Bitcoin Forum
May 14, 2024, 01:08:06 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 [24] 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 ... 119 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast)  (Read 378365 times)
Stuartuk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 21, 2013, 09:46:47 PM
 #461

....repeatedly spreading false accusations, lies, and demanding the company release commercially sensitive information...
I assumed this was par for the course in an open forum where anyone (and everyone) can chime in with their opinions.

Will that's excellent thanks. So I'm sure if you feel that sort of thing is par for the course you won't be too reactive to me doing on this thread what icebreaker has done on the ACtM thread. Fair's fair I'm sure you will agree.

I'm pleased you have learned to disassociate your business experiences from your emotions. This means, amongst other things, that you can be truly ruthless in business.

I will bear in mind that relevant questions should be aimed at the ID team. Thanks.
1715692086
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715692086

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715692086
Reply with quote  #2

1715692086
Report to moderator
In order to achieve higher forum ranks, you need both activity points and merit points.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1715692086
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715692086

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715692086
Reply with quote  #2

1715692086
Report to moderator
1715692086
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715692086

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715692086
Reply with quote  #2

1715692086
Report to moderator
1715692086
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715692086

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715692086
Reply with quote  #2

1715692086
Report to moderator
Stuartuk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 21, 2013, 09:53:52 PM
 #462

I have many more shares in ACTM than you do I can assure you that.

As you can easily see there is a lot of "Fear" in the ActM thread since there hasn't been any substantial information in 33 Days.

Also I'd be very curious to see these "Accusations, Lies, and NDA Breaking Demands".

1) Please do assure me of this point, I'm not sure you have ANY ACtM shares so please - assure me.

2) There was a substantial information release ummm....yesterday...yes that's right, YESTERDAY.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2968841#msg2968841

3) Just today you have accused the ACtM Board of insider dealing and demanded a news release which is likely to prejudice the NDA and the future partnership with a major ASIC manufacturer.
And a few minutes ago you lied that I had criticised every IPO:
'I'd bet money that your ranting and mockery of every other IPO out there has causes more damage to ActM's reputation than iCEBREAKER himself.'
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2982314#msg2982314

So you agree that icebreaker has damaged ACtMs reputation but yet you are still his biggest supporter - how come 'Mr I Have Loads of ACtM Shares'? Are you insane or lying?
Stuartuk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 21, 2013, 10:03:44 PM
 #463

just bought 16k + shares under IPO price. People have sooo weak hands nowadays.. Cheesy

Have you thought about why they might be selling for a loss? Are they 'weak' - ergh who wants to be 'weak'? Weak is bad.

Or are they.....worried?
canth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001



View Profile
August 21, 2013, 11:15:15 PM
 #464

just bought 16k + shares under IPO price. People have sooo weak hands nowadays.. Cheesy

Have you thought about why they might be selling for a loss? Are they 'weak' - ergh who wants to be 'weak'? Weak is bad.

Or are they.....worried?

Well one example could be that they bought in with BTC purchased in USD a month ago @ .014 and now that BTC/USD has risen, they're willing to take a loss of 1-2% on selling at .013x and making 10-20% on the appreciation to fiat.

That or they don't want to wait months to see if they'll actually get the return expected - impatient investors expecting to get a quick bounce (no idea why they'd expect that as this isn't that type of investment).

Deprived
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 21, 2013, 11:36:01 PM
Last edit: August 21, 2013, 11:51:14 PM by Deprived
 #465

just bought 16k + shares under IPO price. People have sooo weak hands nowadays.. Cheesy

Have you thought about why they might be selling for a loss? Are they 'weak' - ergh who wants to be 'weak'? Weak is bad.

Or are they.....worried?

It doesn't have to be either.

There's general reasons why sometimes people have to sell securities that have nothing to do with the securities at all - emergencies happen or very profitable short-term opportunities become available as two simple examples.  The structure of this IPO adds additional reasons why it will happen in this case.

First thing you have to realise is that unless it becomes obvious that this will definitely make a large profit then there's no reason why anyone would rationally buy at .016 YET.  As there's no panic buying of the wall there's no urgency for anyone who WANTS to invest to do so right now - they can invest in a fixed-rate bond, Just-Dice, Coinlenders or whatever for a few months, keep the profits and THEN buy their shares at .016.  Or they can try to buy them cheaper in the interim.

That means there's an effective ceiling on price of .016 at present.  Which, in turn means that even if someone wants to invest in this it makes sense for them to sell now if (and only if) they can make more profit between now and the expiry date of the wall than the difference between the price they sell at and .016.

So right now there should be (and probably are) people acting entirely rationally who LIKE this investment but are still entirely correct to sell their shares now with the plan of buying back later.  And they'll be selling to the ones who want to invest in this and DON'T have other options that can make them more profit than the difference between current price and .016.

Assuming there's interest in this exceeding the volume of shares sold at .015 and lower then I'd STILL not expect the price to hit .016 until a few weeks before the cut-off date on them - but in that case I'd expect the price to gradually get back up nearer to .016 as the deadline approaches.

Information will, of course, change that.  If good news emerges then the .016 wall would start getting eaten quicker.  If bad news emerges then then it may never get reached at all.  But there's zero reason to buy from that wall right now and give up all profit for a few months AND gamble on all news being good.

In short what's happening now is people are selling who either have options to make profit short-term and/or believe the risk-weighted value of waiting for more news exceeds the difference between current price and .016.  Plus there'll be some who got cold feet plus some who sell anything they buy if they haven't had a dividend in a week.

As soon as the final batch of shares was announced to be a) large,  b) at a higher price and c) up for sale for ages it was a near certainty that it would just sit there for ages (only other option was that it would sell out fast - which seemed unlikely).  That's not a problem for the IPO - as they don't need (and likely can't even use) the funds right now anyway.  And that it's not being touched now says nothing about what will happen when the date gets nearer.

When there's no sensible reason for someone to do something (in this case buy at .016 NOW rather than later) then it's dumb to try to draw conclusions from the fact that they aren't doing it.  If the wall's still untouched a few days before the end date then it becomes a problem.

EDIT:  There's one more factor which could cause the .016 wall to start selling sooner - if the pass-through on BTC-TC gets approved (as there's a fair number of people who invest there and won't trade on Bitfunder).  At present that seems highly unlikely as the contract there hasn't been updated (It starts with "Each share represents 1/50,000,000 of the profit of DigiMex" which is no longer the case as the number of shares is no longer fixed).  But if it ever starts trading there then that could spur sales on Bitfunder as suddenly it may no longer be safe to assume you can wait until late October and still buy then at .016.
VolanicEruptor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 21, 2013, 11:51:48 PM
 #466

Yes, and from my experience with buying bitcoin stocks, I can say that it's going to be very hard selling those 7,000,000 shares because your only investors who are going to bite are long-termers.  By keeping that wall so big to raise more funds, you are keeping short-term speculators uninterested.  For there to be a healthy liquidy you need both type of investors.  I gave this same advice to hosted mining who started off with a wall much bigger than the funds they needed to get started, and they changed their agreement, however it was too late and they are not going to get funding before September as they had hoped.  

Take the wall down and put it up later at a higher price in smaller chunks.  You WILL get the funding you need before November if you do this..
The way you have it set up right now there is no chance for growth after your initial operation.

Plazma
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100



View Profile
August 22, 2013, 12:03:11 AM
 #467

Nice to see that people started realizing this is a scam.

BTC: 1A1Mwjfw2mTko4N2UuVQ3RK4hXJunsPA3j
XMP: AcT3PK4wofjCMt6irN4HXENUqPvoBJRWk3
Deprived
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 22, 2013, 12:22:10 AM
 #468

Yes, and from my experience with buying bitcoin stocks, I can say that it's going to be very hard selling those 7,000,000 shares because your only investors who are going to bite are long-termers.

That's not true - or even especially important anyway.  It doesn't benefit (and potentially harms) them to have a pump and dump run on their shares prior to operation even starting.

Short-termers can only make profit anyway if there's long-termers willing to end up holding the shares.

Making the wall invisible wouldn't substantially change anything - and changing the selling price wouldn't make sense after they'd added a commitment to repay .016/share before taking any management cut.  If they sold cheaper they'd be cutting their own throats, if they tried to sell higher they'd make that clause worthless.

If they don't need and can't use the funds now then there's no reason at all why they should risk a pump and dump being run on their IPO by trying to pretend there weren't another 7 million shares available at .016.  Their commitment has to be to the long-term investors not the short-term ones.  And I say that as someone who IS a short-term trader myself (I've bought and sold these shares and had no problem making a profit from it).

Much as I love making a profit buying at IPO then flipping at 2-10 times the price leaving the new purchasers with massively over-valued junk it's entirely unhealthy and bad for the companies involved plus the market in general (the market can't flourish if actual investors rather than speculators/traders can never buy anything at a reasonable price).
VolanicEruptor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 22, 2013, 12:51:26 AM
 #469

Speculators buying a stock directly results in the company getting their funding.  That simple.

Stuartuk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 22, 2013, 03:29:10 PM
 #470

Hey iceBreaker aka crumbs-

Still around 110k shares available before the 7MIL wall. Looks like you were right, these ARE selling like hot cakes! Why don't you get some more? Go on buddy, get as many eggs in this basket as possible, I would LOVE you to.
Stuartuk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 22, 2013, 03:32:30 PM
 #471

There's general reasons why sometimes people have to sell securities that have nothing to do with the securities at all - emergencies happen or very profitable short-term opportunities become available as two simple examples.

Sure sure I think most people will recognise that not every seller has lost faith in a security, some need the cash plain and simple. But the lack of buyers is a serious problem here. Well, I would see it as one but I sold all my ID shares last week.
bbxx
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


cryptoshark


View Profile WWW
August 22, 2013, 03:39:04 PM
 #472

There is no incentive to buy id shares.
Their value will not grow. It is just Pmb but not mining yet.
When it will start mining it will deliver only 60% bitcoins of 100% hardware cost.

But until then funds are frozen till sell at loss.
There are much better places to get real divs or pure btc like cl, jd, am etc.

Sorry for opening eyes.
Tamis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 22, 2013, 06:25:56 PM
 #473

Haven't read this thread since I got out, and boy after what I just read am I glad I got out !
hd060053
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 601
Merit: 503


View Profile
August 22, 2013, 07:47:50 PM
 #474

why is this security falling now? was there any bad news?

Will it fall more? To which price ?
alexius89
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 709
Merit: 500


Gridcoin Foundation


View Profile WWW
August 22, 2013, 07:52:11 PM
 #475

Bye Bye IceDrill

VolanicEruptor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 22, 2013, 09:04:25 PM
 #476

Yes most newcomers don't understand that 7,000,000 share wall is for future growth after phase 1.  Unfortunately it's hard to explain this and they should have issued shares in a different way, but we're stuck with this..  it's still a good investment and if the initial profits are good enough then that sell wall will start coming down.  I guess it's a good sign of confidence that it was put up in the first place..

Plazma
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100



View Profile
August 22, 2013, 10:06:24 PM
 #477

why is this security falling now? was there any bad news?

Will it fall more? To which price ?

The only reason it got that far was cos "Privet investitors" aka themselves bought most of the imp shares to trick people into investing, hoping there will be panic buy for the last shares.

BTC: 1A1Mwjfw2mTko4N2UuVQ3RK4hXJunsPA3j
XMP: AcT3PK4wofjCMt6irN4HXENUqPvoBJRWk3
CanOpener
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 34
Merit: 0


View Profile
August 23, 2013, 01:32:26 AM
 #478

excuse my ignorance. i have only heard of panic "sells" but what consitutes a panic "buy"? why would anyone panic to buy a share?


why is this security falling now? was there any bad news?

Will it fall more? To which price ?

The only reason it got that far was cos "Privet investitors" aka themselves bought most of the imp shares to trick people into investing, hoping there will be panic buy for the last shares.
JoTheKhan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 23, 2013, 01:50:27 AM
 #479

Panic Buy. Look at Labcoin's entire IPO process and then the few hours post their IPO. The whole thing was a panic buy that cost a lot of people money and made a lot of people money.
Plazma
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100



View Profile
August 23, 2013, 02:54:29 AM
 #480

Example of panic buy:
Imo stars with 25 milion shares. Afther first 10 milion shares get bought slowly over the course of couple of days / weeks. People start buying the last shares not to miss out on the ipo. so last 15milion shares get sold in few hours.

BTC: 1A1Mwjfw2mTko4N2UuVQ3RK4hXJunsPA3j
XMP: AcT3PK4wofjCMt6irN4HXENUqPvoBJRWk3
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 [24] 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 ... 119 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!