[ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure

[Pfandgrinding]

@Envion can you please state the Credit card fee if I want to invest more than 10.000 €?

[GreatFelix]

The date is coming closer and I have this thrill! I can't wait for the sale to start - it feels like an endless time since I first pressed on the link to this topic and read the Whitepaper... My excitement is real and tomorrow we gonna see how long the token supply will last. My bet is 4 blocks. There is too much going on around the project. The Alexa ranking is going to higher levels and there are over 120k people whitelisted.

Could be one of the quickest ICOs. I am really hyped.  Lets hope the best for tomorrow. 

[Xtar]

Let the Ethereum network die on tomorrow's ICO.

[AzakeB]

How can i create an account with envion.?

Just sign-up on envion.org/en/ico , receive a confirmation mail and wait for further instructions.
That's it. You can't do more.

Join telegram channel as well, because announcements show up immediately:
https://t.me/Envion

Announcement Channel:
https://t.me/ENVION_Ann

[AzakeB]

The date is coming closer and I have this thrill! I can't wait for the sale to start - it feels like an endless time since I first pressed on the link to this topic and read the Whitepaper... My excitement is real and tomorrow we gonna see how long the token supply will last. My bet is 4 blocks. There is too much going on around the project. The Alexa ranking is going to higher levels and there are over 120k people whitelisted.

Could be one of the quickest ICOs. I am really hyped.  Lets hope the best for tomorrow. 

I am also thrilled. Got my ETH just by now. Hopefully it won't drop that bad this night so I can wake up calmly besides the big excitement of today (already!)
I am still not sure if everything works out with the sign-up mails. Because we can't do anything until we received them, right?

[medicasa]

Their Video needs more Marketing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2eBLJayRas



Everyone who invest will not get their Return XD

Good Luck in maintaining the containers placed everywhere were energy is cheap and driving there to fix hardware problems XD

[Pajulapoiss]

Laurent banned me for asking to release any of proofs or documents that they promised here or in telegram.
I wasnt rude. I am interested in investing. I even explained him he can black out critical info.
All they say is no warn u if u ask again then ban u.
Tell ppl to use search function.
Anyway its day to ico and they promised to release some info.
I bet none will be.

Looks like this ico is based on promises and hype only.

Its okay if u invest 1000 or 2000$ but its not if you want invest 100 000 or 300 000 is it?

If you ask some hard proofs they will ban you. Yeh so other sheep won't see it.

Absolute bullshit

I am from this industry, I have asked questions over and over, they simply ignore it and they spread false calculations and have completely unrealistic ideas or just lie about the project. I have built mining containers myself and, it takes a while to build them and you need to order electrical appliances that are not available easy at all times.

To build 200 pcs/month is total nonsense, you would need about 700 people with experience  to do that and there is no hardware readily available for them, especially transformators.

Also they act like every powerstation has transformators ready for theyr mining containers. This is untrue, almost no power station has this available because there is no need and the invetsment can be up to 30K USD for a transformator and cabling.

On top, in most countries there is no way you could put up a container somewhere, either because in northern developed countries you are not allowed to do so, and in southern countries its to cold to do this, no matter what cooling system you use because if outside temperature is 40, asics want work no matter how much air you move,

Last but not least, excess energy, give me a break, this happens like 50 hrs / year and you can check this on EEX, its nonsense, do they realy believe people are so stupid to build a powerstation for millions and then find out nobody needs the energy ? There is an exchange for electricity and energy has its price. Also the highest price for energy is paid for regular electricity which is what they need.

Also the standard way to build a container as done by many other companies holds about 150 miners with like 1200 GPU and not 60 with only 500 GPU.
.
About the 161% I have posted earlier, there is no f.. way to make these returns for you guys, please use your brain, there is a reason they ban everybody and do not allow to check or discuss the calculation

I was considering investing in envion tomorrow, but the 161% ROI got me thinking, how can they guarantee that to every investor.. it does sound a bit dodgy...

I was going to invest using credit card, as I dont have any btc or eth laying around, but now I might just skip it all together.

[powderpc]

Has anyone discussed the economics of what these guys are proposing?

In general, a hallmark sign of noobs being played is when you get these outrageous proposals for ROI that your average person buying an ICO token would have no clue how to interpret because they lack sufficient technical and economic background to understand what's going on.

In a perfectly competitive environment there will be zero profits. That means you put in 100% you get back 100% due to a perfectly competitive environment. That doesn't mean nobody makes money. It just means at the end of the day the aggregate profits and losses in the market add up to zero. Given that Envion is competing based on energy costs, there advantages are slim due to the high number of entities using energy arbitrage as an advantage. In order to truly gain an advantage you would need to develop the next ASIC or the next node for a graphics card, both of which are insanely difficult and costly and also highly competitive.

In a low or negative interest rate type of environment, such as where your funding comes from an ICO at little to no risk from the founding party the competitive environment could be a "negative" surplus environment where everyone puts in 100% and on average everyone gets back less than 100% due to excessive competition. For example, if the market supports $0 profit in a perfectly competitive environment with 10 players you might invest $1000 and get $1000 back. But if even one more entrant enters the market then you suddenly have 11 players competing for $10,000. Unless the market grows to $11,000 then your average return per player becomes $909. Many markets suffer from this deflationary expectation and with crypto you generally don't have this problem, but over the short term, should too much competition enter the market with too much funding/easy money supporting it you could see a very problematic situation, aka a mining bubble (not a crypto asset bubble).

In order for mining to increase in profitability you need increasing levels of transaction volume. So if volumes stay at X but miner hash rate goes from Y to 2Y the difficulty level will increase and returns will go from Z to Z/2, i.e. half. You can see for example how Antminer D3s (and their competitors from Inno and Pinidea) significantly distorted the market from around July 2017 to now by exponentially increasing the hash rate in a way that far exceeded the growth in transaction volume. Miner profitability is dependent on a high rate of transaction volume growth.

Envion cannot control transaction volume growth. There are NO GUARANTEED returns in mining. They can take your money, build MMUs and if their competition is simultaneously increasing network hash rate in a similar manner mining the same coins while transaction volume stays flat or declines then profitability will stay flat or decline.

In a worst case scenario, which we have seen before, mining collapses entirely as you get a combination of 1) rapidly falling prices 2) rapidly declining transaction volume 3) rapidly declining mining profitability.

We have seen very significant and sudden price declines in the past year due to liquidity issues and if such a decline were to be sustained you could see serious problems with the Envion model.

Just think about it. Russian players want to invest $100 M in mining. Japanese players are probably investing closer to $500 M in mining and mining hardware.

This project is up against a lot of competition. Unless someone has done the calculations showing probabilities of these various outcomes and scenarios I think generally speaking, investing in an ICO for mining is much higher risk than say, buying cloud mining or investing in a few machines and throwing them into a colo data center or your basement where you can start generating a return IMMEDIATELY.

Time is critical when mining. You shouldn't bet on something that doesn't exist yet because as we've found out from the past (google KNC miner, CoinTerra, Butterfly Labs) if you're not putting your money to work right now, the risks change in crypto so fast that by the time your money is going to work, it could be worth a lot less than when you had originally invested in it simply due to changes in market conditions that you failed to anticipate.

I have no problems with concepts like this but I think they're much higher risk than what most people understand due to the extremely high capital intensive investment required and the time, labor, and transactional (i.e. hiring/HR/admin/licensing, environmental, permitting) cost needed to develop that capital. There are serious supply chain (logistics) hurdles that I haven't even discussed, but I can assure you that if you are missing even a power cord, ethernet cable, PDU, PSU, circuit breaker, etc. then you can't do anything with the rest of the your equipment or you suffer losses or diminished returns while waiting for whatever you need.

[borpolev]

Not quite sure about this project. Perhaps will give it a chance and invest small amount to see what happens, as it looks better than most other ICOs here.

[liquidcryptos]

Has anyone discussed the economics of what these guys are proposing?

In general, a hallmark sign of noobs being played is when you get these outrageous proposals for ROI that your average person buying an ICO token would have no clue how to interpret because they lack sufficient technical and economic background to understand what's going on.

In a perfectly competitive environment there will be zero profits. That means you put in 100% you get back 100% due to a perfectly competitive environment. That doesn't mean nobody makes money. It just means at the end of the day the aggregate profits and losses in the market add up to zero. Given that Envion is competing based on energy costs, there advantages are slim due to the high number of entities using energy arbitrage as an advantage. In order to truly gain an advantage you would need to develop the next ASIC or the next node for a graphics card, both of which are insanely difficult and costly and also highly competitive.

In a low or negative interest rate type of environment, such as where your funding comes from an ICO at little to no risk from the founding party the competitive environment could be a "negative" surplus environment where everyone puts in 100% and on average everyone gets back less than 100% due to excessive competition. For example, if the market supports $0 profit in a perfectly competitive environment with 10 players you might invest $1000 and get $1000 back. But if even one more entrant enters the market then you suddenly have 11 players competing for $10,000. Unless the market grows to $11,000 then your average return per player becomes $909. Many markets suffer from this deflationary expectation and with crypto you generally don't have this problem, but over the short term, should too much competition enter the market with too much funding/easy money supporting it you could see a very problematic situation, aka a mining bubble (not a crypto asset bubble).

In order for mining to increase in profitability you need increasing levels of transaction volume. So if volumes stay at X but miner hash rate goes from Y to 2Y the difficulty level will increase and returns will go from Z to Z/2, i.e. half. You can see for example how Antminer D3s (and their competitors from Inno and Pinidea) significantly distorted the market from around July 2017 to now by exponentially increasing the hash rate in a way that far exceeded the growth in transaction volume. Miner profitability is dependent on a high rate of transaction volume growth.

Envion cannot control transaction volume growth. There are NO GUARANTEED returns in mining. They can take your money, build MMUs and if their competition is simultaneously increasing network hash rate in a similar manner mining the same coins while transaction volume stays flat or declines then profitability will stay flat or decline.

In a worst case scenario, which we have seen before, mining collapses entirely as you get a combination of 1) rapidly falling prices 2) rapidly declining transaction volume 3) rapidly declining mining profitability.

We have seen very significant and sudden price declines in the past year due to liquidity issues and if such a decline were to be sustained you could see serious problems with the Envion model.

Just think about it. Russian players want to invest $100 M in mining. Japanese players are probably investing closer to $500 M in mining and mining hardware.

This project is up against a lot of competition. Unless someone has done the calculations showing probabilities of these various outcomes and scenarios I think generally speaking, investing in an ICO for mining is much higher risk than say, buying cloud mining or investing in a few machines and throwing them into a colo data center or your basement where you can start generating a return IMMEDIATELY.

Time is critical when mining. You shouldn't bet on something that doesn't exist yet because as we've found out from the past (google KNC miner, CoinTerra, Butterfly Labs) if you're not putting your money to work right now, the risks change in crypto so fast that by the time your money is going to work, it could be worth a lot less than when you had originally invested in it simply due to changes in market conditions that you failed to anticipate.

I have no problems with concepts like this but I think they're much higher risk than what most people understand due to the extremely high capital intensive investment required and the time, labor, and transactional (i.e. hiring/HR/admin/licensing, environmental, permitting) cost needed to develop that capital. There are serious supply chain (logistics) hurdles that I haven't even discussed, but I can assure you that if you are missing even a power cord, ethernet cable, PDU, PSU, circuit breaker, etc. then you can't do anything with the rest of the your equipment or you suffer losses or diminished returns while waiting for whatever you need.

hey.. the profits are totally reasonable. I mine and i make about the same profit. You must have no experience mining. all their figures are legit and determined through whattomine.com same thing i use and it is fairly accurate. once my miners were setup and running, i havent had to touch them once. just remotely from teamviewer sometimes i restart or adjust settings. now they are getting their equipment much cheaper than i am. also asic miners are more profitable than gpu miners in general ( i just use gpu), also they are getting far cheaper energy costs than i am.  pretty damn good company/ico in my books.

[Pfandgrinding]

Has anyone discussed the economics of what these guys are proposing?

In general, a hallmark sign of noobs being played is when you get these outrageous proposals for ROI that your average person buying an ICO token would have no clue how to interpret because they lack sufficient technical and economic background to understand what's going on.

In a perfectly competitive environment there will be zero profits. That means you put in 100% you get back 100% due to a perfectly competitive environment. That doesn't mean nobody makes money. It just means at the end of the day the aggregate profits and losses in the market add up to zero. Given that Envion is competing based on energy costs, there advantages are slim due to the high number of entities using energy arbitrage as an advantage. In order to truly gain an advantage you would need to develop the next ASIC or the next node for a graphics card, both of which are insanely difficult and costly and also highly competitive.

In a low or negative interest rate type of environment, such as where your funding comes from an ICO at little to no risk from the founding party the competitive environment could be a "negative" surplus environment where everyone puts in 100% and on average everyone gets back less than 100% due to excessive competition. For example, if the market supports $0 profit in a perfectly competitive environment with 10 players you might invest $1000 and get $1000 back. But if even one more entrant enters the market then you suddenly have 11 players competing for $10,000. Unless the market grows to $11,000 then your average return per player becomes $909. Many markets suffer from this deflationary expectation and with crypto you generally don't have this problem, but over the short term, should too much competition enter the market with too much funding/easy money supporting it you could see a very problematic situation, aka a mining bubble (not a crypto asset bubble).

In order for mining to increase in profitability you need increasing levels of transaction volume. So if volumes stay at X but miner hash rate goes from Y to 2Y the difficulty level will increase and returns will go from Z to Z/2, i.e. half. You can see for example how Antminer D3s (and their competitors from Inno and Pinidea) significantly distorted the market from around July 2017 to now by exponentially increasing the hash rate in a way that far exceeded the growth in transaction volume. Miner profitability is dependent on a high rate of transaction volume growth.

Envion cannot control transaction volume growth. There are NO GUARANTEED returns in mining. They can take your money, build MMUs and if their competition is simultaneously increasing network hash rate in a similar manner mining the same coins while transaction volume stays flat or declines then profitability will stay flat or decline.

In a worst case scenario, which we have seen before, mining collapses entirely as you get a combination of 1) rapidly falling prices 2) rapidly declining transaction volume 3) rapidly declining mining profitability.

We have seen very significant and sudden price declines in the past year due to liquidity issues and if such a decline were to be sustained you could see serious problems with the Envion model.

Just think about it. Russian players want to invest $100 M in mining. Japanese players are probably investing closer to $500 M in mining and mining hardware.

This project is up against a lot of competition. Unless someone has done the calculations showing probabilities of these various outcomes and scenarios I think generally speaking, investing in an ICO for mining is much higher risk than say, buying cloud mining or investing in a few machines and throwing them into a colo data center or your basement where you can start generating a return IMMEDIATELY.

Time is critical when mining. You shouldn't bet on something that doesn't exist yet because as we've found out from the past (google KNC miner, CoinTerra, Butterfly Labs) if you're not putting your money to work right now, the risks change in crypto so fast that by the time your money is going to work, it could be worth a lot less than when you had originally invested in it simply due to changes in market conditions that you failed to anticipate.

I have no problems with concepts like this but I think they're much higher risk than what most people understand due to the extremely high capital intensive investment required and the time, labor, and transactional (i.e. hiring/HR/admin/licensing, environmental, permitting) cost needed to develop that capital. There are serious supply chain (logistics) hurdles that I haven't even discussed, but I can assure you that if you are missing even a power cord, ethernet cable, PDU, PSU, circuit breaker, etc. then you can't do anything with the rest of the your equipment or you suffer losses or diminished returns while waiting for whatever you need.

hey.. the profits are totally reasonable. I mine and i make about the same profit. You must have no experience mining. all their figures are legit and determined through whattomine.com same thing i use and it is fairly accurate. once my miners were setup and running, i havent had to touch them once. just remotely from teamviewer sometimes i restart or adjust settings. now they are getting their equipment much cheaper than i am. also asic miners are more profitable than gpu miners in general ( i just use gpu), also they are getting far cheaper energy costs than i am.  pretty damn good company/ico in my books.

Thank you. Only a fool wouldn't see such potential. This ICO will break records.

[bribed]

The date is coming closer and I have this thrill! I can't wait for the sale to start - it feels like an endless time since I first pressed on the link to this topic and read the Whitepaper... My excitement is real and tomorrow we gonna see how long the token supply will last. My bet is 4 blocks. There is too much going on around the project. The Alexa ranking is going to higher levels and there are over 120k people whitelisted.

Could be one of the quickest ICOs. I am really hyped.  Lets hope the best for tomorrow. 

Indeed, the hype is real! We all have been looking forward to the ICO finally taking place. I am really confident about Envion and think that this will be a game changer that will be awesome for investors as for the company.
Great idea with the bets, I say after 5 blocks it will be sold out! Awesome that there are 120,000 people whitelisted, didnt knew that. I was actually asking myself if we cracked the 100,000. Envion will break all records!

[zahidmoon]

The date is coming closer and I have this thrill! I can't wait for the sale to start - it feels like an endless time since I first pressed on the link to this topic and read the Whitepaper... My excitement is real and tomorrow we gonna see how long the token supply will last. My bet is 4 blocks. There is too much going on around the project. The Alexa ranking is going to higher levels and there are over 120k people whitelisted.

Could be one of the quickest ICOs. I am really hyped.  Lets hope the best for tomorrow. 

Indeed, the hype is real! We all have been looking forward to the ICO finally taking place. I am really confident about Envion and think that this will be a game changer that will be awesome for investors as for the company.
Great idea with the bets, I say after 5 blocks it will be sold out! Awesome that there are 120,000 people whitelisted, didnt knew that. I was actually asking myself if we cracked the 100,000. Envion will break all records!

yes the hype is real everybody want to buy envion early
some of my frinds ask me to buy now and ico is not started yet
for all of my friends please just little wait more and ICO will be live
also i bought more eth coin and i will buy as soon as ico live
this is a big opportunity for all of us to be the part of this great project having a lot of potential
team is working great and communication skills mind blowing
i am sure this project will be huge success
and best of luck for envion and its community including me 

[matale0]

bla bla bla

So whats you going to give us that you promised on ico day, here we are.

Other then promises and pretty words and photos...

It's regretful that we have to ban anyone from the Telegram channel, but we have a responsibility to our 12,000 members to encourage productive and respectful discussion.  Every member has the opportunity to ask questions and get answers.  It is our responsibility to communicate accurate information about envion to those who are interested.  It's possible that you may not find satisfaction in our answers.  The polite response to that situation is to move on to another topic or leave the group. 

Repeating the same question and ignoring requests by admins and other members to stop cluttering the group and trolling is not an acceptable response and one that leads to sanctions.  Your questions will never get you banned, a bad attitude is certain to get you banned.

Envion does not reveal its suppliers or pricing information.  Period.  This information falls under the trade secrets category for any and every business and revealing it not only jeopardizes the relationship with suppliers, but it also reveals information that could give competitors an advantage.  It is no coincidence that the people most dissatisfied with our refusal to provide this information are in fact competitors. 

@Saschaman is a competitor.  He knows that given the small number of hardware suppliers, it's very easy to determine where hardware is coming from—even if information on the deals is heavily redacted.  Saschaman admitted so much on Telegram—simultaneously saying we should just black out certain information, but also saying that it would be easy to determine what sources are.

Envion considers this type of questioning to be an adversarial attack by a competitor. 

We are confident that our investors understand that banning competitors for rudely demanding trade secrets is done as a protection for their investment. 

From what Laurent was saying I dont think so they going to release anything, and when I asked about it, and said they promised it and tried to push my argument he banned me, so I guess its just build a hype as much as you can keep sheeple until near ico then dont release anything cuz u got nothing, sheeple will send ETH/BTC anyway.

Laurent banned me for asking to release any of proofs or documents that they promised here or in telegram.
I wasnt rude. I am interested in investing. I even explained him he can black out critical info.
All they say is no warn u if u ask again then ban u.
Tell ppl to use search function.
Anyway its day to ico and they promised to release some info.
I bet none will be.

Looks like this ico is based on promises and hype only.

Its okay if u invest 1000 or 2000$ but its not if you want invest 100 000 or 300 000 is it?

If you ask some hard proofs they will ban you. Yeh so other sheep won't see it.

Absolute bullshit

Actually, certain proofs and documents are promised to be released before the ICO. Right now, it's just a matter of waiting to see what information can be released and confirmed. The timing is unfortunate in terms of how late the information is, but let's see what we get in the next 24 hours.

[Rob101]

I have a couple of questions...

1) How are the dividends paid exactly?

2) How often are the dividends paid?


Thank you

[cybercash]

I have a couple of questions...

1) How are the dividends paid exactly?

2) How often are the dividends paid?


Thank you

All you have to do is to hold your EVN token in your ERC20 compatible wallet like myetherwallet.com (MEW) and per smart contract you will receive a dividend on the base of how many tokens you are holding paid out per week in ETH.

[akbarharyadi8]

Envion ICO start today
I think it'is very provitable projeck , with real mining equipment.
So investor will invest in the envion projeck

[ceaa]

I notice a lot of people see the 161% ROI projections and treat it as a guarantee. If you read the whitepaper, it's very clear that there is absolutely no guarantee of any returns anywhere on the website. That being said, Envion did mention themselves that the return could be either higher or lower than the 161% projected.

[matale0]

Its impossible to get some proper returns for thousends of token holders worth millions with thier 1 or 2 conteiners they got. Well in fact 1 working. Will takes forever to see that 161% they will need a lot of working cointeiners.

[cybercash]

Its impossible to get some proper returns for thousends of token holders worth millions with thier 1 or 2 conteiners they got. Well in fact 1 working. Will takes forever to see that 161% they will need a lot of working cointeiners.

That's it what the ICO is all about... To collect money to build hundreds of containers to reach that conservative estimate (no guarantee) of 161%! By the way at this market prices of bitcoin and ethereum the ROI is even higher...