[Dispute resolved and sunshine and beams and all that]

[KeyserSoze]

Damn. I was interested in BitFu... deposited 1 BTC and all. Not anymore. Not supporting you, BitMole.
I've withdrawn that 1 BTC, and given it to KeyserSoze. You deserve it more than BitMole does.

Yikes, wow, I did receive a BTC. Thank you cuddlefish.
I should point out I'm not looking for hand outs. Just making the community aware of Bitmole's indiscretion.

[1714466042]

1714466042

[1714466042]

1714466042

[Smalleyster]

Damn. I was interested in BitFu... deposited 1 BTC and all. Not anymore. Not supporting you, BitMole.

I've withdrawn that 1 BTC, and given it to KeyserSoze. You deserve it more than BitMole does.

Good on ya!

[error]

Since I apparently have way more energy to argue this than most of you do, and because I know I'm right in not paying OP now for a product that no longer exists as some kind of sick reward for childish impatience, I'm just going to restate my claim each and every time some new English illiterate posts here with a 'you should pay' one liner.

Point of this argument: I'm an honest person who keeps my word. Extenuating circumstances beyond my control caused a delay in payment. Op not only did not bother communicating with me, but jumped to conclusions about my ethics and intentions. He then out of spite gave freely to the public the private works of which he originally was awaiting payment. Case in point: there will be no payment, not for a lack of funds, but for a lack of product. Case closed.

Honest? You claim the product you were delivered suddenly doesn't exist? That's honest? You must be from some other universe. Good luck getting anyone to trust you with anything.

[KeyserSoze]

Since I apparently have way more energy to argue this than most of you do, and because I know I'm right in not paying OP now for a product that no longer exists as some kind of sick reward for childish impatience, I'm just going to restate my claim each and every time some new English illiterate posts here with a 'you should pay' one liner.

Point of this argument: I'm an honest person who keeps my word. Extenuating circumstances beyond my control caused a delay in payment. Op not only did not bother communicating with me, but jumped to conclusions about my ethics and intentions. He then out of spite gave freely to the public the private works of which he originally was awaiting payment. Case in point: there will be no payment, not for a lack of funds, but for a lack of product. Case closed.

Your distorted view of reality is charming. Comparing me, and anyone who has read the facts and agreed, to a child is especially ironic as it is children who share your distortion. I marvel at your ability to continue to sell yourself on your honesty. The fact you can continue to type "I'm an honest person who keeps my word" in the face of your actions is commendable. It shows strength. I'd guess most of us, were we in your shoes, eventually, maybe late at night or when we're alone with our thoughts on the subway to work, might instead be haunted that we were lying to ourselves.

[Smalleyster]

I'm an honest person who keeps my word. Extenuating circumstances beyond my control caused a delay in payment.

If you had any shread of decency you would have alerted him of that supposed condition and this probably would never have happened. You further prove your lack of decency or honesty by continuing your lies and not just paying what you owe.

You must be really doing well when you can't even come up with *one* bitcoin within *five* days.

[x0Jakeyboy0x]

...

None of this changes the essential fact that you agreed to make a payment, then did not, and then stated that you would not do so. I doubt that anyone on this forum will do business with you after reading this thread in its entirety.

I won't take sides here, I admit I have yet to even read through the many voluminous novels of discourse. However I would like to note this forum seems to treat the idea of scamming quite interestingly. Seems that a reputation system could be implemented and be much more effective. Labeling a person a once and for all "SCAMMER" though is pretty condemning to the rest of their actions, might as well ban them.

[BitcoinPorn]

Way too quick to throw the tag of 'scammer' on BitMole, I think his intentions were not to rip off, those tags really should be reserved for the people who go into things where you can tell it was only to rip someone off, I really don't think that was the case here.  To put him on FoodStamp level without giving the chance to make right publicly when all this wrongs were just put out publicly, seems fucked up.

But dear lord, too late lol.

Way random.  That basic coin graphic that Soze did is easily worth $30-40 in the real world, easily, I hope the value or worth in that was never truly in question.

[error]

Way too quick to throw the tag of 'scammer' on BitMole, I think his intentions were not to rip off, those tags really should be reserved for the people who go into things where you can tell it was only to rip someone off, I really don't think that was the case here.  To put him on FoodStamp level without giving the chance to make right publicly when all this wrongs were just put out publicly, seems fucked up.

But dear lord, too late lol.

Way random.  That basic coin graphic that Soze did is easily worth $30-40 in the real world, easily, I hope the value or worth in that was never truly in question.

He HAD the chance to make it right, and publicly stated he refused to pay. Right in this thread! That's why he got the scammer tag.

[BitcoinPorn]

You say it like if I had paid at any point, it would be taken away. We both know no one is paying attention to this until the labeled 'scammer' says something. If I hadn't mentioned ANYTHING and just let this retard bark to himself, I would have been fine. This attention and label is the price i am paying for sticking up for myself and what it right. I don't mind paying it. 

Fuck dude,  make good now.  Fuck the tag, who cares at this point, but be good with god (lol).  Seriously though, he did the work, pay him off, be done with the matter.  If you want to run your site, you need to make this right.  I still think that scammer tag should be reserved for people who went into a situation knowingly trying to rip someone off, which I don't believe you did.   And it sucks there is no reverse for this, a tag for  KeyserSoze for throwing this out publicly without giving you that 'one last chance', but I guess he waited, I have not been in a situation like this, so I guess the only thing was to have that payment for the goods for sure set aside beforehand.   Best of luck and hope this gets resolved, I really like your game set up.

[Maged]

He HAD the chance to make it right, and publicly stated he refused to pay. Right in this thread! That's why he got the scammer tag.

You say it like if I had paid at any point, it would be taken away.

Up until you said that you REFUSED to pay, you would not have been marked as a scammer. Given your otherwise great reputation, I was willing to give you extra time to come up with a payment plan before sending this off to our administrator.

We both know no one is paying attention to this until the labeled 'scammer' says something. If I hadn't mentioned ANYTHING and just let this retard bark to himself, I would have been fine.

Absolutely not. I was following the thread. I was first going to require that the OP PM you about the thread. Then, after a few days, I would PM you myself. If there was still no follow-up from you and you had logged in since I PM'd you, only then would we have marked you as a scammer.

[ottodv]

I am sure another opinion won't be helpful but here it is anyway.

I read both sides of the story, and I can see how both sides think they are right.

On the one hand my impression is that bitmole probably had the intention to pay - honestly I find it hard to imagine that someone like bitmole would purposefully try to scam someone out of 1 BTC. On the other hand I find it strange that someone heavily into bitcoins isn't able to come up with 1 BTC quickly or offer an alternative method of payment.

Seems to me that marking bitmole as a scammer is a just a bit too severe though, to me he doesn't appear to be a real scammer, just someone who had a business disagreement with someone else. This also devalues the scammer tag in my opinion, which should be reserved for real scumbags.

In anycase, I'd suggest the following:

- bitmole pays KeyserSoze 1 BTC
- bitmole loses the scammer tag on the forum (hopefully the admins agree)
- KeyserSoze and bitmole say sorry to each other
- we all move on to better things

And bitmole, is 1 BTC really worth all this fuss, even if you are right? Also you can still use that graphic exclusively, he didn't give the rights away to anyone else. I can certainly understand why you may feel pissed off, but my advice is still to pay and move on to better things.

[kookiekrak]

based on the way bitmole's acting in this thread, i wouldn't be surprised if he refuses to pay someone else for work that they did, just because he isn't able to get the money on time.

scammer tag should stay until he pays.

you asked for the work, you got it. not keyser's problem what you do with it.

[KeyserSoze]

I won't take sides here, I admit I have yet to even read through the many voluminous novels of discourse. However I would like to note this forum seems to treat the idea of scamming quite interestingly. Seems that a reputation system could be implemented and be much more effective. Labeling a person a once and for all "SCAMMER" though is pretty condemning to the rest of their actions, might as well ban them.

I wasn't entirely sure how I felt about the whole ordeal either. All I know is it seems these days the idea of repercussions for one's actions seems almost non-existent. Bitmole lied several times and broke his agreement -- he had at that point apparently never even had a BTC and by his own admission for some reason couldn't buy one on an exchange even though he now says he has thousands of dollars at his disposal. This can only tell me he'd lie again in the future.

Whether it was intentional or tough luck or whatever other excuse you want to come up with, the fact remains he made a promise for money and broke it. There are repercussions. Even if its only a social stigma like the embarrassment of the "scammer" tag. It's not as if there are many options for punishment. And using a simpler reputation scale to rate him as "only somewhat of a scammer" because it was "only" 1BTC probably wouldn't have much affect on him. He's already said he will proudly continue wearing the current full scammer label, though I understand most people labeled as scammer here probably do this as a defense mechanism to assure the rest of us they don't care.

I hold out hope for him still. I do honestly believe he probably had good intentions at the start. Maybe this just makes me a good mark, I don't know.

He seems to be aware his integrity is diminished. The only thing standing in the way of a resolution (which he asked for either in this thread or some other) is his pride. He called me 'butthurt'. While I'm still pooping OK, I think he's pridehurt. He claims he won't pay because there is no longer a product. Obviously since it still exists he's manufactured a reason to cover his pridehurt. He feels in some sick twisted way now that if he pays he's giving in to the social pressure of the community because he feels his reputation can no longer be restored, when in reality paying his debt is the only way to restore honour. It's called "the right thing to do."

So he'll either remain standing on the warped principle that his theft was justified while the community continues reading about it and wondering if they should trust him and/or his endeavors, or he'll do the right thing and come out smelling like a rose. Maybe a 3-day old rose, but still.... I will be the one who becomes the town fool because I didn't wait long enough to be paid. I'll even lobby the moderators to get rid of the scammer tag though I'm a newbie and don't know if that would help or not.

AT this point it couldn't possibly even be about the worth of the 1BTC. I'm rooting for Bitmole to restore his honour. I hold out hope, small as it may be. In any case Bitmole is adamant about not paying his debt and the longer it goes on the less rose-like he's smelling. We can only yammer about it so much. The entire debacle could be restored if he can swallow his pride.

[Maged]

I can't say much since this was sent to me via PM, but BitMole is apparently willing to resolve this. I asked him to post the message he sent me here, so hopefully he will do that.

[fabianhjr]

Well for a time we had a reputation system, however it felt apart because of "hitmen" and "aid yourself" services for Bitcoins.

[Smalleyster]

I can't say much since this was sent to me via PM, but BitMole is apparently willing to resolve this. I asked him to post the message he sent me here, so hopefully he will do that.

That would be nice.

[BitcoinPorn]

Don't overdue it.  Just send him the 1btc you owe him and give me that other half, " I foolishly made a deal without verifying if I had the funds first (-_-;, that you acted irrationally, and that we resolved it." should have been the whole post :p

I feel great pity on this and hope others take the time to remove the emotion from your posts and see how kind of confusing this situation was.

Also, dear lord you hit the nail on the head with the amount of newbies, spreadsheets, "games" and bullshit that persists, sadly though I don't blame all the mods, a lot of these forums is plain and simple "User Error".  I work with nearly no one on the forums past some few I was messaging early on, and I tend to only take people who have projects in development serious (unless within the Bitcoin Discussion or Newbie forums, then it's no hold barred).   I hope you continue to try out other projects

[Smalleyster]

That is a rather unimpressive response.

To the scammed one:
DO NOT GIVE YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER.

To the still scammer:
PAY THE MAN IN BITCOINS OR LEAVE THIS FORUM
 Hint: the payment address is in his sig

JMHO

[error]

Wait a minute, you didn't pay because you thought nobody in authority was watching? I'm not sure I follow the logic there. I honor my commitments whether third parties are watching me or not. If you really want to be successful with Bitcoin, or with any other business, I highly recommend doing the same. You will find that your reputation is far more powerful than any authority figure.

[Smalleyster]

Wait a minute, you didn't pay because you thought nobody in authority was watching?

I found that part exremely disturbing too.

The more he types the bigger the hole gets.