|
|
acoindr
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
|
 |
August 26, 2013, 10:00:37 PM
Last edit: August 26, 2013, 10:10:44 PM by acoindr |
|
This makes no sense. According to your own story you mailed the money order 8/17/13. It has not even been ten days since you put it in the mail (on Saturday no less) and you're threatening a lawsuit?!? I also clicked on some of those "complaint" links you posted. I couldn't find a single thread that had an unresolved issue from people with long term forum accounts. This is the worst I could find and it seems to be only a problem with their ticketing system: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279594.0Other threads are from 2012 which is a lifetime in Bitcoin time. I was here when CampBX first launched. In fact, they are one of the oldest surviving Bitcoin exchanges besides Mt.Gox. Others were either scams or went out of business from being hacked etc. CampBX made security a focus from day one, and they have never been hacked. I have also dealt with them for a long time and had no problem. CampBX is a business like any other and no business will be perfect from the perspective of every customer. I'm tempted to give you $1500 myself if you promise to leave the Bitcoin community and not come back for 10 years, until all businesses with enough problems fighting against over burdensome regulations can do so and still flawlessly meet the expectations of every individual that signs up. |
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:18:17 PM
Last edit: August 26, 2013, 10:28:27 PM by DealMaker |
|
This makes no sense. According to your own story you mailed the money order 8/17/13. It has not even been ten days since you put it in the mail (on Saturday no less) and you're threatening a lawsuit?!? I also clicked on some of those "complaint" links you posted. I couldn't find a single thread that had an unresolved issue from people with long term forum accounts. This is the worst I could find and it seems to be only a problem with their ticketing system: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279594.0Other threads are from 2012 which is a lifetime in Bitcoin time. I was here when CampBX first launched. In fact, they are one of the oldest surviving Bitcoin exchanges besides Mt.Gox. Others were either scams or went out of business from being hacked etc. CampBX made security a focus from day one, and they have never been hacked. I have also dealt with them for a long time and had no problem. CampBX is a business like any other and no business will be perfect from the perspective of every customer. I'm tempted to give you $1500 myself if you promise to leave the Bitcoin community and not come back for 10 years, until all businesses with enough problems fighting against over burdensome regulations can do so and still flawlessly meet the expectations of every individual that signs up. Actually my timeframes are on point. You're not reading them correctly(or at all as is obvious by your statements) and in addition I've documented clearly and extensively what's going on. I've not left any details out. In addition I have pointed out I run a business. I do not know any business that functions properly and makes profits on " whatifs", " maybe" and " should be". This is common sense, if you do not have common sense I cannot help you come to this realization. It's interesting how you and the other clown attempting to attack me don't actually attack the facts but, completely ignore them as well(just like Keyur). Because if you did you would notice that the link that you claim to be the only one; is exactly the same problem I'm having. Then after I started posting in threads complaining about your ring leader, he then decides to FINALLY answer the guy! Why aren't you attacking Keyur for not doing what he said? Why are you ignoring the facts of the matter? Are you working for Keyur and attempting to try and "smear" or "discredit" me with irrelevant questions that are off-topic and avoiding of the actual issue at hand?Please do continue to attack me for standing up for myself, it certifies that I'm on the right path. |
|
|
|
|
acoindr
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:26:32 PM |
|
Actually my timeframes are on point. You're not reading them correctly ...
This is a quote from you from your thread here (from the 7th paragraph): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278973.0I mailed the money order on 8/17/2013 (a Saturday I know), considering I have co-workers in Georgia and actually very near to their offices I knew the delivery time and also knew it would arrive no later than Monday afternoon from where I mailed it (I'm only 2 states away). What did I misread? Please do continue to attack me for standing up for myself, it certifies that I'm on the right path.
Where did I attack you? |
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:35:56 PM |
|
Actually my timeframes are on point. You're not reading them correctly ...
This is a quote from you from your thread here (from the 7th paragraph): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278973.0I mailed the money order on 8/17/2013 (a Saturday I know), considering I have co-workers in Georgia and actually very near to their offices I knew the delivery time and also knew it would arrive no later than Monday afternoon from where I mailed it (I'm only 2 states away). What did I misread? Please do continue to attack me for standing up for myself, it certifies that I'm on the right path.
Where did I attack you? This makes no sense. According to your own story you mailed the money order 8/17/13. It has not even been ten days since you put it in the mail (on Saturday no less) and you're threatening a lawsuit?!? Telling me it makes no sense, is an attack at attempting to discredit me. Yes I wrote that to establish timeline matching using what most call a "calendar". However irregardless of that I also posted the information to the fact that those MOs were actually cashed on Aug 22, 2013. -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281670.0 (Which is titled "most recent event" of the 1st post of this thread oh but, you read that to right..) So again you are obviously not reading my thread in it's entirety. I didn't have to give the ten days, it's already there and CASHED. Since you didn't read anything I'll summarize that I had informed people who were actually reading my thread that I sent the MO and I even pasted a link to the support page of campbx in which he states further information (not available on the main campbx.com website) about the MO timeframes. Therefore he is the one who cashed it and has it in his bank account right now and has not credited at the very least my account since having cashed it on 8/22/13 which is 3 business days ago AFTER receipt, AND after cashing it. Oh but, wait you know all this don't you because you read what I said...NOT. Does it make sense now? |
|
|
|
|
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:41:17 PM |
|
Their terms are vague but they don't state your account will be credited the day the MO is "cashed" (more likely deposited for a business account). CampBX should be clear and upfront about their funding policies but I seriously doubt they credit deposited MO the same day. Thank our antiquated and insecure banking system. It is pretty easy for money orders to be faked. It is simply a piece of paper with numbers on it and there is no way to validate a check has been authorized other than depositing it. The bank then transmits it to the originating bank and the account holder (the MO issuer) will reject the unathorized ones (fakes, duplicates, etc). The receiving bank is liable in the event of a reversal until 5 days pass with no notification from the originiating bank. Simple version: A MO or any other check can be fake and the only way to know is for it to not be returned after 5 business days. I wouldn't expect them to credit your account until the 29th. CampBX FAQ is vague as it simply indicates that money orders are "processed" the next day it doesn't say your account will be credited that day. It doesn't provide any guidance on when your account will be credited. They likely are hoping users assume that means funds will be credited to their account the next day but I doubt that is the case as it opens them up to pretty easy fraud. Please send your money orders to Bulbul Investments LLC at 13010 Morris Rd, Bldg 1 Suite 600, Alpharetta, GA, 30004 and provide your CampBX login name and email address in the "Notes" section. Mail can take 3-9 business days to reach our office, so please be patient. Our treasurer processes all money orders next business day of receiving them.
More information about USPS Money Orders is available here: USPS.com There is a legit complain that CampBX should improve their website to make it clear exactly how long it will take before users have funds credited to their account. Then again I can't believe they even accept checks (and yes a MO is a check it just happens to be a check from a trusted party). Maybe after this "lawsuit, arrest and criminal charges" they will realize it isn't worth it and drop that deposit option. |
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:47:13 PM |
|
CampBX should be clear and upfront about their funding policies but it is pretty common for money orders to be faked. There is no method to authenticate them other than depositing them and waiting for a possible reversal. It generally takes 5 business days before a check can be considered good (and MO is simply a check issued by a trusted party). I would expect they won't credit your account until the 29th.
Once again if CampBX is vague or unclear on how long checks take to clear this isn't an excuse for that and they should provide more accurate expectation on how long it takes before funds clear. That being said I can't believe they even accept checks. Maybe after this "lawsuit, arrest and criminal charges" they will realize it isn't worth it.
Agreed +1 However I did not send fake MOs. In fact I posted the receipt numbers for ANYONE to call in and verify that they were cashed on 8/22/13. That link to the info is under the heading "most recent event". As anyone can tell and verify that number is owned by Moneygram, those receipt #s are genuine, 100% authentic. I have tried everything possible in contacting these people and even making noise here as loud as possible, they still ignored me and still haven't corrected it and worse yet they've cashed my MOs without crediting my account for a single cent. That's theft in my book unless taking someone's money and not doing what was promised is called something else. Yes I realize what you're saying as well in regards to the 5 days because I've had that also. I've also had bank accounts that did it in 3 which is what I believe happened here. However since I'm being ignored, and the website is as you noticed, well as it is, then I'm out here left in the dark. I realize if there is that 5 day deal, however at the very least a detailed, non-vague response would be greatly, appreciated and accepted. You've seen the single answer I got in regards to my verification and it was just as vague as the one and only response I got from their helpdesk. I was told to also resend a ticket request, fine so I did about 120+ times. Sure that was a bit much, but costing me $1000 in measurable losses is to isn't it? |
|
|
|
|
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:53:40 PM |
|
However I did not send fake MOs. In fact I posted the receipt numbers for ANYONE to call in and verify that they were cashed on 8/22/13. That link to the info is under the heading "most recent event". As anyone can tell and verify that number is owned by Moneygram, those receipt #s are genuine, 100% authentic. I have tried everything possible in contacting these people and even making noise here as loud as possible, they still ignored me and still haven't corrected it and worse yet they've cashed my MOs without crediting my account for a single cent. That's theft in my book unless taking someone's money and not doing what was promised is called something else. I wasn't saying YOU sent a fake MO but someone can and if CampBX gets 1000 MO a year and credits them all on the day received they are going to get burned. There is no way to know the fake ones from the legit ones. Calling the 1-800 number or providing a receipt is a useless security measure. One can simply copy a legit money order, cash the legit one, and send the fake to the victim. Think of it like a double spend in Bitcoin except one is legit and one is fake and the fake one always loses so it is easier to pull off. The US banking system sucks, and checks are the suckiest portion of that suck system. There is absolutely no good way to validate a check will be honored other than deposit it, and wait 5 business days. That is it. Yup we live in the 21st century and the best the banking industry can come up with is deposit this piece of paper and if it isn't rejected in five days you are good. |
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:57:49 PM |
|
I wasn't saying YOU sent a fake MO but someone can and if CampBX gets 1000 MO a year and credits them all on the day received they are going to get burned. There is no way to know the fake ones from the legit ones.
Calling the 1-800 number or providing a receipt is a useless security measure. One can simply copy a legit money order, cash the legit one, and send the fake to the victim.
The US banking system sucks, and checks are the suckiest of the suckiest portion of that system. There is absolutely no real security on them other than deposit, it and wait 5 business days. If it isn't returned in 5 business days it is "good" (well maybe not but the depositor is no longer liable).
Keep in mind to copy them there is a seal, watermark, etc so that method is not as easy as you state. Also not very realistic for someone like myself who's sent his personal information to this Campbx and in addition who's actually trying to conduct legitimate business. I got ya, I was just putting it out there that I could prove it was real. You're right though that scenario is possible but, exceedingly rare. However in my situation all the dates, amounts, timeframes match up 100% (I'm just saying this for anyone reading that it can be proven that the MO is yours as long as these specifics match). I used to take checks for my business... In all honesty Bitcoin WAS going to replace that. At this juncture I can't see that happening with people like Keyur @ Campbx driving the boat. I see also why the govt wants to get in on the "regulation" action, major career boosters with people Keyur not doing things properly because prosecution for this kind of negligence/fraud/mishandling is beyond easy. Especially with the fact that courts are now legally allowed to use information from public forums such as this for evidence. |
|
|
|
|
acoindr
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
|
|
August 26, 2013, 10:59:07 PM |
|
This makes no sense. According to your own story you mailed the money order 8/17/13. It has not even been ten days since you put it in the mail (on Saturday no less) and you're threatening a lawsuit?!? Telling me it makes no sense, is an attack at attempting to discredit me. That's not an attack. That's giving my assessment, which I stick to. As for discrediting someone that seems to be what you're trying to do to CampBX by pulling up threads from 2012 like this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113365.0Yes I wrote that to establish timeline matching using what most call a "calendar".
What are you trying to say? Believe me I've been restraining myself from attacking you which you would have no doubt about when done. Like I said, you said you mailed it on 8/17/13. Today is 8/26/13. According to math and dates that is less than ten days. Ten a number right after nine BTW, so that's less than ten days after you yourself said you mailed the MO, and you're threatening a lawsuit. Businesses have different processes for crediting accounts and updating internal books. These may not always be what the customer imagines. I'm not saying CampBX has provided stellar service regarding your particular issue, but threatening them with lawsuit, arrest, and criminal charges over $1,500 in limbo under 10 days seems a real over reaction. |
|
|
|
|
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:01:04 PM |
|
I got ya, I was just putting it out there that I could prove it was real. That is the problem. You CAN'T prove it is real. The only proof if depositing the check and waiting 5 business days. There is no other proof the MO/check won't be returned. Still CampBX is at fault for not clearing (as in in black and white unambiguous statements) specifying when the funds will be credited to the account. Nobody is going to credit same day MO (or they won't be in business long) but customers should know going in that it is going to take 2-3 business days for the check to arrive and another five business days for the check to clear. |
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:10:03 PM |
|
This makes no sense. According to your own story you mailed the money order 8/17/13. It has not even been ten days since you put it in the mail (on Saturday no less) and you're threatening a lawsuit?!? Telling me it makes no sense, is an attack at attempting to discredit me. That's not an attack. That's giving my assessment, which I stick to. As for discrediting someone that seems to be what you're trying to do to CampBX by pulling up threads from 2012 like this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113365.0Yes I wrote that to establish timeline matching using what most call a "calendar".
What are you trying to say? Believe me I've been restraining myself from attacking you which you would have no doubt about when done. Like I said, you said you mailed it on 8/17/13. Today is 8/26/13. According to math and dates that is less than ten days. Ten a number right after nine BTW, so that's less than ten days after you yourself said you mailed the MO, and you're threatening a lawsuit. Businesses have different processes for crediting accounts and updating internal books. These may not always be what the customer imagines. I'm not saying CampBX has provided stellar service regarding your particular issue, but threatening them with lawsuit, arrest, and criminal charges over $1,500 in limbo under 10 days seems a real over reaction. So you found one link, that should tell you that if they're still having these same kinds of problems in 2013 there's a serious issue. However you seem determined to ignore issues other than directing ignorance towards someone who finally yelled really loud on here about this (instead of adding just another thread to be ignored for weeks on end like everyone else). Don't restrain yourself, because I'm not going to argue with you about any emotional viewpoints you have. Because from a distance no one will be able to tell who's the fool as easily as they can right now. Continue to ignore facts, when I mailed it has now become irrelevant because the mailing is when the person has it. Using the excuse of "it's in the mail" is not applicable. Therefore when you come to the realization that this person has cashed the MO and now has the funds it would be logical to expect my account to reflect such a fact. My account does not reflect this fact. You are correct things are not always what people imagine them to be. However I'm not imagining what I read, and what anyone else can read on Campbx's website. Since that's all I have to go by, isn't that what I should expect? Since I have a business to run should I expect my customers to put their businesses on hold because of someone lieing/ignoring me? Or should I take appropiate actions to show my business customers I'm not going to allow this to happen and I will do my duty as I'm supposed to ethically and professionally? Or should I just ignore them to? How about you do send me that $1500 and I'll be done with this and be on my way with the other exchanges that don't do this crap?!?!?!? I told you and I can prove this effortlessly to any Judge, that I'm losing a minimum of $1000/day because of this person's actions. I don't have to explain myself but, I've done everything required of me as a customer. I only expect it to be reciprocal just like everyone else. |
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:15:44 PM |
|
I got ya, I was just putting it out there that I could prove it was real. That is the problem. You CAN'T prove it is real. The only proof if depositing the check and waiting 5 business days. There is no other proof the MO/check won't be returned. Still CampBX is at fault for not clearing (as in in black and white unambiguous statements) specifying when the funds will be credited to the account. Nobody is going to credit same day MO (or they won't be in business long) but customers should know going in that it is going to take 2-3 business days for the check to arrive and another five business days for the check to clear. Actually that is NOT the problem I CAN prove it's real. YOU are deciding it's not and are trying to lead the reader into that territory with nonsense of which you can't even prove factually as I have and as I continue to do. Seriously let that implication go, I can prove this 5 ways from Sunday not only with the actual MO receipt but, the ACTUAL STORE receipt I got from where I sent it. I seriously doubt any of those corporations are going to help me on any level fake any information. Again dates, times, etc match up. I put the info out there for anyone/everyone to review. The Judge, the Feds and anyone else in Law will know it's real which is all that matters. |
|
|
|
|
acoindr
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:18:42 PM |
|
Don't restrain yourself, because I'm not going to argue with you about any emotional viewpoints you have. Because from a distance no one will be able to tell who's the fool as easily as they can right now.
Well, at least there is one thing we can agree on. |
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:21:55 PM |
|
Don't restrain yourself, because I'm not going to argue with you about any emotional viewpoints you have. Because from a distance no one will be able to tell who's the fool as easily as they can right now.
Well, at least there is one thing we can agree on. Then stick to the facts and tell me logically why I should not have expectations of the right thing and why I should not sue someone who's causing me $1000/day in loss past timeframes established by his own writing. If I sit back and wait then it's really going to be my fault for doing nothing in the first place, and especially for letting it drag on when I get absolutely no response. |
|
|
|
|
acoindr
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:31:26 PM |
|
Don't restrain yourself, because I'm not going to argue with you about any emotional viewpoints you have. Because from a distance no one will be able to tell who's the fool as easily as they can right now.
Well, at least there is one thing we can agree on. Then stick to the facts and tell me logically why I should not have expectations of the right thing and why I should not sue someone who's causing me $1000/day in loss past timeframes established by his own writing. If I sit back and wait then it's really going to be my fault for doing nothing in the first place, and especially for letting it drag on when I get absolutely no response. DeathAndTaxes already tried to explain logically why the situation can be delayed from CampBX's perspective, but you don't seem to understand what he's saying. Instead you seem to be interested only in your side of the story and your expectations. Anything that runs counter to that is met with hostility. That kind of thing won't work well with this fledgling Bitcoin community/economy that's trying to survive and grow. |
|
|
|
|
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:33:37 PM
Last edit: August 26, 2013, 11:47:14 PM by DeathAndTaxes |
|
I never said it wasn't real, I have no reason to doubt (or care) that the money order is real. I said you can't PROVE it is real. It is possible for both statements to be true at the same time.
The situation:
a) the money order is real (will not be returned).
b) you can not prove the money order is real (it will not be returned).
c) the only way to prove the money is real (will not be returned) is to deposit it and wait.
d) CampBX should clearly indicate how long they will hold client checks.
Likewise:
a) the Bitcoin transaction is valid (won't be double spent)
b) you can't prove the Bitcoin transaction is valid (won't be double spent)
c) the only way to prove the Bitcoin transaction is valid (won't be double spent) is to include it in a block and wait.
d) Merchants should clearly indicate how many confirmations they will require.
I haven't attacked you. I even said CampBX is 100% wrong for not making their deposit terms clear. CampBX should explicitly state in unambiguous terms how many business days it will take before funds are credited to a client's account after depositing a check received by the client. If you see everything as an attack maybe that is the problem.
|
|
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 26, 2013, 11:45:18 PM |
|
I just want what I paid for.
Thanks for everyone's input.
|
|
|
|
|
|
bitcoiner49er
|
|
August 27, 2013, 02:32:20 PM |
|
I haven't attacked you. I even said CampBX is 100% wrong for not making their deposit terms clear. CampBX should explicitly state in unambiguous terms how many business days it will take before funds are credited to a client's account after depositing a check received by the client. If you see everything as an attack maybe that is the problem.
This. |
Homo doctus is se semper divitias habet
|
|
|
DealMaker (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
August 27, 2013, 02:49:35 PM |
|
I haven't attacked you. I even said CampBX is 100% wrong for not making their deposit terms clear. CampBX should explicitly state in unambiguous terms how many business days it will take before funds are credited to a client's account after depositing a check received by the client. If you see everything as an attack maybe that is the problem.
This. And that. Doesn't matter. I'm upset because I've been done wrong by following the man's written words on his website. So instead of you questioning his procedures, ethics, you want to scrutinize my reactions to being messed with in an unprofessional way. Not everyone reacts the same way to problems, as you get older you'll learn this. If you are of a certain age where this wisdom becomes learned then you need to learn to be more tolerant of someone's problems. I responded to several folks on here that also had the same issues, I did not criticize them or their expectations of business conduct. So now I'm not following some sort of "victim etiquette" I guess, and I never will. I'll say it again, if Keyur's website is going to say one thing and he's actually going to do another, you, me or anyone on this planet cannot fairly get upset at the "victim" for following what Keyur said he would do. Unless somehow, magically it's my fault Keyur wrote that, then it's also my fault that he's ignoring me, also my fault that he's not depositing my money he cashed on 8/22, also not my fault he didn't verify my account on the 5th or even the 6th or even now the 9th business day as of this writing. Yes it's all my fault because I believed what Keyur wrote on his website and I followed that. I sincerely wonder if a court of Law would also believe it's my fault for following those written, documented instructions. |
|
|
|
|
|
