]

I have looked on the airflow design and specs.
Statement as engineer: Bullshit.

Sorry, this will only work continuously where the climate conditions are perfect.

The design as shown is a not good for airflow and for this capacity specs.

This design is only good to prevent come rainwater inside the container.

The rest: self-sucking heating container.

To have a team with only designers, business economist and No techies on board is always fail...

Good luck guys.

@envion - I'd like to hear your response to this, which is also linked to my questions about your team a few posts up. There seems to be a lot of technical innovation proclaimed, but your team is quite scarce of technical people.

[ceaa]

Why aren't they fixing a date for kyc?? I mean since it's necessary to buy the tokens only makes sense getting it done at the earliest

Did they announce who will do kyc for them yet?

[dotti]

I have some questions about this project.

1) Your MMU has a patented airflow design. Looking over the people on your team, I cannot figure out who has the technical expertise to come up with this. Did you license this IP from a third-party? If you developed it in-house, can you answer who on your has the expertise to come up with this design?

2) Was Jonathan Koch the one who programmed the Envion OS?

3) Are you manufacturing the MMUs yourself or do you have a contract with a third party? If you cannot disclose the identity of the third party, can you notarize that this infrastructure is in place and terms are already agreed?

4) Is your ASIC and GPU supply chain secured with terms already agreed? If so, can you release a notarized statement to that effect?

5) It seems like you have been working on this project for a long time, yet your corporate registry shows that you came into existence in October. Can you explain this discrepancy?

6) Who is Cyrill Alexander Stäger and why is he not listed on your team page?

7) If your prototype is really functional, why are you unable to provide realtime mining statistics on your dashboard?

I felt these are really legit questions, instead of repeating them I'll quote it at +1.

I like the initiative whereby the team are committing resources to develop their own Envion OS, but how reliable is it? How many members are involved for ongoing development and testing cycle?

I'll also like to know the following:

• For the subsequent harvests, how will the 75% profit be divide among EVN token holder? Based on the token share %? Or flat rate base on investment sum?
• How will we know if the ICO proceedings are prioritized on MMU production and deployment? At the same time 3rd party investment are coming in to buy their own dedicated MMU unit, the available production might have been prioritized for them mid-way.
  

[AzakeB]

I felt these are really legit questions, instead of repeating them I'll quote it at +1.

I have forwarded these question to the telegram group. It is a bit redundant but I will offer you all answers as soon as possible.
Laurent will answer them.

[peeejayz]

With the move back of the ICO, I'm really wondering if I should actually invest in this.

They havn't offered and actual working proof of there current units, with this I'm not really sure.

Envion, why don't you show proof to the working of the demo/test units?

Cheers

[B0bares]

With the move back of the ICO, I'm really wondering if I should actually invest in this.

They havn't offered and actual working proof of there current units, with this I'm not really sure.

Envion, why don't you show proof to the working of the demo/test units?

Cheers

Bitfury are producing bitcoin MMUs for years . The only problem - they are for big investors. Envion is trying to reinvent the hot water ( small players will buy everything with bitcoin tag attached )

[Johnny00]

I felt these are really legit questions, instead of repeating them I'll quote it at +1.

I have forwarded these question to the telegram group. It is a bit redundant but I will offer you all answers as soon as possible.
Laurent will answer them.

Let us know the answers

[AzakeB]

With the move back of the ICO, I'm really wondering if I should actually invest in this.

They havn't offered and actual working proof of there current units, with this I'm not really sure.

Envion, why don't you show proof to the working of the demo/test units?

Cheers

This shouldn't raise concerns. Sometimes postponing something isn't a bad sign.
A very close relative of me were at the envion investor meetup in Berlin, where envion showcased the MMU. A real company with real people meeting real investors.
The event was executed very professional. For me it's crystal clear. This company is awesome.

With the move back of the ICO, I'm really wondering if I should actually invest in this.

They havn't offered and actual working proof of there current units, with this I'm not really sure.

Envion, why don't you show proof to the working of the demo/test units?

Cheers

Bitfury are producing bitcoin MMUs for years . The only problem - they are for big investors. Envion is trying to reinvent the hot water ( small players will buy everything with bitcoin tag attached )

You are comparing quite different approaches to be honest. One understands itself more like a HW and SW producer providing infrastructure and software. The other trying to actively support the decentralization supplied by green energy.