☃☃☃ The #1 Factor Driving Bitcoin Prices ☃☃☃

[nullius]

I suppose you realized that other post was essentially an admission.  I was preserving it when you wrote this, ShortCoins:

I’m going to call a presumptive sockpuppet here.  The one and only post on the account of “cryptoandmore”, registered less than a half-hour before—and pulling in a theme from one of ShortCoins’ earlier FUD spam threads:

Greed and FOMO (Fear to Missing out)...who wants to miss out the biggest free lunch in his life?

Bitcoin is the biggest capitalist craze in history, repeating all the capitalist history again in a few years compared to what took ages before. We can see capitalist's worst face (greed, cheating, manipulating, steeling, etc.) as EVERYBODY is only looking for his own best benefit! Back to Wild West!

It started with the noble idea to free us all from the "bankster mafia", but it created a capitalist monster much more extreme and worse than central banks, now controlled by a handful of powerful players (miner mafia) who set the rules at will for their best profit and interest. They can easily manipulate the markets, and the small guy will ultimately pay the price.

I don't like government regulations and central banks, but it seems they are more needed to protect the small guys than most of us thought. Hopefully some smart guy will come forward soon and create a Bitcoin 2.0 with smart contracts and other rules and regulations to level the playfield. 

Similar style, too.  (It’s rather formulaic, actually.)  ShortCoins, is that you?

It's not me...but will leave anyway as my latest postings just got deleted...seems all of you want to continue living in their "pink world" - go ahead and have fun :-)

[cryp24x]

I will like to say that the driving force here is the value attach to it, bitcoin has gone poplar round the globe leading to some companies getting involve with bitcoin by adopting it for investment which has made the demand go higher.

From that perspective (value) people think that this value will go up and they will earn money from it, (smart thinking but often times driven by greed) so they will invest.  They will buy the hype and so that push the price of Bitcoin upward.  Honestly if we asked this investors about bitcoin and its function, I doubt they will know  .  These people only wants profit and greed kicks in that the more Bitcoin they will have the more profit they can get.  So yeah I agree.. greed it is.

[cizatext]

Weather you call it greed or not or people wanting to get rich quick without working, one thing for sure in the bitcoin world is it ability to sustain it market cap and steady rise in price and this is due to more investors coming into the market and the volatility of bitcoin always cut peoples interest. So the most important thing that is promoting bitcoin is it value in the exchange market.

[Luckylegs]

Even if greed is driving the price up, it's the viable concept that has gripped people, I think. News coverage is not now so dismissive and there is genuine concern amongst Governments and the banks. You're right, it's not "fair" when people cannot afford things (housing, healthcare etc) but here is a real chance for people with access to a computer to learn about Crypto and take part in other currencies (if they feel Bitcoin is too pricey). People can even take part in free airdrops if they do not have money to invest.

[Digitalbitcoin]

Not just greed and fear but also public awareness too, responsible to increase price of Bitcoins exponentially. People all over from globe getting aware and started to believe that Bitcoin is a great tool/platform to get good ROI at initial stages. But one price increase people sell out their holded coins to open market. In same way Bitcoin always keep rising with exchange from person to person and fix its own floor rate. Now its quite hard to bring bitcoins down as it have already capped huge funds.

[ShortCoins]

I’m going to call a presumptive sockpuppet here.  The one and only post on the account of “cryptoandmore”,

ROFL. Nooblius, You are DEAD WRONG. Again! Stop making stuff up about me just because I don't have the same outlook on bitcoin as you!

This is the only account I have ever made on bitcointalk. I just discovered the forum this week. I have a relatively grim outlook on bitcoin, and do not deny that but I have posted plenty of positive things about it as well. I don't short bitcoin, and I think shorting it is more risky than HODL simply because of the nature of options and needing to predict timing in addition to price direction.

It would be a bad thing if the entire forum was all long on bitcoin. Its normal and healthy for people to disagree or have varying viewpoints.

So is there anything else you would like to know about me before you stop stalking me around the forums and spamming all my boards?

[nullius]

I’m going to call a presumptive sockpuppet here.  The one and only post on the account of “cryptoandmore”,

ROFL. Nooblius, You are DEAD WRONG. Again! Stop making stuff up about me just because I don't have the same outlook on bitcoin as you!

This is the only account I have ever made on bitcointalk. I just discovered the forum this week. I have a relatively grim outlook on bitcoin, and do not deny that but I have posted plenty of positive things about it as well. I don't short bitcoin, and I think shorting it is more risky than HODL simply because of the nature of options and needing to predict timing in addition to price direction.

It would be a bad thing if the entire forum was all long on bitcoin. Its normal and healthy for people to disagree or have varying viewpoints.

So is there anything else you would like to know about me before you stop stalking me around the forums and spamming all my boards?

So again, you claim that “ShortCoins” has not shorted any coins.  Sure.  [Edit to add:  “ShortCoins”, who created an account and first topic “✨✨✨ Time To SHORT For Massive Profits!! ✨✨✨” on the eve of a huge market event, surely has not shorted coins.]

You are spamming the forum.  These are not “your boards”.  Get lost.

[ShortCoins]

Nullius,

You are making yourself look more and more like a clown. Obviously the boards are public. But you come on each and every single board I make to post your bullshit. All of which you just make up on the fly including dumb allegations of FUD and sockpuppetting. I just laugh because of how off you are every time you try to make an assumption about me.

YES, my screen name is a play on words for Shorting Crypto. You are so smart figuring out that Short Coins stands for shorting coins. How the heck did you figure that one out? Let me take back what I said about your dumb comments on FUD and Sockpuppetting because you are a borderline genius for figuring that out.

Just cause my screen name is ShortCoins does not mean I have a short position on bitcoin, you dolt.

Do you stalk people in real life or just on forums? Weirdo.

[nullius]

Nullius,

You are making yourself look more and more like a clown. Obviously the boards are public. But you come on each and every single board I make to post your bullshit. All of which you just make up on the fly including dumb allegations of FUD and sockpuppetting. I just laugh because of how off you are every time you try to make an assumption about me.

YES, my screen name is a play on words for Shorting Crypto. You are so smart figuring out that Short Coins stands for shorting coins. How the heck did you figure that one out? Let me take back what I said about your dumb comments on FUD and Sockpuppetting because you are a borderline genius for figuring that out.

Just cause my screen name is ShortCoins does not mean I have a short position on bitcoin, you dolt.

Do you stalk people in real life or just on forums? Weirdo.

Please direct further discussion to this topic in Meta, so I can stop bumping your spam thread.

[ShortCoins]

so I can stop bumping your spam thread

The last time I called it "my thread" you were quick to correct me that it is a public thread. You're basically just looking for an argument. Anyhow, I'm not going to drop to your level of maturity. So bye, have a nice day

[amishmanish]

The Number #1 Factor Driving Bitcoin Prices Is:

Greed


People want to get rich quickly and not work. They think that bitcoin profits will last forever. People are investing in bitcoin, not because they believe in the future of the currency, but because they want to pad their pocketbook. Big money in Asia markets are manipulating the price. And everyone is coming along for the ride in the pursuit of profits. Bitcoin technology has increased very minimally but the cost to buy bitcoin has gone up 5,000,000 times its initial cost. Everyone is hoping to sell their bitcoin to the next person in line for more and more money. Greed will drive the price up as high as possible, and greed will cause the crash as well. Crypto is a really neat concept, but turning it into an investment tool is making us more motivated by profits than actual beliefs. Not to mention Crypto is destroying billions of dollars worth of resources each day. Its really sad to watch humanity destroy the world in pursuit of profits


Warning for EVERYONE:  The troll named “nullius” is spamming the forum with FUD warnings. He is very annoying and stalks all my threads  

Haah! I am glad that nullius called out your bluff up there. From his responses, he sounds much more thorough than your own one-line accusations of him trolling your posts. And frankly, its never a good thing to call out people who have not even posted yet on your topic. You could have responded later.

As far as your point regarding "GREED driving BTC prices"is concerned. Of course, its been a mad rush especially with the future markets.The increase in price is fueling large scale adoption in Asian countries too on a wide scale. India is of course one of these sleeping giants just waking up.

People expect the price to go up indefinitely (which BTC has been doing now for years and will continue for quite some time). All this FUD you are spreading regarding BTC somehow failing because the early adopters will take all your money is quite maleficent. And its a long shot that something like this would happens because:

1. Not every one of them will decide to sell their BTC at the same time. Those who do will only find theirs being lapped up in a short time. If anything, it only helps the disctribution.

2. Even for the early adopters, there's a huge peer group against whom they are goin to peg their wealth. I don't think anyone of them wants to be left behind when BTC creates its new billionaires.

3. The thought of people having 1000+ BTC, suddenly becoming billionares shouldn't be so scary. In all likelihood, these are the people who held onto it through the years and are capable people mostly.

4. Its not just the Grandma money that has brought this thing to half a trillion dollar. Their are institutional investors too. In all likelihood, this is wealth redistribution if the average retail investor simply decides to get his principal amount back and leave the rest. This way, nobody gets hurt. The prospect isn't all that bad.

[Mandoy]

The Number #1 Factor Driving Bitcoin Prices Is:

Greed


People want to get rich quickly and not work. They think that bitcoin profits will last forever. People are investing in bitcoin, not because they believe in the future of the currency, but because they want to pad their pocketbook. Big money in Asia markets are manipulating the price. And everyone is coming along for the ride in the pursuit of profits. Bitcoin technology has increased very minimally but the cost to buy bitcoin has gone up 5,000,000 times its initial cost. Everyone is hoping to sell their bitcoin to the next person in line for more and more money. Greed will drive the price up as high as possible, and greed will cause the crash as well. Crypto is a really neat concept, but turning it into an investment tool is making us more motivated by profits than actual beliefs. Not to mention Crypto is destroying billions of dollars worth of resources each day. Its really sad to watch humanity destroy the world in pursuit of profits


Warning for EVERYONE:  The troll named “nullius” is spamming the forum with FUD warnings. He is very annoying and stalks all my threads  

I disagree with the fact that is is purely greed that makes people invest in bitcoins. The primarily reason for people why they join bitcoin is to be financially stable and to achieve their dreams. Though there are greedy people but greed is not the primary reason why people are into bitcoin. Some people invest in bitcoins so they can send their children to school when the value increases. Some to build their own house, buy a car, pay the loans and etc. Greed comes in last when those people are no longer satisfied and wanted to be at the top.

[buwaytress]

The Number #1 Factor Driving Bitcoin Prices Is:

Greed

People want to get rich quickly and not work. They think that bitcoin profits will last forever. People are investing in bitcoin, not because they believe in the future of the currency, but because they want to pad their pocketbook. Big money in Asia markets are manipulating the price. And everyone is coming along for the ride in the pursuit of profits. Bitcoin technology has increased very minimally but the cost to buy bitcoin has gone up 5,000,000 times its initial cost. Everyone is hoping to sell their bitcoin to the next person in line for more and more money. Greed will drive the price up as high as possible, and greed will cause the crash as well. Crypto is a really neat concept, but turning it into an investment tool is making us more motivated by profits than actual beliefs. Not to mention Crypto is destroying billions of dollars worth of resources each day. Its really sad to watch humanity destroy the world in pursuit of profits

Warning for EVERYONE:  The troll named “nullius” is spamming the forum with FUD warnings. He is very annoying and stalks all my threads  

Every now and then we get this sort of entertaining posts, pointing the FUD finger to others perhaps not realising the nature of their posts.

Nevertheless. Greed is not the #1 factor driving Bitcoin Prices. If that were true, every ICO launched in the last 12 months should have seen a general trend of prices appreciating. Instead, almost the opposite has happened and why? Because the current majority of ICO investors are those looking for quick profits, speculators who dump as soon as their ICO token is available. Now that is what happens when greed is the #1 factor.

And Bitcoin tech has not increased minimally. Where have you been all these years? Even in the last half year, we've seen so many great updates, upgrades and development (just that services and wallets are slow to catch up). We've got SegWit, Lightning coming, successful atomic swaps...

Also, Bitcoin has grown nearly infinite times its initial cost (nearly zero)... not 5 million as you purport, just to be technical.

[ShortCoins]

And frankly, its never a good thing to call out people who have not even posted yet on your topic. You could have responded later.

I did not call him out until he came on the thread and posted the same spam that I had asked him to stop posting three times. I then edited the first post AFTER he came in AGAIN and posted more spam. He is simply copy and pasting the same false accusations of FUD etc. Yes, Nullius is well spoken and has a nice control of the English language. I agree that he articulates better than I do. That doesn't make my posts less valid

we've seen so many great updates, upgrades and development (just that services and wallets are slow to catch up). We've got SegWit, Lightning coming

Hmmm. My point is that there haven't been enough changes to the technology to justify the growth in bitcoin's price. People are quick to defend bitcoin by saying it is still in its infant stage when really it is 8 years old with few upgrades. And SegWit isn't even integrated into the largest exchange yet (Coinbase)

Saying there has been so many upgrades and then listing Lightning Network as one of your primary examples just highlights my point that the technology has seen few changes. The Lightning Network is still in beta and cannot be counted as an update or upgrade just yet

1. Not every one of them will decide to sell their BTC at the same time.

This is a huge and dangerous assumption to make. In reality we cannot see into the future and know. Some unforeseeable event could cause mass selloff etc

[Swenna]

I think it is too much to label the attitude of wanting to earn money using bitcoin as greed. It is true that the amount/price of bitcoin is quite tempting and pleasing to the eyes that everyone wants to have a piece of it. However, more than anything, most people only wanted to earn and have a comfortable and easy life in hope that bitcoin will be the one to make those possible. Calling bitcoin holders and investors 'greedy' just because of the reason that they make  bitcoin price surge up is uncalled for. There are many reasons behind the hike in bitcoin price and there's also a lot of reason behind people's attitude aside from what you think as 'greed'

[ShortCoins]

The reason we need money is to exchange goods and services for each other using a medium. Money is the way we divide the world's resources.

What is money?
Money is a FUTURE claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods one is entitled to collect on


Now lets think about how this differs from crypto currency

The reason we need crypto is to exchange goods and services for each other using a digital medium and to provide it in a decentralized but secure way.


What is crypto?
Crytpo is a PAST claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods or services that one has already used



Here is what I mean by the difference between a future and a past claim on goods or services. Money is a future claim on the world's resources (including labor and services). You can use that money at a future point to collect in on what you are 'owed'. This differs dramatically from crypto. Crypto is actually a past claim on services or goods, because it cannot be earned without destroying resources. The value of crypto comes from the fact that electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create. We are essentially destroying resources in order to make a medium that will allow us to divide the rest of the resources up. Instead we should be earning currency based on the things we save and the resources we protect. We should be incentivized to save the world, not destroy it.

I think the process of adopting crypto is too much of a sacrifice when it comes to resources. The very things we are trying to divide up we are destroying. We arguably need money to divide the resources, but we don't need to destroy resources just to make the money

[nullius]

What is money?
Money is a FUTURE claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods one is entitled to collect on

[...]

What is crypto?
Crytpo is a PAST claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods or services that one has already used



Here is what I mean by the difference between a future and a past claim on goods or services. Money is a future claim on the world's resources (including labor and services). You can use that money at a future point to collect in on what you are 'owed'. This differs dramatically from crypto. Crypto is actually a past claim on services or goods, because it cannot be earned without destroying resources. The value of crypto comes from the fact that electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create.

Say what?  I quoted enough to provide sufficient context; but what I am really interested in is this:  “Money is a future claim on the world’s resources (including labor and services). You can use that money at a future point to collect in on what you are ‘owed’.”

From where do you believe “money” derives that claim?  In itself, and/or in contradistinction to “crypto”.

(I leave aside for now the nasty myth that “crypto” derives its value from “electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create.”  That’s patently untrue; but to understand why, first you must have a clear definition of “money”.)

[lamadu3]

All currencies which are not fully founded by real products looking like some kind of phantom of financial pyramid. The same situation with the dollar from the middle of XX century and with Bitcoin today. IMHO

[aso118]

The Number #1 Factor Driving Bitcoin Prices Is:

Greed


People want to get rich quickly and not work. They think that bitcoin profits will last forever. People are investing in bitcoin, not because they believe in the future of the currency, but because they want to pad their pocketbook. Big money in Asia markets are manipulating the price. And everyone is coming along for the ride in the pursuit of profits. Bitcoin technology has increased very minimally but the cost to buy bitcoin has gone up 5,000,000 times its initial cost. Everyone is hoping to sell their bitcoin to the next person in line for more and more money. Greed will drive the price up as high as possible, and greed will cause the crash as well. Crypto is a really neat concept, but turning it into an investment tool is making us more motivated by profits than actual beliefs. Not to mention Crypto is destroying billions of dollars worth of resources each day. Its really sad to watch humanity destroy the world in pursuit of profits


Warning for EVERYONE:  The troll named “nullius” is spamming the forum with FUD warnings. He is very annoying and stalks all my threads  

Greed is not such a bad thing. It is what drives the capitalistic economy. The invisible hand of the market is no different from the collective greed of the individuals who make up the market. Bitcoin and all other asset classes are driven by it.

[amishmanish]

1. Not every one of them will decide to sell their BTC at the same time.

This is a huge and dangerous assumption to make. In reality we cannot see into the future and know. Some unforeseeable event could cause mass selloff etc

I am talking about your fear of the initial adopters selling billions of USD worth of BTC and crashing the market. I say they won't all do it because some people really are in it for the belief they have in it.
The unforseeable future can crash anything, not just bitcoin. We still have to make our assumptions based on the information we have. Those are:
1. Bitcoin has the largest group of miners working to maximize their profits and their hardware investments are a big deal for them. Not something they'll let go in a junkyard sale.
2. The early adopters see this as a long term thing unlike the latest incomers jumping onto the hype train. It has been made clear from the beginning that one should only invest what they're willing to lose. If they fall for scams or take too much risk, well, that human nature and people find multiple ways to bankrupt themselves all the time.

Both of these groups aren't selling off their investments anytime soon in a combined, concerted effort. Even if they do, I don't think they'll be able to move money quickly enough.