Historic Cryptogenic Bullion thread - CLOSED

[elambert]

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[papersheepdog]

Interesting coin. When approx it is going to be PoS only by the way?

CGB will remain a PoW/PoS hybrid. The PoW subsidy will halve until the baseline of .01 CGB per block is reached where it will remain. This will keep holders earning interest while at the same time further securing the block chain via PoW mining and PoS stake mining. An attack on a PoW/PoS hybrid would have to consist of not only control of greater than 50% of hashing power (as with most other coins) but also would require ownership of greater than 50% of the staked coins. The PoS addition essentially means that any potential attacker would have to be a majority owner of CGB as well as the majority miner and thereby the attack would predominantly be against themselves.

I feel that the PoS needs to be higher. The supposed mirroring of monetary inflation is irrelevant at this stage.

10% pa, with 7 days qualification cycle would give sufficient incentive. Any opinions ?

I am pretty sure you will hear a resounding NO from all members of the community.

A temporary price boost from new comers who want to stake the coin is not worth, like i said before, runaway inflation and destroying the marketing hook it has had from the beginning.  All it does is give a temporary price boost, long term it sends it to zero.

What do you think the price of PHS, HBN, TEK, BCX will be by next year?  Do you think 10%+ inflation is good for something which aims to be a currency?

If the goal here is just to temporarily pump up the price so that we can dump off our stakes and watch the coin supply skyrocket and the price plummet, hey no problem.  Just clue me in that this is the plan and I'll dump as soon as we break 0.001 again.  But I thought at this point CGB had established itself as more than just a pump and dump scam.

I don't even understand why the PoS reward is being brought up.  The price isn't where it is today because the PoS reward is too low.  The price is where it is today because of the developments of the last couple days, large holders dumping, and disinterest from the latest wave of newbies who hit the scene in nov/dec because they were too late to mine any significant amount (but they seem to love QRK, doesn't make sense to me).

'Skyrocket' in supply is not really the word I would use for 10% pa inflation.

IMO it is a healthy level. 

When a coin reaches maturity, then 2% maybe an appropriate inflation level. There are years to go yet...Even BTC is not mature, and CGB still has to survive its infancy.


Time and price will tell all.

I would like to thank everyone for their input on the fundamentals here but I have to set something very straight. CGB's reward structure will not be changing in any way which will affect its inflation. These fundamentals are set in stone and were designed in the first place to reflect the supply of gold by a certain time. Investors have counted on the fact that we will be maintaining this schedule and we will not be adjusting it to needlessly attract miners. It is possible that the PoS minting schedules could be adjusted without causing such drastic change if it were studied and felt necessary.

I wrote in my last paper how miners and investors do not understand each other. Here is a case. Majormax is speaking from the perspective of a miner in that he wants more inflation to get free coins and further distribute CGB. From the investor perspective, we are now able to start loading up on CGB without worrying about such an inflationary dump! This is exactly why we WILL NOT BE adjusting the fundamentals. The time for mining is coming to its long term subsidy of 0.5% inflation where minting will be providing a max of 1.5% to prudent savers.

Here is an excerpt from my paper titled Entrenched Interests, Lost Direction, and Stagnation in the Crypto-Currency Markets:

Let’s explore the psychology of the miner and the investor. The miner wants to create a new coin with high initial reward so they can reap it all and sell for a quick buck. The investor sees this activity as a ponzi type scheme where new capital must flow to match the mining dump just to prevent the unit price from collapsing. If a currency is just beginning, it's hardly worth putting any capital in at all. Doing the math and you will see that your investment is inflating away at an alarming rate while the miners dump for profit. Some people think that miners will hold on to valuable new coins but this is not true because mining implies a lower value of each new coin and the first miner to sell realizes the highest price. A miner who waits is hoping that boatloads of cash come sailing in from somewhere. Smart investors don't want to touch that unless it’s a truly revolutionary crypto-currency which would bring such a cash flow.

You say that BTC is not mature and its true that the entire ecosystem is evolving. CGB, however, has largely matured past its mining phase. Looking at it for what it is, it's ready for heavier capital flows due to the fact that its already widely distributed, and it does not have a taxing inflation attached to it. This is one of the key fundamentals which we will be working to spread the word about. CGB has made a transformational shift which will allow investors to take over from the miners in driving valuation.

Any discussion is welcome but I have to reiterate that boosting the mining reward is off the table.

[elambert]

Thank you for the clarification PSD. Just so the community is aware, PSD is one of the new official CGB team members and will be heading marketing among other things. Official titles will be announced soon.

[cryptonewbie]

Picked up 700 CGB yesterday.  Increased my stake, rather than losing confidence.  Pretty excited about where this is headed!

Price is still only half of what it was like 2 weeks ago.  Gonna pick up more today.

Love this coin, and great leadership at the top.  Plenty of other coins Ive invested in that were extremely promising, but the developer rarely addressed the concerns of the community.  No such issue here.

[Majormax]

 


Any discussion is welcome but I have to reiterate that boosting the mining reward is off the table.

Thanks for that info (in the longer post), and for your part in the team.

1. I am not a miner. I manage investments and funds (long career in that).

2. Distribution is everything (leading to adoption). I am not convinced that CGB has wide enough dispersal yet, but maybe I have insufficient information. Do you have any relative (to other coins) distribution figures ?

3. It's probably best not to rule anything out: that is just good politics... but I understand the need to set out a prospectus so that holders can make decisions based on certainties.

[bahamapascal]

Guys, don't forget to vote!
We archived great progress , being in the top lines on allcrypt.com and already rallied up halve of the list on mintpal.com in just two days of being listed!
Vote Here:

6 votes per 24 hours: https://www.allcrypt.com/voting.php?

3 votes for non registered users and 6 votes for registered users, each hour: https://www.mintpal.com/voting

Don't forget ecoinfund! We are second in line to be added to this exchange. Also, they are Chinese and this is a target audience we have been trying for some time to reach.
http://www.ecoinfund.com/vote

Thanks for the reminder, I have now edited it

[Trevor]

@elmabert

I think you owe it to investors, believers in CGB, and the community in general to come clean about your commitment and, more importantly, ability to dedicate time to this coin/project. You have said previously that you have a full-time job and other businesses if I am not mistaken, and so it seems unlikely you can attach too much importance to this project. Now doubt this is leading to the question in some investors minds (and it's starting to appear in my mind too) that this was never really nothing more than a bit of a money maker like the vast majority of alts, rather than something that genuinely had big ideas, big innovations, and big potential. To clarify, I'm not suggesting this IS the case, just that you cannot be surprised if those concerns start to appear. You have done a great job of presenting a friendly, helpful and enthusiastic public face, but ultimately that is meaningless without actions, and many people have been able to do this is in the past who then turn out to have completely different agendas. Again, this is definitely NOT the accusation I am laying on elambert, I only mean to say that being able to put on a good public front is not enough. There is no doubt that Mercury would not have made the accusations he did without at least some basis. So I guess what I have to ask is, are you the right man for the job? Are you willing to put in some time, and more importantly effort, to deliver on something you believe in even if this means sacrifices have to be made elsewhere? Or is this just a side project with a few nice ideals and the potential for a bit of a profit?

Anyway, sorry if you think I'm out of line, this isn't intended to be as harsh a criticism as it probably sounds, there is some really good work you've done and I can't possibly know the full picture. But I just wanted to raise some questions and hopefully the community can learn a bit and be given some confidence from your response. Thanks.

[FiniteRed]

@elmabert

I think you owe it to investors, believers in CGB, and the community in general to come clean about your commitment and, more importantly, ability to dedicate time to this coin/project. You have said previously that you have a full-time job and other businesses if I am not mistaken, and so it seems unlikely you can attach too much importance to this project. Now doubt this is leading to the question in some investors minds (and it's starting to appear in my mind too) that this was never really nothing more than a bit of a money maker like the vast majority of alts, rather than something that genuinely had big ideas, big innovations, and big potential. To clarify, I'm not suggesting this IS the case, just that you cannot be surprised if those concerns start to appear. You have done a great job of presenting a friendly, helpful and enthusiastic public face, but ultimately that is meaningless without actions, and many people have been able to do this is in the past who then turn out to have completely different agendas. Again, this is definitely NOT the accusation I am laying on elambert, I only mean to say that being able to put on a good public front is not enough. There is no doubt that Mercury would not have made the accusations he did without at least some basis. So I guess what I have to ask is, are you the right man for the job? Are you willing to put in some time, and more importantly effort, to deliver on something you believe in even if this means sacrifices have to be made elsewhere? Or is this just a side project with a few nice ideals and the potential for a bit of a profit?

Anyway, sorry if you think I'm out of line, this isn't intended to be as harsh a criticism as it probably sounds, there is some really good work you've done and I can't possibly know the full picture. But I just wanted to raise some questions and hopefully the community can learn a bit and be given some confidence from your response. Thanks.

+2

[elambert]

@elmabert

I think you owe it to investors, believers in CGB, and the community in general to come clean about your commitment and, more importantly, ability to dedicate time to this coin/project. You have said previously that you have a full-time job and other businesses if I am not mistaken, and so it seems unlikely you can attach too much importance to this project. Now doubt this is leading to the question in some investors minds (and it's starting to appear in my mind too) that this was never really nothing more than a bit of a money maker like the vast majority of alts, rather than something that genuinely had big ideas, big innovations, and big potential. To clarify, I'm not suggesting this IS the case, just that you cannot be surprised if those concerns start to appear. You have done a great job of presenting a friendly, helpful and enthusiastic public face, but ultimately that is meaningless without actions, and many people have been able to do this is in the past who then turn out to have completely different agendas. Again, this is definitely NOT the accusation I am laying on elambert, I only mean to say that being able to put on a good public front is not enough. There is no doubt that Mercury would not have made the accusations he did without at least some basis. So I guess what I have to ask is, are you the right man for the job? Are you willing to put in some time, and more importantly effort, to deliver on something you believe in even if this means sacrifices have to be made elsewhere? Or is this just a side project with a few nice ideals and the potential for a bit of a profit?

Anyway, sorry if you think I'm out of line, this isn't intended to be as harsh a criticism as it probably sounds, there is some really good work you've done and I can't possibly know the full picture. But I just wanted to raise some questions and hopefully the community can learn a bit and be given some confidence from your response. Thanks.

Fair enough. First off, you have heard one perspective of past events which I experienced quite differently than how they were portrayed in the version you heard. I am not going to launch into a public airing of he said he said, sorry. Secondly, I am not a developer. I came up with the concept for CGB and have to the best of my ability worked to support the talented developers I have worked with. I have made sure to recruit and support the best developers I could find. I have invested a lot of time and money in this venture and continue to do so. I give what I can and yes I have a family, son, full time job and a business venture. I am spread thin but I am not CGB. CGB is an open sourced community run project (just like Bitcoin). Has always been. We have assembled a talented team of 7 individuals who will work together to keep CGB moving forward and the community will be integral to success.

[cryptonewbie]

I think CGB has very strong fundamentals with the limited supply and deflationary aspects that encourage savings.

Leadership is essential to the success of any business, and that was clearly demonstrated yesterday.  Instead of panic, elambert took the high road, found a new developer, and restored confidence to the community.

[elambert]

I think CGB has very strong fundamentals with the limited supply and deflationary aspects that encourage savings.

Leadership is essential to the success of any business, and that was clearly demonstrated yesterday.  Instead of panic, elambert took the high road, found a new developer, and restored confidence to the community.

Thank you my friend.

Additionally I would like to mention that I have been away at a friends wedding this weekend. I think I have shown that I am dedicated despite hardships and can be counted on to make sure the interests of the community are attended to. I will let my actions speak for me.

[papersheepdog]

Any discussion is welcome but I have to reiterate that boosting the mining reward is off the table.

Thanks for that info (in the longer post), and for your part in the team.

1. I am not a miner. I manage investments and funds (long career in that).

2. Distribution is everything (leading to adoption). I am not convinced that CGB has wide enough dispersal yet, but maybe I have insufficient information. Do you have any relative (to other coins) distribution figures ?

3. It's probably best not to rule anything out: that is just good politics... but I understand the need to set out a prospectus so that holders can make decisions based on certainties.

Thanks for your participation Majormax. I see what you are saying and I would love to see some distribution data on CGB and other coins. Unfortunately I don't have that but I have had a long standing request on our CGB community development and marketing strategy document requesting any such data from the community. I don't think its an easy task, but certainly the raw data is freely available.

I want to address the distribution issue by referring back to that document with a quote:  One common misconception about Cryptogenic Bullion is that its shorter mining/inflation stage has not given a wide enough range of individuals the chance to participate as early adopters. We must appreciate that this deployment method was chosen to avoid the long period of inflation which increases the volatility and stagnates most other cryptocurrencies in use today. The CGB community has been very active making every effort to get the word out about CGB and make it available on multiple exchanges. What is not realized is that CGB is still in the early adoption phase but instead of mining coins, the low price is what now enables early adopters to participate in this opportunity. CGB is only just now beginning to realize its potential to the discerning investor.

I just want to say again that I really appreciate your input. In this case it's not the best time to even to entertain the idea while investors are feeling uncertain. We need to fall back on our fundamentals and show that we are the same strong CGB that has and always will be. We must understand that there are almost two separate realms at play here. One is CGB, the crypto-currency, which stands on its own merits as a pillar of strength. The other is CGB, the community, which can change and go through periods of upheaval, but can always rely on the core crypto-currency to remain unscathed by politics in its fundamentals.

Certainly there is always room for debate and I don't want to ever reject any reasoned discussion, but this is a very touchy point Thank you again for your thoughts and participation.

I think CGB has very strong fundamentals with the limited supply and deflationary aspects that encourage savings.

Leadership is essential to the success of any business, and that was clearly demonstrated yesterday.  Instead of panic, elambert took the high road, found a new developer, and restored confidence to the community.

Thank you my friend.

Additionally I would like to mention that I have been away at a friends wedding this weekend. I think I have shown that I am dedicated despite hardships and can be counted on to make sure the interests of the community are attended to. I will let my actions speak for me.

Regarding this and Trevor's note I agree that we must step back and look at the responsibility distribution on the team. I personally feel that the team was too small and this caused a lot of friction. Merc has done us a favour by speaking his mind and backing it up with action. In my opinion, the collective response of the community as a whole has justified what he did (not how he did it). A major issue has been identified and that is that we were not putting in the resources as a community that this project deserves. Elambert is only one man and even with a brilliant dev and perhaps some marketing help, it can only go on that way for so long. No one can be blamed directly for this. Even as investors we all have the power to boost the return on investment by participating! This is just the beginning and I, for one, am grateful for the opportunity that's being presented here. We needed to shake off the old ways and this has been about the strongest catalyst one could ask for. I have been amazed at the community support that has been growing on Reddit. We have plenty of volunteers, and in one short month have turned CGB from a question mark to an exclamation mark. The vision is there, the opportunity is there, the people are rallying around CGB. We will quickly be putting this behind us, but will never forget the lessons learned.

-papersheepdog

[td services]

I think CGB has very strong fundamentals with the limited supply and deflationary aspects that encourage savings.

Leadership is essential to the success of any business, and that was clearly demonstrated yesterday.  Instead of panic, elambert took the high road, found a new developer, and restored confidence to the community.

Thank you my friend.

Additionally I would like to mention that I have been away at a friends wedding this weekend. I think I have shown that I am dedicated despite hardships and can be counted on to make sure the interests of the community are attended to. I will let my actions speak for me.

I would recommend replacing the image of a baby with something a lot more professional to promote the project. Also, you should consider removing the references to your personal life in your bio on the CGB website (i.e. being married and having a child) and avoid references to your personal life in the discussion (like going to weddings or being involved with family and not having time to work on CGB).

After my experience with Mastercoin and the personal life of the founder (very similar to this here) interfering with his work on the project at a very critical time in its development, this is a BIG, BIG red flag to my investing in it. I am very tempted by the low prices to take the plunge, but am sitting on the sidelines, mainly over this issue.

[Hubert]

Sorry for the grammar but I am French and I do not speak very good English.

I strongly believe in that currency, I possesses more than 10,000 CGB but I agree with the previous poster about your family.

I would recommend replacing the image of a baby with something a lot more professional to promote the project. Also, you should consider removing the references to your personal life in your bio on the CGB website

I think the same thing, it does not pro and it costs nothing not to make reference to your family.

it is a world of sharks and appearance matters a lot.

[elambert]

Thanks guys.
1. Avatars cannot be changed on bitcointalk
2. A quick blurb about my family in my bio? You think is negatively effecting CGB?
3. I used a real life example from yesterday as a specific example in response to my dedication, commitment and character being attacked

[Hubert]

Your devotion to the CGB is no doubt for me, I have seen this year.

But the new asking about CGB will simply see a father of a family who does that to pass the time.

You could take another more formal nickname for your ads?

[papersheepdog]

Your devotion to the CGB is no doubt for me, I have seen this year.

But the new asking about CGB will simply see a father of a family who does that to pass the time.

You could take another more formal nickname for your ads?

I see what you are saying Hubert and thank you for stepping up with your opinion. I agree completely with you that we have not been projecting quite the right image and I have had an eye on changing that website since I became active in the community. A lot of the wording is not conveying the proper message in my opinion. I know that elambert is very committed to this project and I can't think of a better leader but you are right we will need to be looking at professional image going forward. When we look back we will see a time of great upheaval in the CGB community, but also we have to see that some things are also unwavering and dependable. Our number one priority as a new team is to make sure that we are taking a look at the big picture and ensuring that resources are allocated efficiently and where needed so that conflicts like this are not necessary in the future.

I will personally make sure that our internal restructuring and our new focus is made public so that anyone who has doubts about what happened will have them laid aside. The only reason I am here is because of what CGB is. Those fundamentals have not changed and I am unphased by these events. Rest assured that what you have all seen here is the start of a new beginning for CGB, which has coincided so perfectly with the end of CGB's volatile inflationary period and the dawn of its investment potential.

I will still be relying on the Open Source Community Development and Marketing Strategy to rally the community and direct our focus. I will also continue to produce papers and documents which reflect the potential of CGB and the crypto-currency ecosystem as a whole. We have something special here and I have made it my job to make sure that people can understand why.

Again, thank you for your participation.

-papersheepdog

[Killiz]

I think CGB has very strong fundamentals with the limited supply and deflationary aspects that encourage savings.

Leadership is essential to the success of any business, and that was clearly demonstrated yesterday.  Instead of panic, elambert took the high road, found a new developer, and restored confidence to the community.

Thank you my friend.

Additionally I would like to mention that I have been away at a friends wedding this weekend. I think I have shown that I am dedicated despite hardships and can be counted on to make sure the interests of the community are attended to. I will let my actions speak for me.

I would recommend replacing the image of a baby with something a lot more professional to promote the project. Also, you should consider removing the references to your personal life in your bio on the CGB website (i.e. being married and having a child) and avoid references to your personal life in the discussion (like going to weddings or being involved with family and not having time to work on CGB).

After my experience with Mastercoin and the personal life of the founder (very similar to this here) interfering with his work on the project at a very critical time in its development, this is a BIG, BIG red flag to my investing in it. I am very tempted by the low prices to take the plunge, but am sitting on the sidelines, mainly over this issue.

I understand the reasoning behind your comments. But I don't believe in any way that elamberts personal life has affected his ability to show his solid commitment to CGB over the last day or so.
If anything it has shown what a greatly committed person he really is. Yes maybe he has revealed a little too much of his commitment to his friends and family, and is this a bad thing? To know that behind the scenes he is as dedicated to them as he is to CGB only shows further his selflessness to everyone else involved around him, either in his immediate family or among the CGB community.
Who? Would step in and gather together a new team to take the reigns of CGB whilst among friends and family on a day that they are supposed to be enjoying and celebrating. Forgetting about work and commitments. Not many at all!

If anything, elambert has proved himself to be a great leader, and outdone his expected commitment to this community, and from here, knowing this, we can only get stronger and have better hopes for the future of CGB, and for our own friends and family along with it.

[VonSpass]

Interesting coin. When approx it is going to be PoS only by the way?

CGB will remain a PoW/PoS hybrid. The PoW subsidy will halve until the baseline of .01 CGB per block is reached where it will remain. This will keep holders earning interest while at the same time further securing the block chain via PoW mining and PoS stake mining. An attack on a PoW/PoS hybrid would have to consist of not only control of greater than 50% of hashing power (as with most other coins) but also would require ownership of greater than 50% of the staked coins. The PoS addition essentially means that any potential attacker would have to be a majority owner of CGB as well as the majority miner and thereby the attack would predominantly be against themselves.

I feel that the PoS needs to be higher. The supposed mirroring of monetary inflation is irrelevant at this stage.

10% pa, with 7 days qualification cycle would give sufficient incentive. Any opinions ?

I find 10% PoS reward a little too high; but I agree with you that 1.5% is much too low, given the current high level of risk, to interest large investors.  The good news with CGB that it wouldnt take many interested parties to make the coin move upwards, but if we want the outcome to change something needs to be done.

[Majormax]

Interesting coin. When approx it is going to be PoS only by the way?

CGB will remain a PoW/PoS hybrid. The PoW subsidy will halve until the baseline of .01 CGB per block is reached where it will remain. This will keep holders earning interest while at the same time further securing the block chain via PoW mining and PoS stake mining. An attack on a PoW/PoS hybrid would have to consist of not only control of greater than 50% of hashing power (as with most other coins) but also would require ownership of greater than 50% of the staked coins. The PoS addition essentially means that any potential attacker would have to be a majority owner of CGB as well as the majority miner and thereby the attack would predominantly be against themselves.

I feel that the PoS needs to be higher. The supposed mirroring of monetary inflation is irrelevant at this stage.

10% pa, with 7 days qualification cycle would give sufficient incentive. Any opinions ?

I find 10% PoS reward a little too high; but I agree with you that 1.5% is much too low, given the current high level of risk, to interest large investors.  The good news with CGB that it wouldnt take many interested parties to make the coin move upwards, but if we want the outcome to change something needs to be done.

It is not so much the large investors that need to be encouraged with interest. IMO the importance of a higher PoS is that it gives the incentive for more wallets to be mining stake at any one time, thus strengthening the network.
A reduction in the qualifying time for coins to mine stake would achieve a similar result.