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Author Topic: [Dispute resolved and sunshine and beams and all that]  (Read 8663 times)
BitcoinPorn
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July 14, 2011, 08:59:49 PM
 #81

Or maybe he gave it so Bitmole and I would just shutup!  Smiley

*starts stalking cuddlefish*

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KeyserSoze
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July 14, 2011, 09:13:42 PM
 #82

I await op's response to payment and apology.

I did receive payment. We're still negotiating the finality of this episode.

I used to day trade Bitcoin successfully. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
BitcoinPorn
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July 14, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
 #83

I await op's response to payment and apology.

I did receive payment. We're still negotiating the finality of this episode.

I swear to Christ I cannot wait for the shocking conclusion!

BitMole - Keyser

KeyserSoze - Yes you piece of shit cunt

BitMole - Fuck you

KeyserSoze - No Fuck you!

BitMole - ...

BitMole - I'm pregnant.

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July 14, 2011, 09:32:28 PM
 #84

There surely are cultural and regional differences. But I must tell you this.

If, here in UK, I, for example, delay payment of 10£ utility bill by a few days (works just as well for any bill) and the utility company disconnects my electricity and sues me and publishes in a paper that I am a scammer and than tells me that they will retract such a statement as soon as I pay. What do you think would happen? Yep that is right, their lawsuit would be thrown away and laughed at in the court and than they would have to come up with some good money for defamation lawsuit settlement (no sane legal bod would want to defend this in court) and legal bills. Plus a criminal and/or civil case regarding blackmail and extortion would be a distinct possibility.

The example above is rather extreme and blown out of proportion, but hopefully it does illustrate my point.

I thought that Bitmole have been dealt with rather very unjustly, this is why I have chosen to comment on this thread.

Do not expect any design contracts from me (or anyone with a modicum of biz acumen who read this thread, for that matter).

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July 14, 2011, 09:38:47 PM
 #85

Congratulations to all three of you.

I eagerly await the successful conclusion of this ordeal with the re-payment of the loan.


Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
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July 14, 2011, 09:58:15 PM
 #86

Quote from: thread title
[Scam Alert] Bitmole scammed services

The title of this thread should be changed.
KeyserSoze
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July 14, 2011, 10:45:07 PM
 #87

There surely are cultural and regional differences. But I must tell you this.

If, here in UK, I, for example, delay payment of 10£ utility bill by a few days (works just as well for any bill) and the utility company disconnects my electricity and sues me and publishes in a paper that I am a scammer and than tells me that they will retract such a statement as soon as I pay. What do you think would happen? Yep that is right, their lawsuit would be thrown away and laughed at in the court and than they would have to come up with some good money for defamation lawsuit settlement (no sane legal bod would want to defend this in court) and legal bills. Plus a criminal and/or civil case regarding blackmail and extortion would be a distinct possibility.

The example above is rather extreme and blown out of proportion, but hopefully it does illustrate my point.

I thought that Bitmole have been dealt with rather very unjustly, this is why I have chosen to comment on this thread.

Do not expect any design contracts from me (or anyone with a modicum of biz acumen who read this thread, for that matter).

I hear you. Thanks for your candid response. It's nice to read other viewpoints. While you've written me off, I have seen your posts elsewhere and they seem fairly level-headed even if I haven't always agreed. Thanks for your input and good luck with your mining business.

I used to day trade Bitcoin successfully. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
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July 14, 2011, 11:41:29 PM
 #88

If, here in UK, I, for example, delay payment of 10£ utility bill by a few days (works just as well for any bill) and the utility company disconnects my electricity and sues me and publishes in a paper that I am a scammer and than tells me that they will retract such a statement as soon as I pay. What do you think would happen?

How so?  Is truth not a defense to defamation in the UK?  If they sue you, is a lawsuit not a public record in the UK?

If instead of delaying your utility payment, you openly assert that you intend to not pay for the electricity you admit you used... perhaps the power wasn't as "clean" as you thought it should be, and you felt that entitled you to consume it for free.  Would it still be exactly the same defamation?

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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July 15, 2011, 12:52:41 AM
 #89

The thread shows the need for a dispute resolution company instead of airing dirty linen in public and the hint of blackmail.

Signed contracts and arbitration would go a long way to avoiding hasty decisions.

casascius
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July 15, 2011, 03:17:58 AM
 #90

3) Bitmole communicated intentions to pay, but due to a difficulty, a bit late
4) KeyserSoze jumped to conclusions and committed libel as well as released the product to the public with a statement to 'abuse it'.


Here is the part I have a problem with.  When it is 1 BTC, I don't buy the excuse that the person can't afford to pay me.  If they need a week to come up with 1 BTC or equivalent, I would feel rightful in thinking I was scammed as well.  Who doesn't have $14 and hires out art in good faith?

Anyway, if someone owed me 1 BTC, any of the following responses would have been acceptable to me.

"I am having trouble coming up with 1 BTC.  Can I pay you with PayPal USD instead?"

"I am having trouble coming up with 1 BTC.  I thought I would have mined it by now, but it didn't work out.  Can you give me 6 days?  That is how long it will take me to mine it at current difficulty.  I just sent you the 0.15 BTC I have mined so far."

"I am having trouble coming up with 1 BTC.  Look, I am broke, and made a misjudgment in my ability to pay.  I still owe you and will pay you as soon as I can.  I am giving you a lifetime unlimited (or credit or whatever) account in the game I'm using this artwork for.  In the meantime, can I do anything for you, like advertise your services in my signature line?"


Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
BitcoinPorn
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July 15, 2011, 03:31:13 AM
 #91

I don't buy the excuse that the person can't afford to pay me.  If they need a week to come up with 1 BTC or equivalent, I would feel rightful in thinking I was scammed as well.  Who doesn't have $14 and hires out art in good faith?
I would say the majority of users on this forum.

casascius
Mike Caldwell
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July 15, 2011, 03:44:35 AM
 #92

I don't buy the excuse that the person can't afford to pay me.  If they need a week to come up with 1 BTC or equivalent, I would feel rightful in thinking I was scammed as well.  Who doesn't have $14 and hires out art in good faith?
I would say the majority of users on this forum.

I get not having $14, but the majority of users on this forum are looking to buy art services?

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
casascius
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July 15, 2011, 04:22:38 AM
 #93

Are you so rich in BTC that you forgot that its not normal currency? My job does not pay me in BTC-- yet ^_-

This sort of sarcasm would lead me to believe you were a scammer if I were in his shoes.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
BitcoinPorn
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July 15, 2011, 04:32:28 AM
 #94

This sort of sarcasm would lead me to believe you were a scammer if I were in his shoes.
I have learned that people who code and program are some of the most curt people, anywhere.  I use the word curt even though I think I mean rude.   Ignoring this thread, you can find people being quite sharp, witty, and assholes to each other at every chance they get.   I think some kind of pissing contest is going on but I'm not sure the prize other than to scare away newcomers and to never solve any issues (I am really not talking about this thread with this btw, this is epic shit here people being mature and resolving something, half of me wants everyone to be happy about agreements being made and etc, but the other half is like 'oh wait, this is how people should act')

KeyserSoze
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July 15, 2011, 05:24:31 AM
 #95

This sort of sarcasm would lead me to believe you were a scammer if I were in his shoes.
I have learned that people who code and program are some of the most curt people, anywhere.  I use the word curt even though I think I mean rude.   Ignoring this thread, you can find people being quite sharp, witty, and assholes to each other at every chance they get.   I think some kind of pissing contest is going on but I'm not sure the prize other than to scare away newcomers and to never solve any issues (I am really not talking about this thread with this btw, this is epic shit here people being mature and resolving something, half of me wants everyone to be happy about agreements being made and etc, but the other half is like 'oh wait, this is how people should act')

Many people involved in bitcoin are "computer people" because that kind of comfort with technology is pretty much a necessity to get involved with it. "Computer people" are well known to not have the best social skills. So one could safely assume this forum would be chock full o' folks lacking social grace.

I used to day trade Bitcoin successfully. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
BitcoinPorn
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July 15, 2011, 05:30:27 AM
 #96

Many people involved in bitcoin are "computer people" because that kind of comfort with technology is pretty much a necessity to get involved with it. "Computer people" are well known to not have the best social skills. So one could safely assume this forum would be chock full o' folks lacking social grace.

Safe to assume, I think it is just forgotten in the heat of moments (and honestly doesn't matter, people should be understanding of each other, but at a certain point once you break respect with someone, it's over for the most part, glad to see it gone down to 'meh' levels here).

This thread sucks btw everyone, because I was elsewhere online just minutes ago, this stupid crap came up, and I felt I should copy and paste it lol

1. Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

3. Don’t Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.”

Vladimir
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July 15, 2011, 06:42:55 AM
 #97

If, here in UK, I, for example, delay payment of 10£ utility bill by a few days (works just as well for any bill) and the utility company disconnects my electricity and sues me and publishes in a paper that I am a scammer and than tells me that they will retract such a statement as soon as I pay. What do you think would happen?

How so?  Is truth not a defense to defamation in the UK?  If they sue you, is a lawsuit not a public record in the UK?

If instead of delaying your utility payment, you openly assert that you intend to not pay for the electricity you admit you used... perhaps the power wasn't as "clean" as you thought it should be, and you felt that entitled you to consume it for free.  Would it still be exactly the same defamation?

We are getting into a rather too fine details (for this thread) and in foreign for you jurisdiction. But let me assure you that my points are fairly accurate from legal point of view and while IANAL I know what I am talking about (with plenty of practical experience of litigation particularly in contract law, consumer credit and housing areas).

The only thing they would be able to sue me in my scenario is 10£ plus 0.01£ or so in interest and this would be thrown out on technicalities (such as very relevant for us failure to follow pre-action protocol 'letter before action' etc...). Actually, before it get's thrown out the judge would give parties a chance to settle the matter amicably. However, in the described scenario my reasonable counterclaim would worth tens of thousands of pounds and at the settlement negotiation we would be discussing how much they pay me.

Of course, the scenario in original example is unlikely to happen because utility companies kind of do know what they are doing (most of the time) and they would not act along KeyserSoze's lines in the first place.


I do not want to go into further details here...

Anyway, seems like parties are close to settling this matter amicably, good for you.

Next time before jumping on anyone over some petty (or not) reason here or IRL do communicate, people, please.

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July 15, 2011, 07:45:19 PM
 #98

this might be the thread of the year Smiley so classic!
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July 16, 2011, 10:23:58 PM
 #99

let's say you are making 0.26 BTC per day (0.52 / 2).

0.26 * 30 = 7.8 BTC

7.8 BTC * US$14.00 = US$109.20 per month
senbonzakura
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July 17, 2011, 05:29:12 AM
 #100

UPDATE: Finally earned 1 BTC through mining (+1 triplemining and 5850).

Sending 1 BTC to senbonzakura.

Payment received thank you, contract fulfilled. Thank you for using IBB's Interest FREE Loan. Hope you can use our service again in the future.

 Cheesy
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