Maximum role of Government?

[ascent]

Ever hear of survival of the fittest?

That long line would get pretty short, mighty fast.

As long as there are humans, and there is a vacuum of power, something will move to fill it.

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[myrkul]

Ever hear of survival of the fittest?

That long line would get pretty short, mighty fast.

As long as there are humans, and there is a vacuum of power, something will move to fill it.

And as long as there are people willing to try and take things from people by force, there will be job security for ammunition companies.

[ascent]

Only the part of me that you know.  You can't know all.  Can you regulate the tunnel people in NYC's abandoned train tunnels?  Can you regulate the Appalation hillbillly making meth in the woods?  I think that you overestimate your capacities as a government.

If a couple slip through the cracks or fly under the radar, so what? As an example, Bitcoins are pretty much flying under the radar right now, but barely. And so the government isn't actually doing anything. But let Bitcoins become the backbone of the economy, and they won't be flying under the radar anymore. Likewise, if everyone becomes an Appalachian hillbilly, then they aren't flying under the radar anymore, but instead are mainstream society, in which case, the means to tax will evolve to handle it.

Again, you and I both know I'm not saying such a police state is desirable. I'm just explaining how things can work. And all those strange methods of taxation I proposed? If tyranny fails, then a new government could form that is very polite, yet still persuasive. It will become the new normal.

[ascent]

And as long as there are people willing to try and take things from people by force, there will be job security for ammunition companies.

Seriously, so what? All of you guys are pounding the table how the government is taking money from you by force through taxation right now. All a bunch of talk.

[myrkul]

If tyranny fails, then a new government could form that is very polite, yet still persuasive. It will become the new normal.

As long as it isn't backed up with force, you're welcome to knock on my door and offer me services.

[myrkul]

And as long as there are people willing to try and take things from people by force, there will be job security for ammunition companies.

Seriously, so what? All of you guys are pounding the table how the government is taking money from you by force through taxation right now. All a bunch of talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKlWGZHEO7Q

[cpunks]

I picked "none", but what I really mean, is that "privately" should include the possibility of providing services collectively...

...just as long as one is not establishing a monopoly, especially a territorial monopoly on passing regulations for others to follow, especially one backed by a threat of violence.

Voluntary collectivism, neat. Voluntary monopolies? Sounds unlikely, but if it floats someone's boat... involuntary anything, down with it.

[david4dev]

None of the above.

Instead, public control of public services through a mixture of localised government owned democracies and privately owned cooperatives.

[myrkul]

I picked "none", but what I really mean, is that "privately" should include the possibility of providing services collectively...

...just as long as one is not establishing a monopoly, especially a territorial monopoly on passing regulations for others to follow, especially one backed by a threat of violence.

Voluntary collectivism, neat. Voluntary monopolies? Sounds unlikely, but if it floats someone's boat... involuntary anything, down with it.

"Private" does include collectively, as long as it's voluntary.

None of the above.

Instead, public control of public services through a mixture of localised government owned democracies and privately owned cooperatives.

Sounds a lot like "Moderate", but could you elaborate more? Maybe I'll add an option to the poll.

[AyeYo]

"Government bad! Free market good! rabble rabble rabble"


How did I know that's where this thread would end up?

[myrkul]

"Government bad! Free market good! rabble rabble rabble"


How did I know that's where this thread would end up?

You start one, then.

[Grant]

I voted the last option, however i have a multiple-choice position.

In my view both Moderate, Minimal and None could coexist simultanously. I think they (the government options) should be freely available just like utitlities companies, insurance companies and telecom providers are.

This essentially means there is no government over those private-enterprise governments. And you decide how much protection you need, and what quality you desire, just like you do when you choose your ISP.

[NghtRppr]

private-enterprise governments

Those aren't state governments which is what we're talking about. I'm not against "government" in the chess club or any other private organizations.

[myrkul]

I voted the last option, however i have a multiple-choice position.

In my view both Moderate, Minimal and None could coexist simultanously. I think they (the government options) should be freely available just like utitlities companies, insurance companies and telecom providers are.

What you're talking about is Anarchy, because a government is defined by it's method of revenue collection: through taxation (ie, mugging). If you can choose to not pay a government for its services, it's not a government, it's a private service agency.

[AyeYo]

I voted the last option, however i have a multiple-choice position.

In my view both Moderate, Minimal and None could coexist simultanously. I think they (the government options) should be freely available just like utitlities companies, insurance companies and telecom providers are.

What you're talking about is Anarchy, because a government is defined by it's method of revenue collection: through taxation (ie, mugging). If you can choose to not pay a government for its services, it's not a government, it's a private service agency.

Obviously you've never heard of government options existing along side private options.  Have you ever heard of the USPS?  You can choose to use them OR you can choose to use UPS, FedEx, etc.

[myrkul]

I voted the last option, however i have a multiple-choice position.

In my view both Moderate, Minimal and None could coexist simultanously. I think they (the government options) should be freely available just like utitlities companies, insurance companies and telecom providers are.

What you're talking about is Anarchy, because a government is defined by it's method of revenue collection: through taxation (ie, mugging). If you can choose to not pay a government for its services, it's not a government, it's a private service agency.

Obviously you've never heard of government options existing along side private options.  Have you ever heard of the USPS?  You can choose to use them OR you can choose to use UPS, FedEx, etc.

Uh huh. Try sending first class mail via FedEx.

[Grant]

What you're talking about is Anarchy, because a government is defined by it's method of revenue collection: through taxation (ie, mugging). If you can choose to not pay a government for its services, it's not a government, it's a private service agency.

I prefer the term private-governments. (i feel its more marketable brand for anarchy)

[AyeYo]

I voted the last option, however i have a multiple-choice position.

In my view both Moderate, Minimal and None could coexist simultanously. I think they (the government options) should be freely available just like utitlities companies, insurance companies and telecom providers are.

What you're talking about is Anarchy, because a government is defined by it's method of revenue collection: through taxation (ie, mugging). If you can choose to not pay a government for its services, it's not a government, it's a private service agency.

Obviously you've never heard of government options existing along side private options.  Have you ever heard of the USPS?  You can choose to use them OR you can choose to use UPS, FedEx, etc.

Uh huh. Try sending first class mail via FedEx.

That's like saying, try to buy a Camry from Ford.  First Class mail is a USPS trademark name.  When you tell me what you're actually trying to say, I'll give you a link so that you can send it via FedEx.

[myrkul]

What you're talking about is Anarchy, because a government is defined by it's method of revenue collection: through taxation (ie, mugging). If you can choose to not pay a government for its services, it's not a government, it's a private service agency.

I prefer the term private-governments. (i feel its more marketable brand for anarchy)

An even better term is Phyle.

[Hawker]

I went with moderate.

For any society to exist, it needs some kind of defence, border control, courts and police.  Otherwise, you will have unlimited immigration and criminality.