[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING***

[loshia]

Also, Antminers are not currently for sale from stock.  And wasn't the 2.65BTC price just an introductory offer from the new BitMain website and limited to only the first 30 units sold?

No, first 30 units were priced at 2.40.

At current price and BTC/USD ratio, a full rig will not break-even.

spiccioli

Why do people always insist on offering that same piece of "advice" over and over again?

If I had heeded that advice I wouldn't currently have 2THs of mining gear with another 4THs+ preordered mining gear.  All of this has been paid for (with the exception of the first 200GHs or so) from the BTC I mined.  And I still have approximately $20,000 worth of BTC left in my wallet.

And no, I wouldn't have even more if I had bought and held BTC instead.  I tried doing that and I failed miserably.  Like most people, I panicked at the first dip and lost a good chunk of my modest investment, lol.  "Buy and hold" isn't in my nature.  I'm a miner and proud!

Me too, but this is not changing current statement. My point of view is if i spent x BTC for minig gear i should be able to make x+y btc in near feature. In current situation it turns out that you will be making x-Y btc and Y will be about half of the X btc invested. Near feature means infinity! Are you getting the idea now?

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

[xstr8guy]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

[Biffa]

Its like the naysayers in the KnC threads, I think they are after some sort of virtual gratification, somehow they want everyone to thank them for their insight and sage advice. They have a saviour complex that needs to be fulfilled. I can't think of any other reason that isn't nefarious. I mean of course they could be trying to mitigate the sale of ASIC's somehow so that they can safeguard their own investment in the technology. But there isn't much point in that now, its too big a job for them to hold back the tide.

[xzempt]

After the last increase,  shouldnt the hboards be $250ish?   

[seriouscoin]

Also, Antminers are not currently for sale from stock.  And wasn't the 2.65BTC price just an introductory offer from the new BitMain website and limited to only the first 30 units sold?

No, first 30 units were priced at 2.40.

At current price and BTC/USD ratio, a full rig will not break-even.

spiccioli

Why do people always insist on offering that same piece of "advice" over and over again?

If I had heeded that advice I wouldn't currently have 2THs of mining gear with another 4THs+ preordered mining gear.  All of this has been paid for (with the exception of the first 200GHs or so) from the BTC I mined.  And I still have approximately $20,000 worth of BTC left in my wallet.

And no, I wouldn't have even more if I had bought and held BTC instead.  I tried doing that and I failed miserably.  Like most people, I panicked at the first dip and lost a good chunk of my modest investment, lol.  "Buy and hold" isn't in my nature.  I'm a miner and proud!

Me too, but this is not changing current statement. My point of view is if i spent x BTC for minig gear i should be able to make x+y btc in near feature. In current situation it turns out that you will be making x-Y btc and Y will be about half of the X btc invested. Near feature means infinity! Are you getting the idea now?

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!   

wow  a simple ROI is too hard for you?

[klondike_bar]

my new v1.2 cards are in and im heatsinking them now

are these overclocked already? It looks like both R01F and R02F is already sitting around 1.8 K-ohm

[ShadesOfMarble]

I think they are after some sort of virtual gratification, somehow they want everyone to thank them for their insight and sage advice. They have a saviour complex that needs to be fulfilled. I can't think of any other reason that isn't nefarious.

Here is your reason:

I spent $500 BTC so I can purchase a mining contract. Albeit, what I didn't realize that BTC difficulty will double in February and beyond. So it's kind of pointless to buy any mining rigs (unless if it's a terrahash rig -- different story -- most people can't afford it) or mining contracts, no? Any suggestions? Thanks.

(color by me.)

There are actually people that don't know difficulty will rise. And even if they do, there are people that don't know the difference between linear and exponential growth.

[xzempt]

and some are hobbyists, just wanting to be part of something big.....   why does everyone leave that out? 

[loshia]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

[loshia]

and some are hobbyists, just wanting to be part of something big.....   why does everyone leave that out? 

The big part is the money spent that is all

[dropt]

wow  a simple ROI is too hard for you?

A proper ROI calculation is anything but simple. 

If you had made acceptable assumptions in July/August looking forward you would have seen Hashfast, Cointerra, BFL, Terrahash, Avalon chips GB's, ASICMiner Gen 2, KnC, etc in the pipeline.  The outlook was horrid!  Fast forward to today and how many of those expected offerings have come to fruition?  In September people were running around waving the genesis block calculator results which predicted a difficulty of 4 Billion coming into January.

It's a concern yes, but a lot of people running around making these claims really have nothing to back them up. 

[xzempt]

i was told the 333mhs BE's would never ROI,    pretty  sure everyone i bought did.....  

[dropt]

There are actually people that don't know difficulty will rise. And even if they do, there are people that don't know the difference between linear and exponential growth.

And a lot of those that think they understand exponenetial growth don't understand that it isnt' sustainable.

[Ytterbium]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

[seriouscoin]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

Please think of ROI in BTC.... not in fiat.

The point is spending BTC now and you're not gonna get back that amount of BTC. Price goes up, your stash value goes up, contrast to mining.... price goes up, difficulty will continue to rise due to noobs, your mining gear's value goes down, getting harder to get back that initial BTC.

What i've learned since mining is that simply buying BTC and hold would gain alot more.

[ShadesOfMarble]

There are actually people that don't know difficulty will rise. And even if they do, there are people that don't know the difference between linear and exponential growth.

And a lot of those that think they understand exponenetial growth don't understand that it isnt' sustainable.

Cmon... I'm not talking about t->infinity but about the next months and maybe years. By the time we will see saturation (i.e. no difficulty adjustment in either direction beside statistical noise) ALL of the hardware sold now will be useless (as in "not even mine its own electricity cost").

Mining is going to centralize in the future. Margins are getting thinner and thinner and then only companies which mine for themself and with simple designs will survive. The Bitfury "one string" design is the way to go.


A lot of people are hunting the "Avalon batch #1" myth.

Also what seriouscoin said in the post above. You want to win the mining game? Then don't play it.

[cypherdoc]

0.47BTC H-Card, time to buy

This...the price drop is appreciated.  Cheaper (by about a third) than AntMiner, and more power-efficient. 

you still running bfgminer?

Yes.  I've pulled updates a few times since first setting it up; it says it's now at 3.8.1.  It also has a Klondike K16 slaved off it in addition to a couple of Jalapeños.

is it stable?

[Syke]

Four H-boards will do 140 GH/s with mild overclocking (the two I already have are doing 70).  I paid about BTC1.87 yesterday for them.  Five (for 175 GH/s) would've been about BTC2.34. "1/3 cheaper" may have been a little bit of an overstatement, but Bitfury hardware is now cheaper.

No, it's not. You're trying to compare overclocked incomplete Bitfury systems with stock clocked complete Antminer systems. That is not a valid comparison.

[dropt]

And a lot of those that think they understand exponenetial growth don't understand that it isnt' sustainable.

Cmon... I'm not talking about t->infinity but about the next months and maybe years. By the time we will see saturation (i.e. no difficulty adjustment in either direction beside statistical noise) ALL of the hardware sold now will be useless (as in "not even mine its own electricity cost").

Mining is going to centralize in the future. Margins are getting thinner and thinner and then only companies which mine for themself and with simple designs will survive. The Bitfury "one string" design is the way to go.


A lot of people are hunting the "Avalon batch #1" myth.

Also what seriouscoin said in the post above. You want to win the mining game? Then don't play it.

Why do you assume the requirement of t->inf for an exponential model to fail?  

Further, the Avalon batch #1 "myth" is not a myth.  It actually happened.  I do however agree that the gains seen by Avalon B1 customers will never be realized again.  Like others I was always told not to buy mining equipment, just buy coins.  Turns out that I've mined over double the amount of coins I could have purchased at any point with the amount of funding I've poured into my farms.  

Seriouscoin is right in that the absolute conservative method is to just buy coins, but conservative plays generally equate to very little -- if any -- gains.

[zurg]

my new v1.2 cards are in and im heatsinking them now

are these overclocked already? It looks like both R01F and R02F is already sitting around 1.8 K-ohm

Please let me know how the new cards are working., I am considering buying some tonight.

Thank you.