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Author Topic: [Dispute resolved and sunshine and beams and all that]  (Read 8671 times)
BitcoinPorn
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July 14, 2011, 01:15:09 AM
 #41

Wait a minute, you didn't pay because you thought nobody in authority was watching? I'm not sure I follow the logic there.

As a spectator on the sides, I read it differently.  "I had felt that the RIGHT thing to do was to defend myself against what seemed to be a bunch of KeyserSoze whiteknighting and an arrogant, irrational and impatient seller."  if I was being mass attacked and there was no mod present yet, I would not give up any BTC either, be realistic, you can't expect someone to be attacked online on a forum and them give up "IRL" money because the masses (no mods) want it?  

Especially with so many mods having their hands in their own Bitcoin related projects (I mean, that should be a rule, no mod can have Bitcoin related projects on the side, that is just the clearest definition of conflict of interest, however since the start it has been like that from what I can tell, so I say nothing).

No matter what, the situation would have never happened if the funds were secure in the first place.

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Smalleyster
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July 14, 2011, 01:32:01 AM
 #42

Your lack of command of the English language is revolting.

Your lack of decency is revolting.

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July 14, 2011, 01:55:05 AM
 #43

Wait a minute, you didn't pay because you thought nobody in authority was watching? I'm not sure I follow the logic there. I honor my commitments whether third parties are watching me or not. If you really want to be successful with Bitcoin, or with any other business, I highly recommend doing the same. You will find that your reputation is far more powerful than any authority figure.

You continue to see only what you want to see. Your lack of command of the English language is revolting. I didn't pay him because someone needs to teach him a lesson. Now that I know there are people for that job, I will gladly pay him. Authority or someone 'watching me' had nothing to do with it.

Really, you should avoid insulting people. It is not helping your case. At all.

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BitcoinPorn
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July 14, 2011, 02:03:45 AM
 #44

Really, you should avoid insulting people. It is not helping your case. At all.

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Oh no.  I have no exit this thread now, it is getting sad Sad

Smalleyster
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July 14, 2011, 02:15:08 AM
 #45

Your lack of command of the English language is revolting.

Your lack of decency is revolting.

I'm sorry, did you think you deserved any?

The man you scammed deserves decency.

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July 14, 2011, 02:15:55 AM
 #46

Wait a minute, you didn't pay because you thought nobody in authority was watching? I'm not sure I follow the logic there. I honor my commitments whether third parties are watching me or not. If you really want to be successful with Bitcoin, or with any other business, I highly recommend doing the same. You will find that your reputation is far more powerful than any authority figure.

You continue to see only what you want to see. Your lack of command of the English language is revolting. I didn't pay him because someone needs to teach him a lesson. Now that I know there are people for that job, I will gladly pay him. Authority or someone 'watching me' had nothing to do with it.

Really, you should avoid insulting people. It is not helping your case. At all.
What case would that be? The one where you pretend this is a free for all against me? Since when does a dispute between two individuals take away my right to insult people on their arrogance? If this wasn't just a big free for all where everyone mistakenly thought their opinions were golden and sealed my fate away (lol irl), you'd see a much different attitude.

For this particular case, Maged and KeyserSoze are the only ones that matter in this thread, because A) KeyserSoze is the one who will be working with me to make things right and B) because Maged will be working with me to make things right.

What are you doing to make things right? That's what I thought.

If you make things right in this case, that's one thing. That would be necessary to get the "scammer" tag removed from your account, for starters. But you seem to have little or no concern for your reputation. I am advising you against making mistakes which will harm you in future, and you are free to ignore my advice (so far I have seen nothing but contempt), but you should not be surprised when your actions come back to bite you.

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Smalleyster
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July 14, 2011, 02:40:00 AM
 #47

I'll now ignore you.

Damn dood (go ahead insult my use of language now) you must be a pathological liar along with being proven a pompous scammer.


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senbonzakura
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July 14, 2011, 02:53:31 AM
 #48

Bitmole:-


I offer interest free loan. If you want 1 BTC , I will send you right now. You can pay me back after 1 week or 2 weeks, after you sort out your payment issues.

drrussellshane
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July 14, 2011, 02:53:59 AM
 #49

BitMole's diggin' a hole.


 Cheesy

Buy a TREZOR! Premier BTC hardware wallet. If you're reading this, you should probably buy one if you don't already have one. You'll thank me later.
KeyserSoze
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July 14, 2011, 03:18:30 AM
 #50

BitMole's diggin' a hole.
 Cheesy

lol, too funny...

I used to day trade Bitcoin successfully. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
trentzb
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July 14, 2011, 03:27:03 AM
 #51

It seems that you both are in desperate need of an opinion on this matter. Why else would you continue posting back and forth? When litigants introduce a matter into a courtroom (community) they are looking for a decision/judgement from the perspective of the court. If you intended to resolve this matter between yourselves then you wouldn't have brought it to court and it would have been long since settled.

IANAL but I have stood in front of those guys in black robes too many times to remember, in all cases I was plaintiff. I have never lost a case although I did once withdraw a claim when I learned I was in dishonor due to some fine print I had overlooked. My most memorable win was against the only attorney I ever retained (granted he was fresh out of law school, newly licensed) due to a contract breach. Arbitration he lost, unlimited claims superior he lost, trial de novo he lost and I ended up with a writ of execution against him to deliver to the local sheriff for a till tap.

The most important thing I have learned over the years of involvement in litigating civil matters is that it is ALWAYS about the contract, always, always...until of course a jury gets involved and then emotion enters the equation. Judges/magistrates don't rule on emotion, only juries do.

IMHO, if a US judge was to rule on this matter at this VERY moment and with no further evidence he would rule that Bitmole must pay 1 BTC to KS.

HOWEVER, depending on what exclusivity means to each party there could be an alternate ruling. A judge would attempt to determine what exclusivity means to each party and whether there is evidence of agreement of such.

Assuming exclusivity means that Bitmole receives the artwork at the exclusion of any other party and if Bitmole could evidence his claim of agreement of exclusivity (I could not locate evidence of such) Bitmole would not be required to pay KS 1 BTC after this post on 07-11-11 04:31:48pm. One second prior to that post Bitmole was in dishonor and liable to KS and I believe any judge would rule accordingly.

Further, still assuming exclusivity rights, KS became dishonorable at this post 07-11-11 05:41:35pm by making a claim that Bitmole still owes him.

@Bitmole, provide evidence of agreement of exclusivity or else pay KS 1 BTC.

To both, what does exclusivity mean to you and was there agreement of such?
Maged
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July 14, 2011, 03:54:18 AM
 #52

Bitmole:-


I offer interest free loan. If you want 1 BTC , I will send you right now. You can pay me back after 1 week or 2 weeks, after you sort out your payment issues.
Believe it or not, I so thoroughly examined BitMole's post history before I even posted that I was willing to offer this same deal to him should he have come here to post his side. That changed once he said that he refused to pay altogether.

Being new to bitcoin (but not new to IRC, forums, flaming, etc), I have been on the end of attacks since my very first post here. This community is NOT a friendly community. It's almost as if everyone is sitting around looking for an excuse to blast someone for not knowing something. Someone could argue that that's the case on all forums, but frankly speaking, I don't see any place for it on a forum that exists to spread the knowledge and love of Bitcoin.
This is completely unacceptable. In fact, that's why we made the Newbie forum. We found that it was significantly more damaging to newbies to even allow them to post on the normal forum. Unfortunately, if the moderators started deleting personal attacks, people would start crying "CENS0RSH1P!!11!!" and our mods would be overwhelmed. That being said PLEASE report off-topic personal attacks. ALMOST NOBODY is currently using the "Report to moderator" button, and it's making our job of moderation pretty hard.

My personal respect for bitcoin has only grown stronger since I first signed up here, but my opinion of the community here has only soured. The ridiculous amount of newbies running spreadsheets 'games' and calling them 'services', the 30 second startup sites that were obviously made from freetemplates.com, and the endless onslaught of 'experienced' users, trying to say that bitcoin will not be profitable for exactly the purpose that I am in fact using it for. It's been tough to say the least, and I've seriously considered doing everything I'm doing in bitcoin WITHOUT being in this forum.
We hate it too, but the biggest complaint about Bitcoin right now is the lack of businesses. For the moment, we have to take what we get. I pray for the day that we can actually be afforded to have standards for advertising businesses here.

The ONLY reason I have acted this way is because, as someone new to these forums and basically receiving non-stop bullshit from users here, KeyserSoze basically demonstrated to me a reason to give up.
I agree. KeyserSoze was way out of line. Refusing to PM the person you are publicly accusing when you were explicitly asked to? WHAT?!? KeyserSoze was clearly acting in bad faith.

I had NO idea (and arguably no way of knowing) that any mods were paying attention, and felt that the entire job of A) resolving this issue, B) teaching an impatient seller a lesson, and C) dealing with the repercussions, was completely on my shoulder. Now why would I think that? Because I've spent 10+ years on other forums and IRC where how you act becomes who are you known as, and moderators are seldom involved in anything.
I'm surprised that you got that impression. We have one of the most involved moderation teams that I have ever seen. This should have been obvious as soon as you saw a single thread where a mod nonchalantly posted.

KeyserSoze has had a point from the start. He performed a service for which he was not paid. I am at fault for not paying. There has never been a doubt of that in my mind. The LACK of any presence or communication with any moderators of any sort is what brought me to take things into my own hands and make the claim that I wouldn't be paying.
Any ideas of how this can be improved?

I don't care if KeyserSoze thought I was a life long scammer, or that I am an habitual liar, or whatever else he has fabricated. All I care is that I've done what's right-- and until Maged came in here telling me that he had actually been WATCHING this thread from the beginning and that the scammer tag was not just the whim of some trigger happy mod (which is what I am quite used to where I come from), I had felt that the RIGHT thing to do was to defend myself against what seemed to be a bunch of KeyserSoze whiteknighting and an arrogant, irrational and impatient seller.
And I have the notification emails to prove it.

KeyserSoze: Did anyone message you? DId anyone tell you they were investigating/watching/trying to resolve things?
No, nobody did. We tend to keep a hands-off policy when it comes to conflicts. Everything was posted publicly. The only time that I messaged KeyserSoze was to tell him that I reported you to theymos (the only one who has the ability to add the scammer tag) once you refused to pay. The only reason I didn't say that here is because I don't have the authority to say that you would/wouldn't be marked as a scammer. Looking back, I probably should have threatened it. (although I don't know how happy theymos would be if I did that)


I think I know what we need to do to fix the core issues you explained. I think we need to post some official policies regarding reporting scams, and we need to setup an official Bitcoin court, much like the IRC channel.

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July 14, 2011, 03:55:08 AM
 #53

Considering a lack of contract iota

Oh uneducated one, the email is a contract. D'oh!

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senbonzakura
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July 14, 2011, 03:57:41 AM
 #54

IBB - Islamic Bank of Bitcoin , will offer 1 BTC Interest Free Loan to BitMole to be paid back in 2 weeks, if not possible then extension of 2 more weeks given. Enough time to mine on your card / sort out your problems.

Please post your address so I can send payment immediately. Accepting 1 btc (interest-free) loan means you accept the above contract.

Thank you

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July 14, 2011, 03:58:46 AM
 #55


I think I know what we need to do to fix the core issues you explained. I think we need to post some official policies regarding reporting scams, and we need to setup an official Bitcoin court, much like the IRC channel.

Great idea!

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
Smalleyster
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July 14, 2011, 04:01:21 AM
 #56

IBB - Islamic Bank of Bitcoin , will offer 1 BTC Interest Free Loan to BitMole to be paid back in 2 weeks, if not possible then extension of 2 more weeks given. Enough time to mine on your card / sort out your problems.

Please post your address so I can send payment immediately. Accepting 1 btc loan means you accept the above contract.

Thank you

Classic! And classy. lol

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
trentzb
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July 14, 2011, 04:07:27 AM
 #57


Quote from: senbonzakura
Bitmole:-

I offer interest free loan. If you want 1 BTC , I will send you right now. You can pay me back after 1 week or 2 weeks, after you sort out your payment issues.

I publically accept your offer and request that you state your terms clearly so that I may abide by them in a later provable manner as to clear the ridiculous claims against me being a 'scammer' by the less informed and easy to judge members of this community.

@trentzb: Since you obviously have some experience, is there any advice you might have for taking this loan and paying this situation off?


He is serious about the 0% interest loan and I would encourage you to use it. It is for times like these (quick loan to solve an issue) that the IBB will become useful. I happen to be a shareholder in IBB so I am very familiar with IBB principles. Senbonzakura is the managing officer and is making the offer via IBB (Islamic Bank of Bitcoin) as far as I know. Correct me if I am wrong Senbonzakura.

Taking the loan and paying it off is as simple as common sense and honor. Senbonzakura currently sets the terms which sounds like 2 weeks at 0%. Make sure you understand the terms precisely, take it, resolve the issue with KS and pay back the 1 BTC to IBB and you will begin regaining your honor.

Additional advice for future...clarity in contracts Smiley Make sure both you and the other party know exactly what the terms are and perform accordingly. Having a contract in writing is helpful but by no means defines a contract. A written contract is merely evidence of an earlier verbal agreement.

Good luck to you both.
senbonzakura
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July 14, 2011, 04:08:06 AM
 #58

IBB - Islamic Bank of Bitcoin , will offer 1 BTC Interest Free Loan to BitMole to be paid back in 2 weeks, if not possible then extension of 2 more weeks given. Enough time to mine on your card / sort out your problems.

Please post your address so I can send payment immediately. Accepting 1 btc (interest-free) loan means you accept the above contract.

Thank you



1LPKQjnse9s4Xo8BhRzdg55jRh8Yk6goTw

I hereby accept this contract publically and agree to any 'probabation period' for removing the 'scammer' title Theymos might wish to instill until after this loan has been paid off.




Thank you, 1 BTC Loan Sent.

http://blockexplorer.com/address/1LPKQjnse9s4Xo8BhRzdg55jRh8Yk6goTw
Maged
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July 14, 2011, 04:13:20 AM
 #59

Maged: Would it be ridiculous to suggest that there be a formal process of hiring services/etc on this forum? I know that's quite an undertaking, but I wouldn't mind working on the code or whatever else needs to be done. You know, kind of like rent-a-coder or something.
Sadly, it would be ridiculous to suggest that. As I stated, we currently need to have as few hurdles as possible to offer products/services. Maybe at a later point in time.

What we really need is a public template for legally enforcable bitcoin contracts, possibly with (optional, should both parties agree) terms that include Mandatory Binding Arbitration with our Bitcoin Court. It would be great if someone started a bounty for that.

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July 14, 2011, 04:25:35 AM
 #60

Well well well, I am truly Impressed at the apparent progress here.

Truly hope it is a sign of great things to come.

8^)

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
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