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Author Topic: BiblePay | 10% Charity | POW/POBH CPU Mining *novel* | Sanctuaries  (Read 160859 times)
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bible_pay
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June 21, 2018, 08:03:23 PM
 #8581

1 @ 0.04

Rejected. I've decided that masternode coins can sometimes be acceptable, but Biblepay seems highly deceptive. For example, you say "10% of the emission goes to sponsoring Orphans, with provable contributions," but:
 - 10% of the monthly emission should be somewhere around 6 million coins, but the monthly trade volume tends to be only slightly higher than this, which is unbelievable if you're actually selling the coins in order to make donations.
 - This 10% goes to a hardcoded non-multisig address with no explanation.
 - "THE COIN HAS RPC COMMANDS THAT PROVE 100% OF CONTRIBUTIONS ARE SPENT THE WAY INTENDED" is completely false. The RPC command just totals up all of the payments to the hardcoded address. What happens after the coins go to that address is unexplained.
 - There is no non-profit registration, receipts for donations, any info about the people who are supposedly facilitating donations, etc.
 
Biblepay looks like a generic coin with hardcoded dev subsidy plus some probably-totally-fabricated marketing about orphans.

I saw him replying. Are you going to address his points togoshigekata?

1) is with no doubt false...not sure where he took his data but I saw way more than 6 mil bbp/month sold in the last 2 months on ccex alone...

2) He seems to be referring to the old way tithe was done which is no longer the case since BBP switched to masternodes and dash-like governance....

3) That is true. The RPC commands don't give anything else but the total payments to one address so it prob shouldn't be advertised as that as it is misleading

4) which leads to this point which is untrue. BBP is not registered as a non-profit but there are receipts from Compassion + you can call them to make sure everything matches..not sure if the 2 other charities could also give us "official" documents on what BBP does for them...

He seems to have very misleading information on the current state of BBP and I'm not really sure when he got all of that. All his points but 3) could be addressed really quickly and it seems that there should be massing focus/effort on proving 4) in an easily accessible and reliable way for newcomers...

Also forgot to add that the 10% should probably not be advertised or worded differently as it is "At least" 10% but the actual % has been way more than that.

I'm going to PM him now.  Hes wrong about our monthly volume, he obviously didnt track it.  I believe c-cex has trade history available in the API, and the days that I sold the compassion coins caused Double the volume (not slightly more than) because every coin sold had a buyer.

Hes also wrong about the deceptive nature.  Our RPC command only has the total, but the details are all stored in the sql database, and its pretty easy to reconcile since 95% of our children are 38$ per month (IE each record reverse engineers correctly).

We also had Ginger and Mike Lins statement this month that proves from inception to date all the money went to compassion (which is over 90% of the money we spent on charity).  She also wrote a blurb about our credit balance there.




🕇 BiblePay 🕇
🕇  Announcement | ForumSlackDiscordRedditTwitter | C-CEXSouthXChange  🕇
🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
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June 21, 2018, 08:11:53 PM
 #8582

1 @ 0.04

Rejected. I've decided that masternode coins can sometimes be acceptable, but Biblepay seems highly deceptive. For example, you say "10% of the emission goes to sponsoring Orphans, with provable contributions," but:
 - 10% of the monthly emission should be somewhere around 6 million coins, but the monthly trade volume tends to be only slightly higher than this, which is unbelievable if you're actually selling the coins in order to make donations.
 - This 10% goes to a hardcoded non-multisig address with no explanation.
 - "THE COIN HAS RPC COMMANDS THAT PROVE 100% OF CONTRIBUTIONS ARE SPENT THE WAY INTENDED" is completely false. The RPC command just totals up all of the payments to the hardcoded address. What happens after the coins go to that address is unexplained.
 - There is no non-profit registration, receipts for donations, any info about the people who are supposedly facilitating donations, etc.
 
Biblepay looks like a generic coin with hardcoded dev subsidy plus some probably-totally-fabricated marketing about orphans.

I saw him replying. Are you going to address his points togoshigekata?

1) is with no doubt false...not sure where he took his data but I saw way more than 6 mil bbp/month sold in the last 2 months on ccex alone...

2) He seems to be referring to the old way tithe was done which is no longer the case since BBP switched to masternodes and dash-like governance....

3) That is true. The RPC commands don't give anything else but the total payments to one address so it prob shouldn't be advertised as that as it is misleading

4) which leads to this point which is untrue. BBP is not registered as a non-profit but there are receipts from Compassion + you can call them to make sure everything matches..not sure if the 2 other charities could also give us "official" documents on what BBP does for them...

He seems to have very misleading information on the current state of BBP and I'm not really sure when he got all of that. All his points but 3) could be addressed really quickly and it seems that there should be massing focus/effort on proving 4) in an easily accessible and reliable way for newcomers...

Also forgot to add that the 10% should probably not be advertised or worded differently as it is "At least" 10% but the actual % has been way more than that.

I'm going to PM him now.  Hes wrong about our monthly volume, he obviously didnt track it.  I believe c-cex has trade history available in the API, and the days that I sold the compassion coins caused Double the volume (not slightly more than) because every coin sold had a buyer.

Hes also wrong about the deceptive nature.  Our RPC command only has the total, but the details are all stored in the sql database, and its pretty easy to reconcile since 95% of our children are 38$ per month (IE each record reverse engineers correctly).

We also had Ginger and Mike Lins statement this month that proves from inception to date all the money went to compassion (which is over 90% of the money we spent on charity).  She also wrote a blurb about our credit balance there.


I think he's specifically talking about this wording "THE COIN HAS RPC COMMANDS THAT PROVE 100% OF CONTRIBUTIONS ARE SPENT THE WAY INTENDED".

He's right on that point. There are other way other than the RPC commands but the RPC commands alone do not  "PROVE 100% OF CONTRIBUTIONS ARE SPENT THE WAY INTENDED". That wording should be modified. It is misleading.

As I said in the previous post, there should be an easier/faster way to prove the legitimacy of BBP other than the pool website.

1) You have to know that the information you want is there (aka it is not just a pool to mine)
2) Create an account
3) Try to find and reconcile the information yourself (including the proposals from the forum, etc)

Not all the information you need is also there such as more info about the two other charities or how to call Compassion to verify the documents are not fabricated.

I also think a mention of BBP on the official websites of the two other charities would be great on top of some sort of official statement/document to prove what BBP does for them.

In the end, there should be way to verify BBP claims in less than 10 minutes.

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June 21, 2018, 08:27:02 PM
 #8583

Just gonna add that in the meantime, I think "accountability.biblepay.org" should be way more advertised. It does not provide enough information alone (how to prove documents are not fabricated, reconcile BBP amount sold with proposals, other charities, etc.) but it is a good start.

Yes, you can click on the link in the wallet but that would assume I already have installed the wallet which I wouldn't do before "checking" the coin. I think that URL should be somewhere very noticeable on the official website and in the OP too.
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June 21, 2018, 08:39:42 PM
 #8584

Brian, you make amazing points, all of them. So glad to have you here!

Just wanted to say that and nothing else, because right now I am at a loss of words regarding theymos.
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June 21, 2018, 09:07:44 PM
 #8585

** Huge News for Mac **

We are now fully supporting the Mac OS!

Web site being updated now with mac download link:

https://www.biblepay.org/biblepaycore.dmg

Please test this on various mac flavors!

Great job MIP for making this happen!  MIP is debugging MacOSX in house and making releases.

Not sure why, but requires macOS 10.13 or later.

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June 21, 2018, 10:31:36 PM
 #8586

Theymos Response to BiblePay Banner Ad Auction Bid:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4471292.msg40517470#msg40517470

===

What Evidence/Proof do we have of 10% Charity Donations?

--

COMPASSION INTL
ORGANIZATION NAME: BIBLEPAY
ACCOUNT #: 07816292

PHONE# : (800) 336-7676
HOURS: Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.
Mailing address: Compassion International Colorado Springs, CO 80997
ORG CONTACT: ROBERT A.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BiblePay/comments/7dtwx8/compassion_charity_accountability/

--

"All of our Actual Orphan ID #s are listed in:
http://accountability.biblepay.org/ in Orphan List | Active.

Also, the receipts I posted in EXPENSES are the actual payments I made on my credit card.
I have a copy here in case the IRS comes to my house." -Rob
http://accountability.biblepay.org/

--

Testimonials from BLOOM and CameroonONE
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg39527580#msg39527580

--

Tmike talking to Ginger from Compassion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg39981340#msg39981340

Rob's Scan of Ginger's Pamphlet:
http://pool.biblepay.org/san/mission/CompassionMeetingGinger.pdf

====================================

Compassion International
https://www.compassion.com/

Contact:
Area Director of Donor Relations - ‎Compassion International - Ginger Langehennig
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginger-langehennig-4b31981b/

Proposals:
December - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=53.0
February - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=105.0
March - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=137.0
April - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=162.0
May - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=181.0
June - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=195.0

Pictures:
https://pool.biblepay.org/ >>> Orphans >>> Sponsored Orphan List

===

BLOOM (Be Love Orphan Outreach Missions)
http://www.bloomworldwide.org/

Contact:
Executive Director, April Wareham

Proposals:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=73.0
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=150.0
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=186.0

Pictures:
https://biblepaysponsorkids.tumblr.com/post/171897500699/thank-you-bible-pay-the-children-in-uganda-have

===

CameroonONE
https://www.cameroonone.org/

Contact:
Director of Operations, Todd Finklestone

Proposals:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=86.0

Pictures:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fs0ckd8gvjuilko/AACdrA4JyiOhdeZR4DZkpnEUa?dl=0

====

Is there any documentation I am missing?

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June 21, 2018, 10:42:12 PM
 #8587

Theymos Response to BiblePay Banner Ad Auction Bid:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4471292.msg40517470#msg40517470

===

What Evidence/Proof do we have of 10% Charity Donations?

--

COMPASSION INTL
ORGANIZATION NAME: BIBLEPAY
ACCOUNT #: 07816292

PHONE# : (800) 336-7676
HOURS: Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.
Mailing address: Compassion International Colorado Springs, CO 80997
ORG CONTACT: ROBERT A.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BiblePay/comments/7dtwx8/compassion_charity_accountability/

--

"All of our Actual Orphan ID #s are listed in:
http://accountability.biblepay.org/ in Orphan List | Active.

Also, the receipts I posted in EXPENSES are the actual payments I made on my credit card.
I have a copy here in case the IRS comes to my house." -Rob
http://accountability.biblepay.org/

--

Testimonials from BLOOM and CameroonONE
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg39527580#msg39527580

--

Tmike talking to Ginger from Compassion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg39981340#msg39981340

Rob's Scan of Ginger's Pamphlet:
http://pool.biblepay.org/san/mission/CompassionMeetingGinger.pdf

====================================

Compassion International
https://www.compassion.com/

Contact:
Area Director of Donor Relations - ‎Compassion International - Ginger Langehennig
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginger-langehennig-4b31981b/

Proposals:
December - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=53.0
February - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=105.0
March - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=137.0
April - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=162.0
May - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=181.0
June - https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=195.0

Pictures:
https://pool.biblepay.org/ >>> Orphans >>> Sponsored Orphan List

===

BLOOM (Be Love Orphan Outreach Missions)
http://www.bloomworldwide.org/

Contact:
Executive Director, April Wareham

Proposals:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=73.0
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=150.0
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=186.0

Pictures:
https://biblepaysponsorkids.tumblr.com/post/171897500699/thank-you-bible-pay-the-children-in-uganda-have

===

CameroonONE
https://www.cameroonone.org/

Contact:
Director of Operations, Todd Finklestone

Proposals:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=86.0

Pictures:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fs0ckd8gvjuilko/AACdrA4JyiOhdeZR4DZkpnEUa?dl=0

====

Is there any documentation I am missing?

Nice list Togo! I have all receipts from CameroonONE, if all goes according to plan they will be added to accountability.biblepay.org in the near future Smiley

🕇 BiblePay 🕇
🕇 Announcement | ForumDiscordRedditTwitter | C-CEXQIEX 🕇
🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
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June 21, 2018, 10:44:02 PM
 #8588

It would be nice for the 2 other charities (BLOOM and CameroonONE) to have an official document/statement and/or mention on their websites as just "testimonials" reported by someone are not really a proof of anything.
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June 21, 2018, 10:58:54 PM
 #8589

So I just called Compassion myself and for what it is worth, it was a bit troublesome to get the info but the guy said there was only 60 children sponsored right now? Is there more than this account? ACCOUNT #: 07816292

Could you check with them what happened with the other children @Rob? Also, it would be nice if you could ask them to add a note to the account to make it a little easier to get that info.
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June 21, 2018, 11:08:51 PM
 #8590

All outbound orphan letters to compassion, bloom and cameroon one have been sent.

Thanks for getting that done! It's been a great experience writing letter to orphans. I always read the letters from them first to get a glimpse into their lives, it's really awesome to see the different BiblePay is making in these kids' lives.

I agree Smiley I always read the inbound letters and reply to the things that the children (or their guardians) talk about. I think it's awesome that we are able to make a difference in this way.

As a sidenote: would you be willing to PM me a short testimonial for the website about how you experience the writing of letters? Or could I perhaps use what you have written? I already have one testimonial, but I'd love to have some more Smiley

🕇 BiblePay 🕇
🕇 Announcement | ForumDiscordRedditTwitter | C-CEXQIEX 🕇
🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
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June 21, 2018, 11:50:20 PM
 #8591

Just gonna add that in the meantime, I think "accountability.biblepay.org" should be way more advertised. It does not provide enough information alone (how to prove documents are not fabricated, reconcile BBP amount sold with proposals, other charities, etc.) but it is a good start.

Yes, you can click on the link in the wallet but that would assume I already have installed the wallet which I wouldn't do before "checking" the coin. I think that URL should be somewhere very noticeable on the official website and in the OP too.

Work is underway on making the accountability page more complete (adding BLOOM and CameroonONE, and also give more information).

In addition to the testimonials, BLOOM has mentioned us in a Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/Beloveorphanoutreach/posts/1603251943055348

And in their newsletter:
https://mailchi.mp/bceb933b9ea4/updates-straight-from-africa

Both these links will be available on the new website.

Besides this, they have provided profiles of the children we are sponsoring with them that are available on pool.biblepay.org.

CameroonONE currently doesn't have any mention of us on their website or in newsletters, but they have created a 'BiblePay and CameroonONE tumblr':
https://www.tumblr.com/dashboard/blog/biblepayandcameroonone
I also have all their receipts. More is underway.

The new website will have a special 'Charities' page. On this page a short introduction will be given for all three currently sponsored charities with links that prove our partnership, for example links to facebook-posts or newsletters (and we also have the testimonials) Smiley

If anyone has more suggestions, please share them!

🕇 BiblePay 🕇
🕇 Announcement | ForumDiscordRedditTwitter | C-CEXQIEX 🕇
🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
bible_pay
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June 21, 2018, 11:55:29 PM
 #8592

So I just called Compassion myself and for what it is worth, it was a bit troublesome to get the info but the guy said there was only 60 children sponsored right now? Is there more than this account? ACCOUNT #: 07816292

Could you check with them what happened with the other children @Rob? Also, it would be nice if you could ask them to add a note to the account to make it a little easier to get that info.

There is no way they can come up with 60, lets have more detailed info on your contact.  T-Mike was successful with 305 plus 3 months of prepaid, so that contradicts your call.

Regarding the RPC, let's make it so the statement of 100% provable by the RPC.  I don't agree that accountability.biblepay is not 100% provable.  Over time, it has been 100% provable. 

So today, you do have enough info to see that we are not a scam.

Don't error on the side of Theymos, which is on the side of ignorance and guessing, it's not common sense to error that way.


🕇 BiblePay 🕇
🕇  Announcement | ForumSlackDiscordRedditTwitter | C-CEXSouthXChange  🕇
🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
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June 22, 2018, 12:02:59 AM
 #8593

So I just called Compassion myself and for what it is worth, it was a bit troublesome to get the info but the guy said there was only 60 children sponsored right now? Is there more than this account? ACCOUNT #: 07816292

Could you check with them what happened with the other children @Rob? Also, it would be nice if you could ask them to add a note to the account to make it a little easier to get that info.

There is no way they can come up with 60, lets have more detailed info on your contact.  T-Mike was successful with 305 plus 3 months of prepaid, so that contradicts your call.

Regarding the RPC, let's make it so the statement of 100% provable by the RPC.  I don't agree that accountability.biblepay is not 100% provable.  Over time, it has been 100% provable.  

So today, you do have enough info to see that we are not a scam.

Don't error on the side of Theymos, which is on the side of ignorance and guessing, it's not common sense to error that way.



I'm not doing anything but reporting on what I have. Do I believe you fabricated the receipts and are not sponsoring the amount of children you say you are sponsoring? No.

Having said that, we can just work together on making sure that everyone can be sure of the same thing. That is all I am saying.

"I don't agree that accountability.biblepay is not 100% provable. Over time, it has been 100% provable." If I was running an elaborate scam, I could fabricate receipts. That's why the only 100% proof is to check with the charity itself. I could argue that anything you provide could be fabricated. Again, I do not believe it is the case.

I do not agree on your "common sense" comment. I believe it is more common sense to be careful, especially in the altcoin markets, than just believing everything at face value...as there is a lot of scam. To make sure the message is conveyed to you, I do not believe BBP is that.

T-Mike emailed someone. I just called the Compassion number and explained that I wanted to check how many children were sponsored under that account # and name and the guy gave me 60. I do not know how he came up with that number, but that's the number he gave me. Maybe you can check with them? Also, could add a note to make it easy for people calling to check that too?

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June 22, 2018, 04:12:47 AM
 #8594

Hmmm why the discrepancy? Compassion.com has been around a long time... Hope it is just an error in number lookup or accounting.

Theymos point about not having multisig address is a concern if Rob has a catastrophic malady. There's no backup if no one else has the private key.

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June 22, 2018, 04:22:32 AM
 #8595

Hmmm why the discrepancy? Compassion.com has been around a long time... Hope it is just an error in number lookup or accounting.

Theymos point about not having multisig address is a concern if Rob has a catastrophic malady. There's no backup if no one else has the private key.

The reason for the discrepancy is not known yet but I am sure Rob will sort it out. Again, I am not doubting the legitimacy of BBP or the number of children sponsored. I just want to make sure the house is in order first as it will be easier to convince others.
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June 22, 2018, 04:54:50 AM
 #8596

we wrote together on telegram almost 2 hours and owners and supporters in telegram told/wrote me that BBP is scam  Shocked  it was ppl from exchange C2CX and telegram chat
they carefully looked at the whole of the coin

very weird

🕇 BiblePay - CPU only | Masternodes | ROSETTA@HOME Curing diseases | 10% goes to charity 🕇

BiblePay (BBP) | Reddit - Twitter - Forum - Slack - Discord | C-CEX - CoinsMarkets
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June 22, 2018, 08:08:37 AM
 #8597

@Brian879 and Slovakia

I understand your points. The crypto-space is a place where there are more scams than legitimate projects, so it's understandable that people are suspicious. We can prove them wrong by doing two things:

1. Stay our course and show them by example that we are doing good.
2. Make it easier for people to come see and find out that we're not a scam.

Point 1 is for each individual and point 2 is for us as a community (for instance, by making things easier to verify).

Also, the multisig address is not a grave concern in my view, because the received BBP is quickly exchanged for dollars and spent on the charities. There aren't significant amounts being held for long times. The only example could be my New Exchange Fund (but it's unrelated to charities and people know how to act if I might disappear). I could absolutely make that an multisig address if needed Smiley

🕇 BiblePay 🕇
🕇 Announcement | ForumDiscordRedditTwitter | C-CEXQIEX 🕇
🕇 A Christian cryptocurrency | Supporting orphans through a decentralized autonomous charity 🕇
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June 22, 2018, 08:39:29 AM
 #8598

im still dont understand where is transparent link from selling BBP when im asked Rob,in other side he deleted my questions, transparent bank account where Rob sending $/€, where is PR on compassion page that BIBLEPAY sponsoring children?   

🕇 BiblePay - CPU only | Masternodes | ROSETTA@HOME Curing diseases | 10% goes to charity 🕇

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June 22, 2018, 10:50:57 AM
 #8599

Hi Guys

I would like to ask something. After I send exec podcupdate I get the message:
03:42:08
exec podcupdate
03:42:57
{
  "Command": "podcupdate",
  "PODCUpdate": "Unable to locate enough funds for this transaction that are not equal 1000 biblepay."
}

From the wallet I use also for MN (MN started today morning)

Getboincinfo is showing:

"Command": "getboincinfo",
  "CPID": "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b",
  "Address": "BQQKNgdp6xYevek2K1PumrG2WvhUqnGQAh",
  "CPIDS": "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b;",
  "CPID-Age (hours)": 424906,
  "NextSuperblockHeight": 54120,
  "NextSuperblockBudget": 1144187,
  "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b_ADDRESS": "BQQKNgdp6xYevek2K1PumrG2WvhUqnGQAh",
  "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b_RAC": 29692.83,
  "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b_TEAM": 15044,
  "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b_WCGRAC": 0,
  "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b_TaskWeight": 100,
  "71ab1db88109cd3fa2f798b8a8a2c15b_UTXOWeight": 644479,
  "Total_RAC": 29692.83,
  "Total Payments (One Day)": 3799,
  "Total Payments (One Week)": 26596,
  "Total Budget (One Day)": 1144187,
  "Total Budget (One Week)": 8009309,
  "Superblock Count (One Week)": 8,
  "Superblock Hit Count (One Week)": 8,
  "Superblock List": "53915,53710,53505,53300,53095,52890,52685,52480",
  "Last Superblock Height": 53915,
  "Last Superblock Budget": 1144187,
  "Last Superblock Payment": 3799,
  "Magnitude (One-Day)": 3.320261460757726,
  "Magnitude (One-Week)": 3.320636024905519
}

From the Morning I dont have any podcupdate.

Could somebody send me advice what is the problem?

Thank You.
bible_pay
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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords


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June 22, 2018, 11:32:54 AM
 #8600

im still dont understand where is transparent link from selling BBP when im asked Rob,in other side he deleted my questions, transparent bank account where Rob sending $/€, where is PR on compassion page that BIBLEPAY sponsoring children?   

You shouldnt be sponsoring our orphans with stolen electricity.

No, I deleted your posts with swears.

I actually responded to all the legitimate questions, sometimes with questions but you never responded because you don't read back nor care.


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