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Author Topic: Bitmain just announced the AntMiner A3 - 815GH/s Siacoin miner - Blake(2b)  (Read 12709 times)
madmartyk
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January 22, 2018, 05:26:28 PM
 #321

Can hardly wait when I'm the last in line for one of these oh boy! Still no shipping info.

At least you were able to get one.  I lost out on the BitMain lottery

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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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January 22, 2018, 06:36:23 PM
 #322

It's here and doing 830 GH/s after 5 mins Smiley


For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
http://www.ebay.com/sch/hawkfish007/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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January 22, 2018, 06:41:55 PM
 #323

It's here and doing 830 GH/s after 5 mins Smiley



When did you order?

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January 22, 2018, 06:43:32 PM
 #324

i Think that the chip temperature is too hight!!!!!
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January 22, 2018, 06:45:04 PM
 #325

It's here and doing 830 GH/s after 5 mins Smiley

https://i.imgur.com/QpmrZ0H.jpg

When did you order?


Probably within 5 mins when it became available, I am in Southern Cali.

For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
http://www.ebay.com/sch/hawkfish007/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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January 22, 2018, 06:45:15 PM
Last edit: January 22, 2018, 07:00:55 PM by eth_mining
 #326

Can someone tell me if we can run these in a aprtment in the US? I believe we have 125 V 15 A breakers. But the APW++ PSU on bitmain site says that 110 V will only provide 1200 W ourput. Are we SOL? Will the bathroom or kitchen special outlets do any help?
Run it from your dryer outlet.  Can buy outlet plug converters and extension cords.  You'll just have to hang dry your clothes for a while but you can put them in the room with the miner cuz it'll be hot!!!

You know tho, if past experience is any indicator, it's always cheaper to just buy the coin instead of the miner.  Coins that have asics always go up in price too, dramatically.  So I'm just going to buy SC.  I bought jupiters back in '13 and had I just bought the btc, I would have made out 100x better.

I am still confused what converter to buy and where. Can you suggest what to buy? I initially thought the below should work

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Connectors-14-30P-Welder-adapter/dp/B06XGQ951H/

But it looks like it is a converter for welder adapter which wont suit for the power cable to power the APW3++?

This is how my dryer power slot looks

https://imgur.com/a/Eais0

ANd this is the power cable I was planning to buy

https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-03134-Universal-IEC320C13/dp/B00005113L/

The answers are out there but what I was planning to do is goto home depot and just taking that pic with me and asking them in the dryer dept.  Being honest, I'm trying to run another appliance, in another room, requiring this power.  You'll need to also buy a power cord.  The miner power supply does not come with a power cord.  You can buy a power cord that will fit whatever extension you find.  I don't have the answers at my fingertips because I stopped looking.  I didn't get one.  There's a facebook group that will be more than willing to help.  This dude on youtube is the real deal.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg8qb-blh8xGMYcBPC1ntvA
His facebook page is awesome! www.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F604653876592512%2F

^I hope that link works, I quit facebook the other day.  His fb link is in his videos.

I was implying the same thing...modify a dryer plug, and don't run both at once.  Hang clothes lines cause this thing is gonna make some heat. Smiley
I'm thinking the APW3++ power supply has a terminal lug hookup.
Making a standard dryer plug work will be cheap and easy for this. $20 at Lowes/HD.

If the APW3++ has a plug interface it will be about $10 more and need some soldering work...

I am such a noob on these. Will you please post what item to buy in hd/lowes and how to set it up?

I am the op that posted pics and I am still clueless on how to use the dryer outlet..

I see on ebay the APW3 uses a standard "PC" plug.

Your best/safest bet is to find someone with electrical experience to make something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Outlet-220V-110V-Splitter-for-S9-L3-D3-S7-Antminer-Bitmain-Bitcoin-APW3-1200W/173081170837?hash=item284c711395:g:BtEAAOSwBRFaN0Pq
(don't be scared, there's only like $40 of parts in that thing.)

But have it made with 1 double or single outlet for a 220v plug.  

Then just get a 220v plug for it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BITMAIN-APW3-220v-Power-Cord-for-Antminer-L3-S7-or-S9-14AWG-3FT/273032967692?hash=item3f9208760c:g:pHgAAOSw301aYk-f

Pic 3 in the first link shows the different dryer cable types.  You'd have to check your outlet to see what you need.
If you do it that way, it should be up to code.


The cheaper option is to get the 2 cables, cut the ends off to get to the wires, solder the proper wires together and heavily insulate them.  I'm not sure of the phasing/naming of each wire but it should be available by searching the web.  This will only save you like $10 in parts, so I'd try to go the first way described.

Since you say you have little/no experience with electrical, I would definitely find someone in the know to do it.  I used to work with 8000V DC at work and still won't pull any 240V AC plug without wearing heavy gloves.




Thank you so much. The $150 part is scary on the first item you posted on ebay but if it would work, I will buy. The seller also wants a lot of time to assemble and ship. Also, he says that each outlet (out of the 4) is 110 V 20 A. If it's 110 V, wouldn't that negate what I am trying to do since APW3 needs 220V?

I went to Lowe's today and I am wondering if I can do the below?

Buy the below dryer power cord (to plug into my dryer power outlet)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-6-ft-4-Wire-Black-Dryer-Appliance-Power-Cord/3264993

And wire it with the below connector

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-20-Amp-250-Volt-Black-White-3-Wire-Grounding-Connector/3739253

Then use the below power cable to connect to the above connector and power the APW3

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BITMAIN-APW3-220v-Power-Cord-for-Antminer-L3-S7-or-S9-14AWG-3FT/273032967692?hash=item3f9208760c:g:pHgAAOSw301aYk-f#shpCntId

Will it work? Also, I am also not risking my life by not playing with the actual wall outlet right? lol

I was just using that ebay item to show what you can do.  The seller should be able to make them with 220v outlets.

What you came up with should work but you need to be careful and make sure the connections are correct.  There are 4 wires on the dryer cable but only 3 on the adapter.  Dig around the net and you should be able to get it done.

Thanks. May be I should have the electrician at Lowes do the connection for me after I buy it?

Is there any chance you could tell what 3 to connect from the dryer wore to what on the connector and which one to leave alone on the dryer  wire?

I tried to google but not many results since this is a rare situation I guess. Most of it was about how to change the dyer from 3 prong to 4 prong Sad
hawkfish007
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January 22, 2018, 07:22:42 PM
 #327

i Think that the chip temperature is too hight!!!!!

I think thats ok, I run my S9s at chip temp 100-105C with air cooling only, no issues. Night time it goes down to 60-65C because of the ambient temperature drops.

For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
http://www.ebay.com/sch/hawkfish007/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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January 22, 2018, 07:36:57 PM
 #328

Can someone tell me if we can run these in a aprtment in the US? I believe we have 125 V 15 A breakers. But the APW++ PSU on bitmain site says that 110 V will only provide 1200 W ourput. Are we SOL? Will the bathroom or kitchen special outlets do any help?
Run it from your dryer outlet.  Can buy outlet plug converters and extension cords.  You'll just have to hang dry your clothes for a while but you can put them in the room with the miner cuz it'll be hot!!!

You know tho, if past experience is any indicator, it's always cheaper to just buy the coin instead of the miner.  Coins that have asics always go up in price too, dramatically.  So I'm just going to buy SC.  I bought jupiters back in '13 and had I just bought the btc, I would have made out 100x better.

I am still confused what converter to buy and where. Can you suggest what to buy? I initially thought the below should work

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Connectors-14-30P-Welder-adapter/dp/B06XGQ951H/

But it looks like it is a converter for welder adapter which wont suit for the power cable to power the APW3++?

This is how my dryer power slot looks

https://imgur.com/a/Eais0

ANd this is the power cable I was planning to buy

https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-03134-Universal-IEC320C13/dp/B00005113L/

The answers are out there but what I was planning to do is goto home depot and just taking that pic with me and asking them in the dryer dept.  Being honest, I'm trying to run another appliance, in another room, requiring this power.  You'll need to also buy a power cord.  The miner power supply does not come with a power cord.  You can buy a power cord that will fit whatever extension you find.  I don't have the answers at my fingertips because I stopped looking.  I didn't get one.  There's a facebook group that will be more than willing to help.  This dude on youtube is the real deal.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg8qb-blh8xGMYcBPC1ntvA
His facebook page is awesome! www.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F604653876592512%2F

^I hope that link works, I quit facebook the other day.  His fb link is in his videos.

I was implying the same thing...modify a dryer plug, and don't run both at once.  Hang clothes lines cause this thing is gonna make some heat. Smiley
I'm thinking the APW3++ power supply has a terminal lug hookup.
Making a standard dryer plug work will be cheap and easy for this. $20 at Lowes/HD.

If the APW3++ has a plug interface it will be about $10 more and need some soldering work...

I am such a noob on these. Will you please post what item to buy in hd/lowes and how to set it up?

I am the op that posted pics and I am still clueless on how to use the dryer outlet..

I see on ebay the APW3 uses a standard "PC" plug.

Your best/safest bet is to find someone with electrical experience to make something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Outlet-220V-110V-Splitter-for-S9-L3-D3-S7-Antminer-Bitmain-Bitcoin-APW3-1200W/173081170837?hash=item284c711395:g:BtEAAOSwBRFaN0Pq
(don't be scared, there's only like $40 of parts in that thing.)

But have it made with 1 double or single outlet for a 220v plug.  

Then just get a 220v plug for it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BITMAIN-APW3-220v-Power-Cord-for-Antminer-L3-S7-or-S9-14AWG-3FT/273032967692?hash=item3f9208760c:g:pHgAAOSw301aYk-f

Pic 3 in the first link shows the different dryer cable types.  You'd have to check your outlet to see what you need.
If you do it that way, it should be up to code.


The cheaper option is to get the 2 cables, cut the ends off to get to the wires, solder the proper wires together and heavily insulate them.  I'm not sure of the phasing/naming of each wire but it should be available by searching the web.  This will only save you like $10 in parts, so I'd try to go the first way described.

Since you say you have little/no experience with electrical, I would definitely find someone in the know to do it.  I used to work with 8000V DC at work and still won't pull any 240V AC plug without wearing heavy gloves.




Thank you so much. The $150 part is scary on the first item you posted on ebay but if it would work, I will buy. The seller also wants a lot of time to assemble and ship. Also, he says that each outlet (out of the 4) is 110 V 20 A. If it's 110 V, wouldn't that negate what I am trying to do since APW3 needs 220V?

I went to Lowe's today and I am wondering if I can do the below?

Buy the below dryer power cord (to plug into my dryer power outlet)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-6-ft-4-Wire-Black-Dryer-Appliance-Power-Cord/3264993

And wire it with the below connector

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-20-Amp-250-Volt-Black-White-3-Wire-Grounding-Connector/3739253

Then use the below power cable to connect to the above connector and power the APW3

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BITMAIN-APW3-220v-Power-Cord-for-Antminer-L3-S7-or-S9-14AWG-3FT/273032967692?hash=item3f9208760c:g:pHgAAOSw301aYk-f#shpCntId

Will it work? Also, I am also not risking my life by not playing with the actual wall outlet right? lol

I was just using that ebay item to show what you can do.  The seller should be able to make them with 220v outlets.

What you came up with should work but you need to be careful and make sure the connections are correct.  There are 4 wires on the dryer cable but only 3 on the adapter.  Dig around the net and you should be able to get it done.

Thanks. May be I should have the electrician at Lowes do the connection for me after I buy it?

Is there any chance you could tell what 3 to connect from the dryer wore to what on the connector and which one to leave alone on the dryer  wire?

I tried to google but not many results since this is a rare situation I guess. Most of it was about how to change the dyer from 3 prong to 4 prong Sad

If your dryer is a 240v line anyway, FIRST turn off the breaker to that line,  grab a L6-30R outlet like this - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-30-Amp-250-Volt-Flush-Mounting-Grounding-Locking-Outlet-Black-2620/301305006 and swap it out.  Then Grab a PDU with a L6-30P plug like this -https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Outlets-Rack-Mount-PDUH30HV19 (this one is way over priced) and you can run 4 S9s if it is 240V or 3 S9s if it is 220V
eth_mining
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January 22, 2018, 08:01:28 PM
 #329

Can someone tell me if we can run these in a aprtment in the US? I believe we have 125 V 15 A breakers. But the APW++ PSU on bitmain site says that 110 V will only provide 1200 W ourput. Are we SOL? Will the bathroom or kitchen special outlets do any help?
Run it from your dryer outlet.  Can buy outlet plug converters and extension cords.  You'll just have to hang dry your clothes for a while but you can put them in the room with the miner cuz it'll be hot!!!

You know tho, if past experience is any indicator, it's always cheaper to just buy the coin instead of the miner.  Coins that have asics always go up in price too, dramatically.  So I'm just going to buy SC.  I bought jupiters back in '13 and had I just bought the btc, I would have made out 100x better.

I am still confused what converter to buy and where. Can you suggest what to buy? I initially thought the below should work

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Connectors-14-30P-Welder-adapter/dp/B06XGQ951H/

But it looks like it is a converter for welder adapter which wont suit for the power cable to power the APW3++?

This is how my dryer power slot looks

https://imgur.com/a/Eais0

ANd this is the power cable I was planning to buy

https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-03134-Universal-IEC320C13/dp/B00005113L/

The answers are out there but what I was planning to do is goto home depot and just taking that pic with me and asking them in the dryer dept.  Being honest, I'm trying to run another appliance, in another room, requiring this power.  You'll need to also buy a power cord.  The miner power supply does not come with a power cord.  You can buy a power cord that will fit whatever extension you find.  I don't have the answers at my fingertips because I stopped looking.  I didn't get one.  There's a facebook group that will be more than willing to help.  This dude on youtube is the real deal.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg8qb-blh8xGMYcBPC1ntvA
His facebook page is awesome! www.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F604653876592512%2F

^I hope that link works, I quit facebook the other day.  His fb link is in his videos.

I was implying the same thing...modify a dryer plug, and don't run both at once.  Hang clothes lines cause this thing is gonna make some heat. Smiley
I'm thinking the APW3++ power supply has a terminal lug hookup.
Making a standard dryer plug work will be cheap and easy for this. $20 at Lowes/HD.

If the APW3++ has a plug interface it will be about $10 more and need some soldering work...

I am such a noob on these. Will you please post what item to buy in hd/lowes and how to set it up?

I am the op that posted pics and I am still clueless on how to use the dryer outlet..

I see on ebay the APW3 uses a standard "PC" plug.

Your best/safest bet is to find someone with electrical experience to make something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Outlet-220V-110V-Splitter-for-S9-L3-D3-S7-Antminer-Bitmain-Bitcoin-APW3-1200W/173081170837?hash=item284c711395:g:BtEAAOSwBRFaN0Pq
(don't be scared, there's only like $40 of parts in that thing.)

But have it made with 1 double or single outlet for a 220v plug.  

Then just get a 220v plug for it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BITMAIN-APW3-220v-Power-Cord-for-Antminer-L3-S7-or-S9-14AWG-3FT/273032967692?hash=item3f9208760c:g:pHgAAOSw301aYk-f

Pic 3 in the first link shows the different dryer cable types.  You'd have to check your outlet to see what you need.
If you do it that way, it should be up to code.


The cheaper option is to get the 2 cables, cut the ends off to get to the wires, solder the proper wires together and heavily insulate them.  I'm not sure of the phasing/naming of each wire but it should be available by searching the web.  This will only save you like $10 in parts, so I'd try to go the first way described.

Since you say you have little/no experience with electrical, I would definitely find someone in the know to do it.  I used to work with 8000V DC at work and still won't pull any 240V AC plug without wearing heavy gloves.




Thank you so much. The $150 part is scary on the first item you posted on ebay but if it would work, I will buy. The seller also wants a lot of time to assemble and ship. Also, he says that each outlet (out of the 4) is 110 V 20 A. If it's 110 V, wouldn't that negate what I am trying to do since APW3 needs 220V?

I went to Lowe's today and I am wondering if I can do the below?

Buy the below dryer power cord (to plug into my dryer power outlet)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-6-ft-4-Wire-Black-Dryer-Appliance-Power-Cord/3264993

And wire it with the below connector

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-20-Amp-250-Volt-Black-White-3-Wire-Grounding-Connector/3739253

Then use the below power cable to connect to the above connector and power the APW3

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BITMAIN-APW3-220v-Power-Cord-for-Antminer-L3-S7-or-S9-14AWG-3FT/273032967692?hash=item3f9208760c:g:pHgAAOSw301aYk-f#shpCntId

Will it work? Also, I am also not risking my life by not playing with the actual wall outlet right? lol

I was just using that ebay item to show what you can do.  The seller should be able to make them with 220v outlets.

What you came up with should work but you need to be careful and make sure the connections are correct.  There are 4 wires on the dryer cable but only 3 on the adapter.  Dig around the net and you should be able to get it done.

Thanks. May be I should have the electrician at Lowes do the connection for me after I buy it?

Is there any chance you could tell what 3 to connect from the dryer wore to what on the connector and which one to leave alone on the dryer  wire?

I tried to google but not many results since this is a rare situation I guess. Most of it was about how to change the dyer from 3 prong to 4 prong Sad

If your dryer is a 240v line anyway, FIRST turn off the breaker to that line,  grab a L6-30R outlet like this - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-30-Amp-250-Volt-Flush-Mounting-Grounding-Locking-Outlet-Black-2620/301305006 and swap it out.  Then Grab a PDU with a L6-30P plug like this -https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Outlets-Rack-Mount-PDUH30HV19 (this one is way over priced) and you can run 4 S9s if it is 240V or 3 S9s if it is 220V

I really dont want to play with the outlet on the wall. That is the reason I asked if the below method will work Sad

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2769696.msg28656258#msg28656258

Someone replied it should work but i have to be careful with connecing 4-prong dryer cord to 3-prong connector. And i asked the below on that

Is there any chance you could tell what 3 to connect from the dryer wore to what on the connector and which one to leave alone on the dryer  wire?

I tried to google but not many results since this is a rare situation I guess. Most of it was about how to change the dyer from 3 prong to 4 prong Sad
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January 22, 2018, 08:04:18 PM
 #330

    No ship info yet, what's going on BM?  Sheesh.  You want me ROI so that I can buy more,...right,,,, right?? lol

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January 22, 2018, 08:33:43 PM
 #331

It's here and doing 830 GH/s after 5 mins Smiley

https://i.imgur.com/QpmrZ0H.jpg

could you please tell me how to configure it, i will receive mine day after tomorrow
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January 22, 2018, 09:05:11 PM
 #332

Wait a second.. All i need is the below 2 items to run AWP3++ from my dryer out in US, right?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-WORKS-10-3-STW-1-ft-14-30P-30-Amp-4-Prong-Dryer-Plug-to-6-15-20R-20-Amp-250-Volt-T-Blade-Connector-S1430620-012/303873834?keyword=14-30p+stw&searchtype=text

https://www.amazon.com/Lynn-Electronics-C13620P15A-10F-60320-C13-10-Feet/dp/B0093WFT5C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516655022&sr=8-1&keywords=6-20p+c13

Right, right? Someone correct me and kill my excitement. Or tell me I finally found it Smiley
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January 22, 2018, 09:43:41 PM
 #333

they really need to start auctioning off shipping priorities for each batch

 Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed
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January 22, 2018, 09:44:36 PM
 #334

Yes that looks correct / I prefer the splitter wire though  Tongue

and you probably want those wires to be as long as possible
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January 22, 2018, 09:49:05 PM
 #335

It's here and doing 830 GH/s after 5 mins Smiley

https://i.imgur.com/QpmrZ0H.jpg

could you please tell me how to configure it, i will receive mine day after tomorrow

Select the server address that is closest to you followed by  ":" and 3333. I am using SC address from Bittrex as my worker (add .worker name if you like) and password x.

https://siamining.com/help

For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
http://www.ebay.com/sch/hawkfish007/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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January 22, 2018, 10:39:24 PM
 #336

It's here and doing 830 GH/s after 5 mins Smiley

https://i.imgur.com/QpmrZ0H.jpg

could you please tell me how to configure it, i will receive mine day after tomorrow

Select the server address that is closest to you followed by  ":" and 3333. I am using SC address from Bittrex as my worker (add .worker name if you like) and password x.

https://siamining.com/help

did you finish the youtube review video
nsummy
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January 22, 2018, 11:34:38 PM
 #337

Can hardly wait when I'm the last in line for one of these oh boy! Still no shipping info.

At least you were able to get one.  I lost out on the BitMain lottery

Let me fix that for you "At least you were able to pay for one"  Not getting it is the problem so far!
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January 22, 2018, 11:35:58 PM
 #338

Can hardly wait when I'm the last in line for one of these oh boy! Still no shipping info.

At least you were able to get one.  I lost out on the BitMain lottery

Let me fix that for you "At least you were able to pay for one"  Not getting it is the problem so far!

I tried for hours and kept getting the sold out.  Actually had the BCH ready. 

dlezama
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January 22, 2018, 11:41:14 PM
 #339

Can hardly wait when I'm the last in line for one of these oh boy! Still no shipping info.

At least you were able to get one.  I lost out on the BitMain lottery

Let me fix that for you "At least you were able to pay for one"  Not getting it is the problem so far!

I tried for hours and kept getting the sold out.  Actually had the BCH ready.  
Man, I had it on my cart and no BCH or any coin I could turn into BCH. Next time we need to work together Smiley Now that expired order sits there on the top of my bitmain account for me to look at it and cry.
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January 23, 2018, 12:31:28 AM
Last edit: January 23, 2018, 01:00:07 AM by senseless
 #340

I really dont want to play with the outlet on the wall. That is the reason I asked if the below method will work Sad

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2769696.msg28656258#msg28656258

Someone replied it should work but i have to be careful with connecing 4-prong dryer cord to 3-prong connector. And i asked the below on that

Is there any chance you could tell what 3 to connect from the dryer wore to what on the connector and which one to leave alone on the dryer  wire?

I tried to google but not many results since this is a rare situation I guess. Most of it was about how to change the dyer from 3 prong to 4 prong Sad


This stuff is dangerous, if you don't know what you're doing you should hire an electrician. You can't take your bitcoins with you after you electrocute yourself.

I explain 240v circuits in the USA here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2772135.msg28578662#msg28578662

The 4 prong dryer is 2 hots, a neutral and a ground. It could be rewired to provide 2x 120v circuits (if the shared neutral awg is large enough), but may not be up to code if the breaker is too large. A lot of these dryer breakers are like 50 amps. You'd need to swap out the breaker at minimum for a lower rated one to stay in code. The best would be to swap it out for a 30A 2 pole breaker, use the red, black and green wire and use the L6-30R outlet. You'd end up with 240V and 30A of power (5.76kW continuously usable). The white wire you'd want to disconnect at both ends and tape / label where it goes.

Note: I am not an electrician. I know enough to know when I don't know something (could probably pass a journeyman test). Which is only slightly better than knowing enough to be dangerous.


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