Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game

[danieldaniel]

why not just require a few hundred satoshi per post?

Someone could always make a script to send the BTC.  It wouldn't prevent spam, and someone could create 10k posts with 0.01 BTC.

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[Noitev]

I got 2 of my posts deleted from oldminer's thread. Do I get a prize?

Seriously Dooglus, that site is a nightmare.

[Rannasha]

I got 2 of my posts deleted from oldminer's thread. Do I get a prize?

Seriously Dooglus, that site is a nightmare.

Me too, shall we share the prize?

[VTC]

Looks like a new dice competitor with a slick design is now offering investors 1%, 2% or 3% house edge. Combined with leveraged investment with a kelly ranging from 0.25 to 10x.

Can we please get a custom kelly at least?  Being able to use leverage would reduce counterpart risk for investors, and would reduce the site owner from being a target of extortion/ransom/violence.

[ASICSRUS]

Provably fair means that you can use math to repeat the exact roll and get the same outcome. There's no way to cheat gamblers. You know you can prove every bet in the site's existence was fair by looking at bet seeds?  But everyone knows math is just someone's opinion...

Back to more serious topics,  is dooglas' name taken from Chester's invisible friend from sifl and olly (the sock puppet?)

Provably fair is like saying "Fresh Frozen"
 My understanding and experience It's a bullshit term used by these scammers who operate slanted "dice" sites. I know that the raising the bet amount effects the overall system in a way that mitagates loss to the owner. Not to mention these dirtbags are tracking your ip address while doing everything in their power to remain anonymous themselves! I will identify all the bad actors here, and let you all decide: believe me this is nothing new when it comes to due dilligence! 

[jlcooke]

Fun feature suggestion:

Google Auth Poker (was RSA SecurID Poker)

I do this for fun at work.  We all decide that on the next 6-digit code update we'd each try to form our best 5-card hand.

Eg:
 Alice: 123456  (Straight to the 6)
 Bob: 111333 (Full House - 3 full of 1s)
 Charlie: 121434 (2 pair - 4s and 1s)

So, Alice would win.

just-dice having given out so many Google Auth codes could have a 1% fee to the house for any players (up to 8 ) wanting to play.

Thoughts?

[xypos]

Fun feature suggestion:

Google Auth Poker (was RSA SecurID Poker)

I do this for fun at work.  We all decide that on the next 6-digit code update we'd each try to form our best 5-card hand.

Eg:
 Alice: 123456  (Straight to the 6)
 Bob: 111333 (Full House - 3 full of 1s)
 Charlie: 121434 (2 pair - 4s and 1s)

So, Alice would win.

just-dice having given out so many Google Auth codes could have a 1% fee to the house for any players (up to 8 ) wanting to play.

Thoughts?

Yes, that might be fun, but it should be on a different website. It does not require any investment also.

[dooglus]

I got 2 of my posts deleted from oldminer's thread. Do I get a prize?

Seriously Dooglus, that site is a nightmare.

He deletes posts that point out that the casino is scammy.  My most recently deleted post there:

With provably fair systems being rather simple to implement, I don't see why any serious casino would omit it and why any better would go to a site that hasn't taken the minimal effort to implement it.

The reason is that the result of the game depends on the size of the bankroll.  If the remaining bankroll is less than the amount you are trying to win, the software will guarantee that you don't win.  You can't make that "provably fair", since it is provably not...

What's amazing isn't just that the casino cheats, but that the guys promoting/owning it openly admit that it cheats, and seem to think that it's acceptable to do so.

[dooglus]

Google Auth Poker (was RSA SecurID Poker)

Thoughts?

One massive problem:

You know your google-auth secret.  That lets you know all future 6 digit codes.  So you can easily look ahead and see when your next "6 of a kind" is coming, and wait until then to play.

In short, there's only one seed per player, and they know it.

[paullinator]

There have been a lot of comments that dooglus is possibly the same person/people who have taken alot of the winnings from Justdice. I have been racking my brain on a way to prove that he cannot leverage his knowledge of the server seeds, and I think I thought of something. I apologize if this has already been suggested and disproven as a nonfunctional idea. I tried to look through the forum posts, but with hundreds of pages, it is difficult to search through.

Here's the idea: what if, instead of a single server seed to generate all the random numbers for a user, the server seed is combined with the server clock time (in milliseconds), then hashed to give the random value. On every bet, the exact server clock time used to generate the random number is posted alongside with the bet and its results. In addition, the seeds are automatically changed on a regular basis, such as hourly or daily, and everyone's prior seeds can be publicly looked up.  if a player appears to have unreasonably good luck and high winnings, their seeds can be looked up and hashed with the server times of their bets to prove fairness of their results.

Thoughts?

[ASICSRUS]

There have been a lot of comments that dooglus is possibly the same person/people who have taken alot of the winnings from Justdice. I have been racking my brain on a way to prove that he cannot leverage his knowledge of the server seeds, and I think I thought of something. I apologize if this has already been suggested and disproven as a nonfunctional idea. I tried to look through the forum posts, but with hundreds of pages, it is difficult to search through.

Here's the idea: what if, instead of a single server seed to generate all the random numbers for a user, the server seed is combined with the server clock time (in milliseconds), then hashed to give the random value. On every bet, the exact server clock time used to generate the random number is posted alongside with the bet and its results. In addition, the seeds are automatically changed on a regular basis, such as hourly or daily, and everyone's prior seeds can be publicly looked up.  if a player appears to have unreasonably good luck and high winnings, their seeds can be looked up and hashed with the server times of their bets to prove fairness of their results.

Thoughts?

anything tha isn't published instantly (somewhere 3rd party?) can always be modified to benefit the bad actor!no? 

[ASICSRUS]

I got 2 of my posts deleted from oldminer's thread. Do I get a prize?

Seriously Dooglus, that site is a nightmare.

He deletes posts that point out that the casino is scammy.  My most recently deleted post there:

With provably fair systems being rather simple to implement, I don't see why any serious casino would omit it and why any better would go to a site that hasn't taken the minimal effort to implement it.

The reason is that the result of the game depends on the size of the bankroll.  If the remaining bankroll is less than the amount you are trying to win, the software will guarantee that you don't win.  You can't make that "provably fair", since it is provably not...

What's amazing isn't just that the casino cheats, but that the guys promoting/owning it openly admit that it cheats, and seem to think that it's acceptable to do so.

i caught your site cheating via ip tracking...is that acceptable to you? 

[Rannasha]

There have been a lot of comments that dooglus is possibly the same person/people who have taken alot of the winnings from Justdice. I have been racking my brain on a way to prove that he cannot leverage his knowledge of the server seeds, and I think I thought of something. I apologize if this has already been suggested and disproven as a nonfunctional idea. I tried to look through the forum posts, but with hundreds of pages, it is difficult to search through.

Here's the idea: what if, instead of a single server seed to generate all the random numbers for a user, the server seed is combined with the server clock time (in milliseconds), then hashed to give the random value. On every bet, the exact server clock time used to generate the random number is posted alongside with the bet and its results. In addition, the seeds are automatically changed on a regular basis, such as hourly or daily, and everyone's prior seeds can be publicly looked up.  if a player appears to have unreasonably good luck and high winnings, their seeds can be looked up and hashed with the server times of their bets to prove fairness of their results.

Thoughts?

The operator (dooglus) could in this case write a simple server-side script that only accepts rolls from a specific user-id (the alter-ego account he'd use in this scenario) if they win, otherwise pretend the rolls never happened. All rolls that do take place would be perfectly verifiable.

The gist of it: As long as the server and the roll-process are under the control of a single person or group of persons collaborating, there is always a way to cheat. From very obvious cheats like just running away with the cold wallet to very subtle ones like allowing staff-controlled accounts to have slightly better odds.

There's a way to distribute the rolling process between different servers, each controlled by a different person. But in this scenario, you'd have to trust the server operators not to collaborate to cheat the system.

In the end, it still boils down to trust. There is little you can do to prevent an untrustworthy operator from cheating you. Just pick your websites with care before you deposit.

[maqifrnswa]

There have been a lot of comments that dooglus is possibly the same person/people who have taken alot of the winnings from Justdice. I have been racking my brain on a way to prove that he cannot leverage his knowledge of the server seeds, and I think I thought of something. I apologize if this has already been suggested and disproven as a nonfunctional idea. I tried to look through the forum posts, but with hundreds of pages, it is difficult to search through.

Here's the idea: what if, instead of a single server seed to generate all the random numbers for a user, the server seed is combined with the server clock time (in milliseconds), then hashed to give the random value. On every bet, the exact server clock time used to generate the random number is posted alongside with the bet and its results. In addition, the seeds are automatically changed on a regular basis, such as hourly or daily, and everyone's prior seeds can be publicly looked up.  if a player appears to have unreasonably good luck and high winnings, their seeds can be looked up and hashed with the server times of their bets to prove fairness of their results.

Thoughts?

The operator (dooglus) could in this case write a simple server-side script that only accepts rolls from a specific user-id (the alter-ego account he'd use in this scenario) if they win, otherwise pretend the rolls never happened. All rolls that do take place would be perfectly verifiable.

The gist of it: As long as the server and the roll-process are under the control of a single person or group of persons collaborating, there is always a way to cheat. From very obvious cheats like just running away with the cold wallet to very subtle ones like allowing staff-controlled accounts to have slightly better odds.

There's a way to distribute the rolling process between different servers, each controlled by a different person. But in this scenario, you'd have to trust the server operators not to collaborate to cheat the system.

In the end, it still boils down to trust. There is little you can do to prevent an untrustworthy operator from cheating you. Just pick your websites with care before you deposit.

I know you pretty much say it, but I think it's worth explicitly mentioning: only investors get screwed in that scenario. It's still fair for the gamblers.

[ASICSRUS]

There have been a lot of comments that dooglus is possibly the same person/people who have taken alot of the winnings from Justdice. I have been racking my brain on a way to prove that he cannot leverage his knowledge of the server seeds, and I think I thought of something. I apologize if this has already been suggested and disproven as a nonfunctional idea. I tried to look through the forum posts, but with hundreds of pages, it is difficult to search through.

Here's the idea: what if, instead of a single server seed to generate all the random numbers for a user, the server seed is combined with the server clock time (in milliseconds), then hashed to give the random value. On every bet, the exact server clock time used to generate the random number is posted alongside with the bet and its results. In addition, the seeds are automatically changed on a regular basis, such as hourly or daily, and everyone's prior seeds can be publicly looked up.  if a player appears to have unreasonably good luck and high winnings, their seeds can be looked up and hashed with the server times of their bets to prove fairness of their results.

Thoughts?

The operator (dooglus) could in this case write a simple server-side script that only accepts rolls from a specific user-id (the alter-ego account he'd use in this scenario) if they win, otherwise pretend the rolls never happened. All rolls that do take place would be perfectly verifiable.

The gist of it: As long as the server and the roll-process are under the control of a single person or group of persons collaborating, there is always a way to cheat. From very obvious cheats like just running away with the cold wallet to very subtle ones like allowing staff-controlled accounts to have slightly better odds.

There's a way to distribute the rolling process between different servers, each controlled by a different person. But in this scenario, you'd have to trust the server operators not to collaborate to cheat the system.

In the end, it still boils down to trust. There is little you can do to prevent an untrustworthy operator from cheating you. Just pick your websites with care before you deposit.

I know you pretty much say it, but I think it's worth explicitly mentioning: only investors get screwed in that scenario. It's still fair for the gamblers.

"investing" in POS companies like this one is a huge gamble imho!  

[galbros]

Looks like a new dice competitor with a slick design is now offering investors 1%, 2% or 3% house edge. Combined with leveraged investment with a kelly ranging from 0.25 to 10x.

Can we please get a custom kelly at least?  Being able to use leverage would reduce counterpart risk for investors, and would reduce the site owner from being a target of extortion/ransom/violence.

What's really amazing is that if you look at the number of bets and the amounts bet the 3% pool has a considerable amount of action.  I would not have thought this possible as it seems illogical why anyone would choose to shoot against a 3% house advantage rather than a 1% are higher limits really that attractive?

Dooglus, I know you keep an eye on the competition, but checking this out may be a worthy use of your time, there may be more of an opportunity for a higher house edge on JD than I would have thought.

[dooglus]

instead of a single server seed to generate all the random numbers for a user, the server seed is combined with the server clock time (in milliseconds), then hashed to give the random value

I don't see how that's provably fair for players any more.

Suppose you send me a bet at 12:34:56.001

I check the roll corresponding to that time.  You win.  I can't have that, so I try 12:34:56.002 instead.  That makes you lose, so I publish that timestamp.

You can't be sure whether the server saw your bet request at .001 or .002 so you have to trust me to tell you.  And it doesn't do anything to stop me as server operator placing and winning my own bets.

[dooglus]

i caught your site cheating via ip tracking...is that acceptable to you? 

What does that even mean?  The only inputs to the roll algorithm are:

1) server seed
2) client seed
3) roll number (nonce)

Nothing about bet size, chance to win, or IP address.

Please, pick an option:

1) try to understand how the site works; if you need help, ask for it
2) stop talking about how the site works; you know nothing about it

If you still want to bet 10 BTC that bet size or IP address affects the number rolled, I am more than happy to take that bet.  I strongly suspect you don't have 10 BTC, given how much you cried when you lost 0.01 BTC on JD.

[Noitev]

i caught your site cheating via ip tracking...is that acceptable to you? 

What does that even mean?  The only inputs to the roll algorithm are:

1) server seed
2) client seed
3) roll number (nonce)

Nothing about bet size, chance to win, or IP address.

Please, pick an option:

1) try to understand how the site works; if you need help, ask for it
2) stop talking about how the site works; you know nothing about it

If you still want to bet 10 BTC that bet size or IP address affects the number rolled, I am more than happy to take that bet.  I strongly suspect you don't have 10 BTC, given how much you cried when you lost 0.01 BTC on JD.

Now, Now Dooglus. he is on ignore, remember?

[pascal257]

Now, Now Dooglus. he is on ignore, remember?

He couldn't resist the temptation.