YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL

[vcsmith]

I recently received a full refund from BFL for an order I placed several months ago.

I know, I know, BFL claims that "all sales are final".  Well, there's "final", and then there's "final"...

It took a month, but here's what worked for me:

• I sent an email to office@butterflylabs.com in which I politely requested a refund.
• About a week later, I received a reply from BFL denying my request.
• I filed a dispute with PayPal. In this dispute I noted that BFL failed to deliver, denied my refund request, and violated PayPal's Terms of Service for pre-order sales.
• PayPal closed my dispute the same day, stating that I was outside the 45-day window.
• I called PayPal's customer service and complained about my dispute being closed, and explained to PayPal exactly how BFL is violating the ToS.
• I sent an email to fraud@paypal.com in which I listed my transaction and dispute number, and explained how BFL is violating the ToS.
• A few days later, a PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor called me on the phone. He had already spoken to BFL and assured me that BFL would be contacting me. I told him that I just wanted a refund, and explained to him how BFL is violating the ToS.
• I waited a week to give BFL plenty of time to contact me.  They didn't.
• I emailed the PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor and told him that BFL had not contacted me. He seemed shocked. I wasn't. He told me that PayPal could take action against BFL if necessary.
• The PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor escalated my dispute to the next level (whatever that is).  He told me that someone else would call.
• The next day I received a call from a guy named Bruce at BFL. He told me that since I had complained to PayPal, BFL was placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. From his tone, I got the impression that Bruce thought this would bother me. I told him that I didn't need a review, I just wanted my money back. He wouldn't give me a firm answer and just kept repeating that they were placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. I even asked if this review would take a day, week, month, or year. No answer, just the same "under review" statement.
• Within 5 minutes of BFL's call, an Account Representative from PayPal called. I told her about the strange conversation with Bruce. She said that she would contact BFL again.
  
• My payment to BFL was refunded to my PayPal account the next business day.

IMHO, this is the bottom line:

BFL needs PayPal. If you want your money back, complain to PayPal and don't give up.

[Xian01]

[MykelSilver]

Thanks for sharing. I think it will be easier if more and more people will be asking for a refund. PayPal has already a database of BFL refunds...?

[01BTC10]

Alternatively you can berate Josh and get a forced refund.

[Viceroy]

Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0

Is Buttefly Labs breaking the law?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=247310.0

BFL refund through Paypal claim
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=249396.0

[greenbtc]

I recently received a full refund from BFL for an order I placed several months ago.

I know, I know, BFL claims that "all sales are final".  Well, there's "final", and then there's "final"...

It took a month, but here's what worked for me:

• I sent an email to office@butterflylabs.com in which I politely requested a refund.
• About a week later, I received a reply from BFL denying my request.
• I filed a dispute with PayPal. In this dispute I noted that BFL failed to deliver, denied my refund request, and violated PayPal's Terms of Service for pre-order sales.
• PayPal closed my dispute the same day, stating that I was outside the 45-day window.
• I called PayPal's customer service and complained about my dispute being closed, and explained to PayPal exactly how BFL is violating the ToS.
• I sent an email to fraud@paypal.com in which I listed my transaction and dispute number, and explained how BFL is violating the ToS.
• A few days later, a PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor called me on the phone. He had already spoken to BFL and assured me that BFL would be contacting me. I told him that I just wanted a refund, and explained to him how BFL is violating the ToS.
• I waited a week to give BFL plenty of time to contact me.  They didn't.
• I emailed the PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor and told him that BFL had not contacted me. He seemed shocked. I wasn't. He told me that PayPal could take action against BFL if necessary.
• The PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor escalated my dispute to the next level (whatever that is).  He told me that someone else would call.
• The next day I received a call from a guy named Bruce at BFL. He told me that since I had complained to PayPal, BFL was placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. From his tone, I got the impression that Bruce thought this would bother me. I told him that I didn't need a review, I just wanted my money back. He wouldn't give me a firm answer and just kept repeating that they were placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. I even asked if this review would take a day, week, month, or year. No answer, just the same "under review" statement.
• Within 5 minutes of BFL's call, an Account Representative from PayPal called. I told her about the strange conversation with Bruce. She said that she would contact BFL again.
  
• My payment to BFL was refunded to my PayPal account the next business day.

IMHO, this is the bottom line:

BFL needs PayPal. If you want your money back, complain to PayPal and don't give up.

This is almost exactly how my refund went. Took me a month and quite the run around of contacting Paypal multiple times. Glad you got your money out of that sinkhole!

[Starlightbreaker]

keep on going guys, together we can kill this company! 

[greenbtc]

keep on going guys, together we can kill this company! 

Can't wait until the nail is in the coffin!

[polrpaul]

Alternatively you can berate Josh and get a forced refund.

Otherwise known as getting Xian'ed

[Foofighter]

very nice, thanks for sharing this info!

[ibminer]

http://youtu.be/eEqUyNaSdvg

[Xian01]

Alternatively you can berate Josh and get a forced refund.

Otherwise known as getting Xian'ed

*bows*

"To Pull A Xian: Call people on their shit in an incendiary fashion."

Honestly, it's not one of my better qualities, and I'm not proud of it. Working on getting better. Takes a lot to get me that wound up, however, and is pretty rare all things considered.

[Erlenmyer]

Alternatively you can berate Josh and get a forced refund.

Otherwise known as getting Xian'ed

*bows*

"To Pull A Xian: Call people on their shit in an incendiary fashion."

Honestly, it's not one of my better qualities, and I'm not proud of it. Working on getting better. Takes a lot to get me that wound up, however, and is pretty rare all things considered.

You are officially now a verb. and not a bad one at that

[tom99]

  Did you tell Paypal that alot of Paypal buyers want refund from BFL?


ps: shipping thing get nowhere and its getting worse day by day.

[vcsmith]

 Did you tell Paypal that alot of Paypal buyers want refund from BFL?

The PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor and I spoke for a good while. I can't recall everything that was said, but I hung up with the impression that he knew quite a bit about BFL already. I hammered home the points that BFL had violated the ToS, and that a "sale" isn't a sale unless a product is delivered.

PayPal loses their fees when a payment is reversed, so they are not motivated to jump in just because someone asks them to. They do however, appear to succumb to the "squeaky wheel" strategy.  If you want your money back, be a stubborn pain in the ass.  That's what worked for me.

I can only speculate as to what might happen if lots of BFL "customers" follow the route that I took. 

[Bitcoinorama]

I don't see why this is any surprise to anyone, of course they have to refund, I'm just surprised how many people bitch and keep themselves captive of their own free will.

If you've paid by credit card it's as restrictive as being in an open prison. You call your issuing bank (presuming you checked with them prior to purchase anyway), Paypal have no reason to refund themselves, but they want your repeat business. In any case they turn the screws on BFL and you will get your refund, but it took you aggro, when if you pad by a credit card you just call the issuing bank. It's what you pay their usurious fees for...

[Trongersoll]

I don't see why this is any surprise to anyone, of course they have to refund, I'm just surprised how many people bitch and keep themselves captive of their own free will.

If you've paid by credit card it's as restrictive as being in an open prison. You call your issuing bank (presuming you checked with them prior to purchase anyway), Paypal have no reason to refund themselves, but they want your repeat business. In any case they turn the screws on BFL and you will get your refund, but it took you aggro, when if you pad by a credit card you just call the issuing bank. It's what you pay their usurious fees for...

so you're saying that if we paid Paypal with a credit card we should have no problem? We'll see. i just sent BFL a refund request since they didn't meet the "end of July" delivery they advertised in May, before they had their "no refund" policy.

[greenbtc]

I don't see why this is any surprise to anyone, of course they have to refund, I'm just surprised how many people bitch and keep themselves captive of their own free will.

If you've paid by credit card it's as restrictive as being in an open prison. You call your issuing bank (presuming you checked with them prior to purchase anyway), Paypal have no reason to refund themselves, but they want your repeat business. In any case they turn the screws on BFL and you will get your refund, but it took you aggro, when if you pad by a credit card you just call the issuing bank. It's what you pay their usurious fees for...

so you're saying that if we paid Paypal with a credit card we should have no problem? We'll see. i just sent BFL a refund request since they didn't meet the "end of July" delivery they advertised in May, before they had their "no refund" policy.

Yes, if you paid by CC via Paypal, you should have no problem. Even ACH transactions can be charged back. It just takes a lot of due diligence to get your refund--it took me a month, much like the OP. I sent 5 emails to BFL requesting refunds, spent a good deal of time talking to several PayPal representatives on numerous occasions, and Bank of America several times as well. Paypal actually had me do a charge back via my Bank to initiate the full refund from BFL.

Don't expect BFL to be of any help in your quest for a refund.

[Starlightbreaker]

y'all need to make new accounts and quote the OP there.

see how many people actually refunds.

[tigerfree]