Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest

[bit777]

Quick question dooglus. When new investments come in, does the equity of current holders get devalued, or there is a fixed equity threshold for investments that at some point will deplete?

Each investor is effectively running their own dice site.  They offer up 1% of their investment to anyone who wants to play against them.  The more invested, the more available for players to win per roll.  I started with near 100% of the bankroll, and now, due to people investing, I have 16% or so.  I still risk the same amount per roll, but the max profit per roll is now 15 BTC, whereas before it was much lower.

When someone bet 1 BTC initially, I got to bankroll the whole bet.  Now I only bankroll 16% of the bet.  In order to risk a whole 1% of my investment, I need people to bet the maximum.

Does that answer your question?

55 2013-06-20 20:23:43 (1) manually crediting user 391 with amount 0.01 TheUntitled
56 2013-06-20 20:24:29 (1) manually crediting user 393 with amount 0.01 infested999

It might be a good idea in the long run to have a fixed amount of equity, so that equity grows in value and can become worthy. For example if I invest 100 bitcoins today which will buy me 10% profit share (valuing the site at 1000btc), and you are profiting 100 btc per month, then in 3 months from now you are profiting 1000 btc per month, and my initial 100 btc investment share would be worth 1000 btc. So not only I have gained dividends from the profit, but also multiplied my initial investment. This will allow future trading of shares of the dice site, and will also bring a higher reward to the early investors who committed their hard earned btc by believing in you and your site. Does it make sense?

[1714828096]

1714828096

[1714828096]

1714828096

[1714828096]

1714828096

[247saver]

ID :

Thanks !

[dooglus]

It might be a good idea in the long run to have a fixed amount of equity, so that equity grows in value and can become worthy. For example if I invest 100 bitcoins today which will buy me 10% profit share (valuing the site at 1000btc), and you are profiting 100 btc per month, then in 3 months from now you are profiting 1000 btc per month, and my initial 100 btc investment share would be worth 1000 btc. So not only I have gained dividends from the profit, but also multiplied my initial investment. This will allow future trading of shares of the dice site, and will also bring a higher reward to the early investors who committed their hard earned btc by believing in you and your site. Does it make sense?

It does make sense.  Interesting points.

What I don't understand, and what seems to have gotten SatoshDice into trouble, is how do you grow the betting pool if you never release new shares?  Suppose I say "no more investments once we reach 2000 BTC invested".  Then the betting pool is 2000 forever?  Profits are instantly taken out of the pool?  Or do investors have the option of leaving their profits in, and so getting a bigger percentage of the site?  And as an investor, can I take my investment out, or do I have to find someone to buy it from me?

I have the feeling there's a great idea in here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it clearly yet...

Meanwhile, more free bitcents:

57 2013-06-20 20:33:36 (1) manually crediting user 336 with amount 0.01 MasonIII
58 2013-06-20 21:15:40 (1) manually crediting user 399 with amount 0.01 Emergenz
59 2013-06-20 21:18:30 (1) manually crediting user 400 with amount 0.01 247saver

[Bugpowder]

Quick question dooglus. When new investments come in, does the equity of current holders get devalued, or there is a fixed equity threshold for investments that at some point will deplete?

Each investor is effectively running their own dice site.  They offer up 1% of their investment to anyone who wants to play against them.  The more invested, the more available for players to win per roll.  I started with near 100% of the bankroll, and now, due to people investing, I have 16% or so.  I still risk the same amount per roll, but the max profit per roll is now 15 BTC, whereas before it was much lower.

When someone bet 1 BTC initially, I got to bankroll the whole bet.  Now I only bankroll 16% of the bet.  In order to risk a whole 1% of my investment, I need people to bet the maximum.

Does that answer your question?

55 2013-06-20 20:23:43 (1) manually crediting user 391 with amount 0.01 TheUntitled
56 2013-06-20 20:24:29 (1) manually crediting user 393 with amount 0.01 infested999

It might be a good idea in the long run to have a fixed amount of equity, so that equity grows in value and can become worthy. For example if I invest 100 bitcoins today which will buy me 10% profit share (valuing the site at 1000btc), and you are profiting 100 btc per month, then in 3 months from now you are profiting 1000 btc per month, and my initial 100 btc investment share would be worth 1000 btc. So not only I have gained dividends from the profit, but also multiplied my initial investment. This will allow future trading of shares of the dice site, and will also bring a higher reward to the early investors who committed their hard earned btc by believing in you and your site. Does it make sense?

"Investors" are not buying shares of the site (issuing unregistered shares of any business or site is totally illegal BTW, expect prosecution of asset issuers within the next year or two).  "Investors" are simply taking a proportion of other side of every bet.  It's a different model, and a much less risky one than sites like S.DICE, where shares have a very significant capital price risk.

[dooglus]

It's a different model, and a much less risky one than sites like S.DICE, where shares have a very significant capital price risk.

My SDICE shares have plummeted in price despite the site itself remaining nicely profitable.

I guess future growth of the site was priced in, and that growth failed to materialise.

[bit777]

It might be a good idea in the long run to have a fixed amount of equity, so that equity grows in value and can become worthy. For example if I invest 100 bitcoins today which will buy me 10% profit share (valuing the site at 1000btc), and you are profiting 100 btc per month, then in 3 months from now you are profiting 1000 btc per month, and my initial 100 btc investment share would be worth 1000 btc. So not only I have gained dividends from the profit, but also multiplied my initial investment. This will allow future trading of shares of the dice site, and will also bring a higher reward to the early investors who committed their hard earned btc by believing in you and your site. Does it make sense?

It does make sense.  Interesting points.

What I don't understand, and what seems to have gotten SatoshDice into trouble, is how do you grow the betting pool if you never release new shares?  Suppose I say "no more investments once we reach 2000 BTC invested".  Then the betting pool is 2000 forever?  Profits are instantly taken out of the pool?  Or do investors have the option of leaving their profits in, and so getting a bigger percentage of the site?  And as an investor, can I take my investment out, or do I have to find someone to buy it from me?

I have the feeling there's a great idea in here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it clearly yet...

Meanwhile, more free bitcents:

57 2013-06-20 20:33:36 (1) manually crediting user 336 with amount 0.01 MasonIII
58 2013-06-20 21:15:40 (1) manually crediting user 399 with amount 0.01 Emergenz
59 2013-06-20 21:18:30 (1) manually crediting user 400 with amount 0.01 247saver

You could do it by budgeting and paying out dividends in cycles. Example: The site makes 100 bitcoins this month. You divide that into: 30% towards the site balance, 30% dividends to current investors, 40% site running costs and marketing. This way every month your site balance will grow, your investors will get paid, and you will have money to run it.

Bugpowder, there are a thousand ways to structure this without it being illegal. Selling shares of a company has never been and will never be illegal.  I don't know if dooglus has yet taken the steps to incorporate, etc., but at this very moment he has 1600 btc in investments on his site, and that's about $180k. That's quite the number (and more importantly amassed in a single day) to seriously consider structuring it better.

[Bugpowder]

Bugpowder, there are a thousand ways to structure this without it being illegal. Selling shares of a company has never been and will never be illegal.  I don't know if dooglus has yet taken the steps to incorporate, etc., but at this very moment he has 1600 btc in investments on his site, and that's about $180k. That's quite the number (and more importantly amassed in a single day) to seriously consider structuring it better.

You are not aware of the law. Read up. http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/unregistered-securities.asp.

Offering shares of any investment vehicle or company without registering those shares with the SEC and being licensed to do so is a felony under US law. Enforcement simply hasn't gotten around to going after these wannabe bitcoin financiers. There are advantages for issuers being located in Romania, less so to being located in US or Canada.

Also, surely most of that investment money prefers the current arrangement and would be withdrawn from the site if it were to switch to your model, which has proven great for siphoning off money from the community into the pockets of share issuers (S.DICE made Erik ~50,000BTC), but terrible for a long term ROI for investors (S.DICE trading at ~60% of tier-1 IPO price).  Shares of bitcoin "companies", with rare exceptions, are for pump-and-dump, get-rich-quick shenanigans.

[bit777]

Bugpowder, there are a thousand ways to structure this without it being illegal. Selling shares of a company has never been and will never be illegal.  I don't know if dooglus has yet taken the steps to incorporate, etc., but at this very moment he has 1600 btc in investments on his site, and that's about $180k. That's quite the number (and more importantly amassed in a single day) to seriously consider structuring it better.

You are not aware of the law. Read up. http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/unregistered-securities.asp.

Offering shares of any investment vehicle or company without registering those shares with the SEC and being licensed to do so is a felony under US law. Enforcement simply hasn't gotten around to going after these wannabe bitcoin financiers. There are advantages for issuers being located in Romania, less so to being located in US or Canada.

Also, surely most of that investment money prefers the current arrangement and would be withdrawn from the site if it were to switch to your model, which has proven great for siphoning off money from the community into the pockets of share issuers (S.DICE made Erik ~50,000BTC), but terrible for a long term ROI for investors (S.DICE trading at ~60% of tier-1 IPO price).  Shares of bitcoin "companies", with rare exceptions, are for pump-and-dump, get-rich-quick shenanigans.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/privatecompanystock.asp

Also have in mind, noone said it has to be be a US company. Gambling by itself is prohibited under US law, so dealing with any form of SEC is impossible. Plus we are not talking about a public company, this is more or less a startup with a SEED round of investment. Such investments are unregulated by SEC. It falls more under Angel investing.

Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding

As I said, there are a thousand ways to do it legally.

[Financisto]

Whoa!

Now it's being invested over 1,604 BTC ~ 180,000 USD, not bad at all!

That's what I call capitalization!

It's an outstanding beggining!

Best of luck for all!

[Endloop]

User ID is 428, thank you very much for this! Think I'm going to play around with the invest feature for awhile.

[Bugpowder]

Bugpowder, there are a thousand ways to structure this without it being illegal. Selling shares of a company has never been and will never be illegal.  I don't know if dooglus has yet taken the steps to incorporate, etc., but at this very moment he has 1600 btc in investments on his site, and that's about $180k. That's quite the number (and more importantly amassed in a single day) to seriously consider structuring it better.

You are not aware of the law. Read up. http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/unregistered-securities.asp.

Offering shares of any investment vehicle or company without registering those shares with the SEC and being licensed to do so is a felony under US law. Enforcement simply hasn't gotten around to going after these wannabe bitcoin financiers. There are advantages for issuers being located in Romania, less so to being located in US or Canada.

Also, surely most of that investment money prefers the current arrangement and would be withdrawn from the site if it were to switch to your model, which has proven great for siphoning off money from the community into the pockets of share issuers (S.DICE made Erik ~50,000BTC), but terrible for a long term ROI for investors (S.DICE trading at ~60% of tier-1 IPO price).  Shares of bitcoin "companies", with rare exceptions, are for pump-and-dump, get-rich-quick shenanigans.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/privatecompanystock.asp

Also have in mind, noone said it has to be be a US company. Gambling by itself is prohibited under US law, so dealing with any form of SEC is impossible. Plus we are not talking about a public company, this is more or less a startup with a SEED round of investment. Such investments are unregulated by SEC.

Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding

As I said, there are a thousand ways to do it legally.

Neither of those applies.

The investors are not private company employees, and the crowd funding needs to be done thru certain registered exchanges.

Anyway, I don't want to pollute this thread anymore, we can agree to disagree on all of the points.  I simply don't see either the need for nor the attraction of share issuance.  The site attracted 1600BTC of betting pool backing in under 24 hours and has minimal running costs. The current setup guarantees 99% of profits flow back to backers of the site (compare to S.DICE, where 87% goes into the site creators pocket). There is no share liquidity or capital price risk.  There is minimized legal risk and costs. As a potential pool backer, what more could you want?

[01BTC10]

Look great! Especially the "invest" tab! 

[dooglus]

With alternates out there now other than SD and being off the blockchain and quicker, the only people using SD will be people who absolutely want to hide BTC scammers/hackers or the 1% who dont want their identities known.

I expect there are some people who don't know of the alternatives, and others who only trust SDICE because it's been around the longest, and is known to pay out.

My ID is 421

Thanks and good luck  

Please fix the size of the fonts..

What about them?

60 2013-06-20 22:37:48 (1) manually crediting user 421 with amount 0.01 NoBit
61 2013-06-20 22:41:45 (1) manually crediting user 428 with amount 0.01 Endloop

[toddtervy]

Nice site, feels like the next generation of Bitcoin gambling sites.

[PrintMule]

Wanna try your invest thingy
If free bitcent still applies, would be nice too

ID 439

[dooglus]

Wanna try your invest thingy
If free bitcent still applies, would be nice too

ID 439

The minimum investment is 0.01 BTC.

Which, by an amazing coincidence, is how much I just comped you. 

62 2013-06-20 23:41:40 (1) manually crediting user 439 with amount 0.01 PrintMule

[PrintMule]

Altough I lost my freebit pretty fast, I must say this is the best dice roll website I've seen.

Interface is so smooth, it has chat, hotkeys and other stuff.

Definite recommend to all roll junkies.

[BRules]

just changing the vlees code a little to allow bets with higher multipliers.

Code:

/*
Commands:
start()         - Start the Martingale Bot
stopNow()       - Stop the Martingale Bot
stopAfterWin()  - Stop the Martingale Bot After Winning
*/

//Settings
var initialBet = "0.0000005";
var chanceToWin = "10";

//Your don't need to change anything below here
var payoutMultiplier;
var martingaleMultiplier;
var nextBet;
var bStopNow = false;
var bStopAfterWin = false;

function start() {
    payoutMultiplier = 99/parseFloat(chanceToWin);
    martingaleMultiplier = payoutMultiplier/(payoutMultiplier-1);
    nextBet = parseFloat(initialBet);
    roll();
}

function stopNow() {
    bStopNow = true;
}

function stopAfterWin() {
    bStopAfterWin = true;
}

function roll() {
    var hi_lo = Math.round(Math.random());
    if (hi_lo == 0)
        hi_lo = 'hi';
    else
        hi_lo = 'lo';
    socket.emit("bet", csrf, {
        chance: chanceToWin,
        bet: nextBet.toFixed(8),
        which: hi_lo
    });
}
if (!window.botInitialized) {
    socket.on("result", function (data) {
        if (data.uid == uid) {
            if (data.win) {
                if (bStopNow || bStopAfterWin)
                {
                    bStopNow = false;
                    bStopAfterWin = false;
                    return;
                }
                nextBet = parseFloat(initialBet);
                roll();
            } else {
                if (bStopNow)
                {
                    bStopNow = false;
                    return;
                }
                nextBet = nextBet * martingaleMultiplier;
                roll();
            }
        }
    });
}

window.botInitialized = true;

How to use it (on Chrome):

- Press F12, it will open the developer tools.
- Click on the "Console" tab, paste the code and press enter
- type start() and press enter and you will see the bot betting automatically for you.

[dooglus]

Post your user ID (from the 'account' tab) in this thread and I'll credit you a bitcent to get you started.  You are free to gamble, invest, or just withdraw it as you please.  

451
Thanks!

63 2013-06-21 02:33:08 (1) manually crediting user 451 with amount 0.01 Chuck

Enjoy!

[sootedtho]

invested .5 btc. wish i had more:(

This is gonna take off and im just glad to hget in on the infancy of this great oppertunity!!!