[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING***

[Biomech]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

Please think of ROI in BTC.... not in fiat.

The point is spending BTC now and you're not gonna get back that amount of BTC. Price goes up, your stash value goes up, contrast to mining.... price goes up, difficulty will continue to rise due to noobs, your mining gear's value goes down, getting harder to get back that initial BTC.

What i've learned since mining is that simply buying BTC and hold would gain alot more.

I think of ROI as a Return On Investment, because that's what it means. The formula is somewhat simple, the data are not. But your oversimplifcation, which I see all the time here, is ridiculous on it's face and even more so if you analyze it in depth.

Let's look at reality, shall we? If you are mining or buying BTC, you absolutely ARE BETTING ON IT'S EXCHANGE RATE. The only way this would not be true is if you are deluding yourself into thinking that bitcoin will replace the Dollar or the Euro as a reserve currency on the large scale in the near future. If you are holding that delusion, I'm sorry. It's a nice fantasy, but short of the utter collapse of either of those currencies, it isn't going to happen.

Thus this game is one of exchange. You hold in hopes that the exchange will rise. You generate coins on the same hope.

If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit. Not merely a ROI, but an actual, spendable, tradeable profit. The form it takes is truly irrelevant, unless you are beholden to some sort of cult mentality. Me, I trade BTC for dollars on the high side and dollars for BTC on the low side. I also will trade anything of value for anything else of value. This is the nature of trade. Supply, demand, and the differential betwixt them. Purchasing power trumps numerical value or labels.

Yeah, I'd like to see the world get away from government fiat monies. And eventually, it will. Or at least they will have a lot of open competition. But while that's a nice dream and even a worthy goal, I live in the now, and so do you. Plan for the future, of course, but base your plans on the real, not what you think "ought" to be.

[superduh]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

Please think of ROI in BTC.... not in fiat.

The point is spending BTC now and you're not gonna get back that amount of BTC. Price goes up, your stash value goes up, contrast to mining.... price goes up, difficulty will continue to rise due to noobs, your mining gear's value goes down, getting harder to get back that initial BTC.

What i've learned since mining is that simply buying BTC and hold would gain alot more.

I think of ROI as a Return On Investment, because that's what it means. The formula is somewhat simple, the data are not. But your oversimplifcation, which I see all the time here, is ridiculous on it's face and even more so if you analyze it in depth.



If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit. Not merely a ROI, but an actual, spendable, tradeable profit. The form it takes is truly irrelevant, unless you are beholden to some sort of cult mentality. Me, I trade BTC for dollars on the high side and dollars for BTC on the low side. I also will trade anything of value for anything else of value. This is the nature of trade. Supply, demand, and the differential betwixt them. Purchasing power trumps numerical value or labels.

o please, not "this again". advice and opinions that make NO economic sense passed off as sound advice. just cause you like "mining" whatever crap you like mining doesn't mean that it makes FINANCIAL sense doing so. just keep it at that. hell, some people will dig a hole in the ground for free just for fun. would you ever mine 1 lb of gold. give it away as an investment. get 1 oz of gold back in the future and be happy that the nominal/relative price of gold is up?! fuck no. you went from having 1lb of gold to 1 oz of gold. the same SIMPLE economic principle applies here irrespective of what a person enjoys doing for "fun and gratification".
losing money, losing "commodity" losing makes no sense. you buy equipment in bitcoins that generate bitcoins. what's the point of that machine will yield you LESS bitcoins than you bought it with. the value of 1 bitcoin doesn't matter at all.
maybe that's why the market prices that make no sense keep being floated around - either people don't care or they just don't get it

[Keefe]

There are two kinds of miners in the world: those who think 1 BTC in the future is worth 2 BTC in their wallet now, and those who don't.

[allinvain]

What in the heck are you guys thinking?!? Have you ever even tried the currency exchange game?

Please explain to me how spending say 110 in the past say for a BFL single to have it mine maybe 10 or say 15 btc over it's lifetime EVER EVER going to be a profit?! Why is mining better than buying and holding on to the coins? The only way mining will ever be worth it is if you paid with fiat. Then and only then you are truly betting on the exchange rate of btc -ie you are long BTC to use trader speak. So if the exchange rate keeps on going up and up even if the hardware only mines less than what your fiat bought you in btc terms at the time you purchased the hardware then you are still IN PROFIT IN FIAT terms, but then that begs the question why did you even do that. Why not just keep btc that you bought with fiat at whatever price and go long btc. You would've had MORE overall had you not spent it on some digital gold digger that will likely mine less than what you put into it!

Let's be honest here. The main reason we do this is because:

a) we enjoy playing with the technology
b) we have some fetish about mining
c) we are fools cause we think we will actually make a profit in btc terms
d) we are too gutless to trade btc
e) we don't have enough fiat cash to buy hardware so we reinvest or invest btc instead
f) we enjoy making the ASIC mining companies rich

The reality is that you will be outgunned by people with more money than you when it comes to mining.

Why don't any of you do a little test. Buy a miner with X $ and also buy some btc with the SAME $ amount. See in the end which has made you MORE money in $ terms. Just do it.

"If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit"

WTF? Are you really saying this? Tell me honestly, were you drunk when you typed this ?  If you spent $10 for 10 btc and during the time span of a couple years all you got was 1 btc you now have ~$1000. Had you kept that 10 BTC you bought with $10, you would now have $10,000. So in fact you _lost_ the opportunity to gain $9000.

[tom99]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

[xstr8guy]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

[Biomech]

What in the heck are you guys thinking?!? Have you ever even tried the currency exchange game?

Please explain to me how spending say 110 in the past say for a BFL single to have it mine maybe 10 or say 15 btc over it's lifetime EVER EVER going to be a profit?! Why is mining better than buying and holding on to the coins? The only way mining will ever be worth it is if you paid with fiat. Then and only then you are truly betting on the exchange rate of btc -ie you are long BTC to use trader speak. So if the exchange rate keeps on going up and up even if the hardware only mines less than what your fiat bought you in btc terms at the time you purchased the hardware then you are still IN PROFIT IN FIAT terms, but then that begs the question why did you even do that. Why not just keep btc that you bought with fiat at whatever price and go long btc. You would've had MORE overall had you not spent it on some digital gold digger that will likely mine less than what you put into it!

Let's be honest here. The main reason we do this is because:

a) we enjoy playing with the technology
b) we have some fetish about mining
c) we are fools cause we think we will actually make a profit in btc terms
d) we are too gutless to trade btc
e) we don't have enough fiat cash to buy hardware so we reinvest or invest btc instead
f) we enjoy making the ASIC mining companies rich

The reality is that you will be outgunned by people with more money than you when it comes to mining.

Why don't any of you do a little test. Buy a miner with X $ and also buy some btc with the SAME $ amount. See in the end which has made you MORE money in $ terms. Just do it.

"If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit"

WTF? Are you really saying this? Tell me honestly, were you drunk when you typed this ?  If you spent $10 for 10 btc and during the time span of a couple years all you got was 1 btc you now have ~$1000. Had you kept that 10 BTC you bought with $10, you would now have $10,000. So in fact you _lost_ the opportunity to gain $9000.

Oh, Jumpin Jeezus. I rarely drink. Yes, I was drunk.

What I meant to say was that if you spent the equivalent of 10btc back a couple of years ago on something that makes you ONE btc today, then you made a massive profit. I think. I seriously only drink about twice a year. See why?

Sorry about that.

[aneutronic]

What in the heck are you guys thinking?!? Have you ever even tried the currency exchange game?

Please explain to me how spending say 110 in the past say for a BFL single to have it mine maybe 10 or say 15 btc over it's lifetime EVER EVER going to be a profit?! Why is mining better than buying and holding on to the coins? The only way mining will ever be worth it is if you paid with fiat. Then and only then you are truly betting on the exchange rate of btc -ie you are long BTC to use trader speak. So if the exchange rate keeps on going up and up even if the hardware only mines less than what your fiat bought you in btc terms at the time you purchased the hardware then you are still IN PROFIT IN FIAT terms, but then that begs the question why did you even do that. Why not just keep btc that you bought with fiat at whatever price and go long btc. You would've had MORE overall had you not spent it on some digital gold digger that will likely mine less than what you put into it!

Let's be honest here. The main reason we do this is because:

a) we enjoy playing with the technology
b) we have some fetish about mining
c) we are fools cause we think we will actually make a profit in btc terms
d) we are too gutless to trade btc
e) we don't have enough fiat cash to buy hardware so we reinvest or invest btc instead
f) we enjoy making the ASIC mining companies rich

The reality is that you will be outgunned by people with more money than you when it comes to mining.

+10

nailed it!

[organofcorti]

<snip>
What I meant to say was that if you spent the equivalent of 10btc back a couple of years ago on something that makes you ONE btc today, then you made a massive profit. I think.
<snip>

If I rephrase that as: "If I gave you 10btc back a couple of years ago and you give me ONE btc today, then I made a massive profit", can you see the problem? Still doesn't work.

[Gator-hex]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

The European side has new stock http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/ if anyone is interested that side of the pond. I don't think they ship to US but maybe you could get a friend to buy and ship for you.

[allinvain]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

The European side has new stock http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/ if anyone is interested that side of the pond. I don't think they ship to US but maybe you could get a friend to buy and ship for you.

Actually they ship anywhere in the world. Even so, they are still overpriced at both shops. At say 25 GH these will not likely pay for themselves. By the way 250 euro is around $337 so they are cheaper than at Dave's shop, but not by much. I guess if you can avoid not paying any duty or taxes it may make more sense to buy them from Punin at his shop.

[organofcorti]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

The European side has new stock http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/ if anyone is interested that side of the pond. I don't think they ship to US but maybe you could get a friend to buy and ship for you.

Actually they ship anywhere in the world. Even so, they are still overpriced at both shops. At say 25 GH these will not likely pay for themselves. By the way 250 euro is around $337 so they are cheaper than at Dave's shop, but not by much. I guess if you can avoid not paying any duty or taxes it may make more sense to buy them from Punin at his shop.

My current limit for profitability is ~ US$5.10 per Ghps.

Any more than this and you're unlikely to make a complete ROI in the first 3 months - and if you have to bank on mining more than 3 months to make a complete ROI then you can't make any good (reliable) estimates anyway.

[dropt]

My current limit for profitability is ~ US$5.10 per Ghps.

Any more than this and you're unlikely to make a complete ROI in the first 3 months - and if you have to bank on mining more than 3 months to make a complete ROI then you can't make any good (reliable) estimates anyway.

+1

[Syke]

My current limit for profitability is ~ US$5.10 per Ghps.

Any more than this and you're unlikely to make a complete ROI in the first 3 months - and if you have to bank on mining more than 3 months to make a complete ROI then you can't make any good (reliable) estimates anyway.

That's a pretty reasonable number. Bitmain comes close. Bitfury is double that. Disappointingly overpriced.

[klondike_bar]

My current limit for profitability is ~ US$5.10 per Ghps.

Any more than this and you're unlikely to make a complete ROI in the first 3 months - and if you have to bank on mining more than 3 months to make a complete ROI then you can't make any good (reliable) estimates anyway.

That's a pretty reasonable number. Bitmain comes close. Bitfury is double that. Disappointingly overpriced.

I think bitmain is right on the nose with thier pricing 90% of the time. the current 1.45BTC batch and the 2.65BTC batch they had 2 weeks ago both fall a little norht of what i consider 'reasonable'. 0.0065BTC/GH seems like a fair number to me for an antminer (2w/GH) and maybe 0.0075BTC/GH for a bitfury due to the slightly better efficiency.

however, the difference in user experience is vast. the antminers dont destroy SD cards. My bitfury has been stable for almost 2 weeks, but I am terrified to change it over to a less-noisy PSU for fear that the SD card will need to be formatted and imaged all over again just to get it running, not to mention re-doing all the autotune

[Trongersoll]

My current limit for profitability is ~ US$5.10 per Ghps.

Any more than this and you're unlikely to make a complete ROI in the first 3 months - and if you have to bank on mining more than 3 months to make a complete ROI then you can't make any good (reliable) estimates anyway.

That's a pretty reasonable number. Bitmain comes close. Bitfury is double that. Disappointingly overpriced.

I think bitmain is right on the nose with thier pricing 90% of the time. the current 1.45BTC batch and the 2.65BTC batch they had 2 weeks ago both fall a little norht of what i consider 'reasonable'. 0.0065BTC/GH seems like a fair number to me for an antminer (2w/GH) and maybe 0.0075BTC/GH for a bitfury due to the slightly better efficiency.

however, the difference in user experience is vast. the antminers dont destroy SD cards. My bitfury has been stable for almost 2 weeks, but I am terrified to change it over to a less-noisy PSU for fear that the SD card will need to be formatted and imaged all over again just to get it running, not to mention re-doing all the autotune

Can't you copy the autotune file to a USB stick? "sudo shutdown -h now" has been sparing me reimaging.

[Biomech]

<snip>
What I meant to say was that if you spent the equivalent of 10btc back a couple of years ago on something that makes you ONE btc today, then you made a massive profit. I think.
<snip>

If I rephrase that as: "If I gave you 10btc back a couple of years ago and you give me ONE btc today, then I made a massive profit", can you see the problem? Still doesn't work.

I'm just gonna leave it alone. I'm not sure what I was trying to say, now. I was more intoxicated than I usually get. I tried to reconstruct it from what I typed, not memory. Suffice it to say it don't even make sense to me. I fucked up, I admit it, and I'll try to avoid drunken typing from now on.

[Trongersoll]

<snip>
What I meant to say was that if you spent the equivalent of 10btc back a couple of years ago on something that makes you ONE btc today, then you made a massive profit. I think.
<snip>

If I rephrase that as: "If I gave you 10btc back a couple of years ago and you give me ONE btc today, then I made a massive profit", can you see the problem? Still doesn't work.

I'm just gonna leave it alone. I'm not sure what I was trying to say, now. I was more intoxicated than I usually get. I tried to reconstruct it from what I typed, not memory. Suffice it to say it don't even make sense to me. I fucked up, I admit it, and I'll try to avoid drunken typing from now on.

I think what you left out was "at the current exchange rates at the time"

[klondike_bar]

My current limit for profitability is ~ US$5.10 per Ghps.

Any more than this and you're unlikely to make a complete ROI in the first 3 months - and if you have to bank on mining more than 3 months to make a complete ROI then you can't make any good (reliable) estimates anyway.

That's a pretty reasonable number. Bitmain comes close. Bitfury is double that. Disappointingly overpriced.

I think bitmain is right on the nose with thier pricing 90% of the time. the current 1.45BTC batch and the 2.65BTC batch they had 2 weeks ago both fall a little norht of what i consider 'reasonable'. 0.0065BTC/GH seems like a fair number to me for an antminer (2w/GH) and maybe 0.0075BTC/GH for a bitfury due to the slightly better efficiency.

however, the difference in user experience is vast. the antminers dont destroy SD cards. My bitfury has been stable for almost 2 weeks, but I am terrified to change it over to a less-noisy PSU for fear that the SD card will need to be formatted and imaged all over again just to get it running, not to mention re-doing all the autotune

Can't you copy the autotune file to a USB stick? "sudo shutdown -h now" has been sparing me reimaging.

on at least 3 occasions 'sudo shutdown -h now' has messed up the SD card image. in contrast when i first had the system i must have safely turned off and on the PSU to do tweaks and pencil mods a dozen times before the first issue with an SD card. At this point i just avoid touching it for fear of it losing my settings.

how could i copy the settings (or better yet, the full image) over the network or onto a usb stick to make backup SD cards?

[xstr8guy]

Stay away from the Kingston SD cards.  Total crap!  The Patriot cards are rock solid.