Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon

[crumbs]

...
We have all the information you are looking for. However, as you know there are other 28nm ASICs in the design phase, and we don't want to reveal too much of our deck before their specs are locked down.

We made a public posting so people know about us and can contact us and we can provide a lot more information under an NDA.

@cointerra -
Your competitor, FastHash HashFast, has provided us with spectacular specs & a word of honor that they'll protect the bitcoin network from unscrupulous miners.
They have also promised to protect us, their customers, with assurance they will not flood the market with dirt-cheap hashpower.
Are you willing to offer the same promise?  Do you love us as much as they do?

[papamoi]

hi guys

i m little doubtful about the time delivery and the costs of their chips:

i ve contacted open silicon for an asic in april and they told me they wouldn t be able to deliver anything before 8/10 months so when cointerra is anouncing something for the end of this year i m very surprised.

i was told that the nre would be at least 3 m ,so i don t know how they are planning to succeed with 1/2 of this amount

anyway i m following as others

let s watch

[2112]

Sorry to break in, a quick question:  Is optimising layout to reduce noise & timing errors considered digital or analog domain? 

I thought a bit about how to answer this question without jumping into jargon and nitpicking. It will not be a direct answer, but an open ending line of thought.

Go into the miner software threads that have the longest history: cgminer and bfgminer. Note what was the allowable and optimum value for the hardware error rate reported as the technologies changed: CPU, GPU, FPGA & ASIC. Do you notice the trend? Which way is moving? What is the allowable error margin for some of the digital and analog devices that you know? You can make up your own mind after answering those questions.

Based on the past experience this subforum will soon be flooded by the posts from the professional bologna slicers. Would you like some NDA with your bologna?

[cointerra]

...
We have all the information you are looking for. However, as you know there are other 28nm ASICs in the design phase, and we don't want to reveal too much of our deck before their specs are locked down.

We made a public posting so people know about us and can contact us and we can provide a lot more information under an NDA.

@cointerra -
Your competitor, FastHash HashFast, has provided us with spectacular specs & a word of honor that they'll protect the bitcoin network from unscrupulous miners.
They have also promised to protect us, their customers, with assurance they will not flood the market with dirt-cheap hashpower.
Are you willing to offer the same promise?  Do you love us as much as they do?

We love you more. So we will provide you more perf/$ and perf/W. We will not flood the market with dirt-cheap hashpower, but it will be cheaper than others.

[ProfMac]

Thanks for rooting for Cointerra! We will make all Texans proud

Most real Texans aren't proud of anything that goes on in Austin, with the possible exception of football.  And then, only some years.   

In any case, I wish you the best of luck and greatest of fortune!

Ahem.  Many of the best and brightest go to Austin.

[crumbs]

...
We have all the information you are looking for. However, as you know there are other 28nm ASICs in the design phase, and we don't want to reveal too much of our deck before their specs are locked down.

We made a public posting so people know about us and can contact us and we can provide a lot more information under an NDA.

@cointerra -
Your competitor, FastHash HashFast, has provided us with spectacular specs & a word of honor that they'll protect the bitcoin network from unscrupulous miners.
They have also promised to protect us, their customers, with assurance they will not flood the market with dirt-cheap hashpower.
Are you willing to offer the same promise?  Do you love us as much as they do?

We love you more. So we will provide you more perf/$ and perf/W. We will not flood the market with dirt-cheap hashpower, but it will be cheaper than others.

OK then, as long as i get a kiss first & cab fare home.

[cointerra]

hi guys

i m little doubtful about the time delivery and the costs of their chips:

i ve contacted open silicon for an asic in april and they told me they wouldn t be able to deliver anything before 8/10 months so when cointerra is anouncing something for the end of this year i m very surprised.

i was told that the nre would be at least 3 m ,so i don t know how they are planning to succeed with 1/2 of this amount

anyway i m following as others

let s watch

Don't be doubtful. You don't know when we started to think we won't deliver. Our costs are lower because we are able to pack more GH/mm2, and we are able to do that because our W/GH is low.

[erk]

We love you more. So we will provide you more perf/$ and perf/W. We will not flood the market with dirt-cheap hashpower, but it will be cheaper than others.

The market is unconventional compared to most other IT components. At the moment there are more ASICs producers than there are GPU  chip producers for crypto mining.

You have ASICminer, Avalon, BFL, Bitfury, KNCminer, and you guys, yet If I want to purchase an ASIC device today, the best I can hope for is a negative ROI Block Erupter, or wait for months upon months in a seemingly never ending queue with cash tied up in pre-orders. I have never seen a market like that before, something has to give.

I think the winner will be the company that doesn't rely on pre-orders to fund development/production, and has stock on hand for new product launches. When an item runs out of stock, they stop taking money for it, and send you an email when it's back in stock so you can then place an order. That's how most other online electronics orders seem to work.

[FCTaiChi]

I agree erk, that the scenario you lay out would be ideal.  I think, though, that it is likely the winning companies will be the ones to deliver the most current in chip technology.
Until now ASICs have not used the most cutting edge designs.  Catching up to the most current tech should slow this growth rate a little bit.  Rather than being locked to what is achievable by the bitcoin community, it will be limited by the main technology curve.

[Ytterbium]

I think the winner will be the company that doesn't rely on pre-orders to fund development/production, and has stock on hand for new product launches. When an item runs out of stock, they stop taking money for it, and send you an email when it's back in stock so you can then place an order. That's how most other online electronics orders seem to work.

Possibly - but the problem is that they will also be able to charge a lot more money

The "We hate pre-orders" crowd isn't thinking clearly. They want massive profits with zero risk.  But chip makers have no reason to sell chips at anything less then what they think the chips would produce over the next 6, 12, months or whatever timeframe they have.

I don't know why people refuse to get this - if mining companies have chips on hand, and they don't have customer pre-orders to fill, then they are just going to mine with them, and will only sell at exorbitant prices!

At some point the market will be flooded and you'll be able to buy chips at close to their production cost.  But the difficulty will be so high it'll be hard to make more then your electrical costs.
___

Maybe in the future people will sell solar panels that will switch between bitcoin mining and selling electricity on the grid based on the current profitability...

[erk]

I agree erk, that the scenario you lay out would be ideal.  I think, though, that it is likely the winning companies will be the ones to deliver the most current in chip technology.
Until now ASICs have not used the most cutting edge designs.  Catching up to the most current tech should slow this growth rate a little bit.  Rather than being locked to what is achievable by the bitcoin community, it will be limited by the main technology curve.

How many people make mining rigs from HD 7990 cards? They would be the most cutting edge design atm. Most mining rigs are HD7950 based for ROI reasons, as the cutting edge generally costs more. There is a sweet spot.

There is not much electronics in an ASIC miner when you pull them apart and have a look, compared to say a GPU card, so the margins on the components are really high atm. That will fall with 5 or more manufacturers fighting for market share over the next 6mths. the price wars are on, you already have this crazy phenomenon where people are cancelling their spot in one pre-order queue, just to get into yet another pre-order queue from a slightly cheaper vendor!

I don't know why people refuse to get this - if mining companies have chips on hand, and they don't have customer pre-orders to fill, then they are just going to mine with them, and will only sell at exorbitant prices!
...

I don't believe that for a moment, as the sale revenue for a device that takes you most likely less than an hour to build, is way more than the weeks it would take to get the same money from it by using it to mine.

[Ytterbium]

How many people make mining rigs from HD 7990 cards? They would be the most cutting edge design atm. Most mining rigs are HD7950 based for ROI reasons, as the cutting edge generally costs more. There is a sweet spot.

The 7990 isn't more "cutting edge", it's just two 7970s on the same circuit board. The market is gamers, not miners who obviously don't care about ROI.  The high price is likely due to low production volume, and the fact it's basically a totally necessary luxury item people buy for bragging rights.

I don't know why people refuse to get this - if mining companies have chips on hand, and they don't have customer pre-orders to fill, then they are just going to mine with them, and will only sell at exorbitant prices!
...

I don't believe that for a moment, as the sale revenue for a device that takes you most likely less than an hour to build, is way more than the weeks it would take to get the same money from it by using it to mine.

That's insane. No one would sell something for the amount of money they think they'd be able to make in a couple weeks. 

Unless they felt the only way they could stay in business was to immediately flip the money and buy an even larger quantity of chips in order to stay competitive. And in that case it would mean the difficulty was going up so quickly that after a couple weeks the units would barely make anything anyway.

This idea that chip companies are just going to mass produce mining chips, take on all the risk associated with chip failure and rising difficulty and then just sell their chips to other people to make a guaranteed profit is not going to happen.  It's a fantasy.

People are not going to assume all the risk and then give away most of the profits.

[solex]

This idea that chip companies are just going to mass produce mining chips, take on all the risk associated with chip failure and rising difficulty and then just sell their chips to other people to make a guaranteed profit is not going to happen.  It's a fantasy.

People are not going to assume all the risk and then give away most of the profits.

No surprise that many of the ASICminer customers will struggle to earn back the price they paid for their hardware.  AM does the maths with projected difficulty, and takes the lions share of any conceivable returns of what they sell.

[goxed]

Meanwhile
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

If you're listing that link it's worth posting the following link as well to remind people why Bitcoin was created a year later and why an ex-senior government bond advisor who worked for Lehman Brothers and has a love for making money may be the last person you want involved in Bitcoin...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_Lehman_Brothers

Edit: This has to be BS. Just google: Avalon 200 million

 
http://openruby.com/bitcoin/pages/16096426-famed-trader-joe-lewis-backs-bitcoin

[dexX7]

Hi cointerra,

to build trust, I request a very simple thing to begin with: provide a proof of identify. This could simply be done by taking a picture of yourself with a note and greeting to this forum.

The people listed on the website are more or less well known, but till now, I can't be sure, if you are, who you claim to be.

[cointerra]

Hi cointerra,

to build trust, I request a very simple thing to begin with: provide a proof of identify. This could simply be done by taking a picture of yourself with a note and greeting to this forum.

The people listed on the website are more or less well known, but till now, I can't be sure, if you are, who you claim to be.

Even if I did that you could claim that I stole the picture from the web somewhere and posted here. We understand that until we start shipping hardware it will be hard to build complete trust. For those who have real interest in Cointerra either as retail customers, or bulk order customers or investors I request that they send an email to info@cointerra.com with their interest and we can discuss more.

[Ytterbium]

I wonder if this announcement, as well as HashFast's are more about getting the attention of major investors, like the guy who just invested $200m into Avalon as opposed to us 'lil pre-order guys.

[dexX7]

Even if I did that you could claim that I stole the picture from the web somewhere and posted here. We understand that until we start shipping hardware it will be hard to build complete trust. For those who have real interest in Cointerra either as retail customers, or bulk order customers or investors I request that they send an email to info@cointerra.com with their interest and we can discuss more.

I explain how I see this: You came here with a trust balance of 0 and I offered you a way to gain +1. Even if this is a small step on a larger trust scale, it is a start. Denying my request just moved your trust balance to -2. Digital pictures aren't tamper proofed, but I didn't ask for a random picture of one of the listed persons, but a personalized photo which would be harder to tamper. Like I said, step by step. Don't get me wrong, I had a neutral, non-biased position.

[eve]

Hi cointerra,

to build trust, I request a very simple thing to begin with: provide a proof of identify. This could simply be done by taking a picture of yourself with a note and greeting to this forum.

The people listed on the website are more or less well known, but till now, I can't be sure, if you are, who you claim to be.

Even if I did that you could claim that I stole the picture from the web somewhere and posted here. We understand that until we start shipping hardware it will be hard to build complete trust. For those who have real interest in Cointerra either as retail customers, or bulk order customers or investors I request that they send an email to info@cointerra.com with their interest and we can discuss more.

They must have tons of their own money, so why would they tell you all the facts of their asic chip.

[deadgiveaway]

Hi cointerra,

to build trust, I request a very simple thing to begin with: provide a proof of identify. This could simply be done by taking a picture of yourself with a note and greeting to this forum.

The people listed on the website are more or less well known, but till now, I can't be sure, if you are, who you claim to be.

Even if I did that you could claim that I stole the picture from the web somewhere and posted here. We understand that until we start shipping hardware it will be hard to build complete trust. For those who have real interest in Cointerra either as retail customers, or bulk order customers or investors I request that they send an email to info@cointerra.com with their interest and we can discuss more.

What do you need investors for if you have all the money you need? Will these investors be in position to destroy Bitcoin mining for the small guy if they have the money to buy potentially unlimited mining power? This is worrisome, and could sabotage Bitcoin entirely. I hope you opt to distribute power responsibly, if you truly have the means to create the fastest hardware. Responsibility is very important in this community, and those who violate it are never forgiven.